Golf Shaft Length

JB

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I do have a question.When TM built this club at 44 or so inches,Did they alter SW to bring it back up or did they just leave it? Guess the question is "Do both clubs have the same SW or close or way off?"
 
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Please explain further.
 
I think BigLeftyinAZ was wondering if TM made both drivers the same swingweight.

Great article JB, and very interesting. I personally have had good success with a 44" driver, but I don't know if it's because I have a better, heavier shaft in it now, or because I shortened it 2".
 
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The swing weight is close. They said they altered it to get it close to the same.
 
Well, with almost everything being equal with the two drivers, the testing seems to contradict what Tom Wishon has been saying for many years - that shorter drivers are generally easier to hit and because of that, get the same and in some cases, better distance than longer drivers.

I'm curious though - did you ask any of the testers what the length of their own personal drivers were? If they played longer drivers, perhaps they hit the longer TM R9's better because they were "used to" that length? :confused2:
 
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Not one person in our testing had a driver shorter than 45". I did think the accuracy was increased with the shorter driver, just not as much as we thought it would be.
 
Great article, pretty much the results I expected, though the difference in the high handicppers length was much greater than I expected.
 
Not one person in our testing had a driver shorter than 45". I did think the accuracy was increased with the shorter driver, just not as much as we thought it would be.

Golf is a game in inches and yards. Be silly not to pick the driver that would obtain more fairways for you.
 
I have a long driver, almost 2 inches longer than standard, I hit it in the middle some days others not so well. I have a shorter standard length driver, I hit it in the middle some days some days not. Shots hit with the shorter standard length driver are on average about 20 -25 yards short of the longer driver. The problem is I try to get more distance out of the shorter driver by swinging harder when I get warmed up and end up hitting a few really bad shots. On average, the longer driver is more accurate for me, I get more distance with less effort and I can get over those fairway bunkers and not have to worry about going around them on one side or the other.
 
Interesting results. It seems that your article basically confirmed that in general, longer drivers are less accurate, but not by as much as everyone has assumed.

There were two things mentioned that I think are significant and one of them begged a followup question that was not asked. The first was the statement from TaylorMade that "Tour players have always averaged slightly shorter than the market."

The very next thing out of my mouth would have been, "Why is that?"

The second thing was the results of your low handicap players about whom you wrote, "The two players that did not have the same results were two of our low handicap players that experienced a little more accuracy with the shorter driver..."

I believe that those results combined with TaylorMade's comments about tour players point to a common denominator which is that shorter driver shaft length tends to go hand in hand with high-level skill. I think that in and of itself would be an interesting topic of research.

I would still like to see how all of these people fare over the course of a season and see how the test numbers stack up against whatever numbers they'd generate during regular play and real-world situations as opposed to a controlled environment test such as this.

From a scientific point of view, I think that your article certainly points out some interesting issues regarding what has been believed versus what appears to be true. While it certainly seems to debunk some myths, it does however affirm some opinions as well and though I think it sheds some new light on an old debate, it doesn't quite put that debate to rest.


-JP
 
There were two things mentioned that I think are significant and one of them begged a followup question that was not asked. The first was the statement from TaylorMade that "Tour players have always averaged slightly shorter than the market."

The very next thing out of my mouth would have been, "Why is that?"

I actually wondered the same thing, and was hoping to get the answer to that as well.
 
I disagree a tad about tour players choose shorter length drivers because of accuracy. While in general that is true, they play shorter length because they are fit for them and that is what the entire article says. Tour players do not just play shorter shafts because of accuracy and what they hear. They get fitted for the proper shaft. Both players we spoke to play shafts longer than 45".

It is much easier to trim a driver according to everybody we spoke to than to add length. So in that case, why not sell them longer and then when a person is fit, they can cut them down. That is what both companies seem to be preaching. That sure you can gain distance with the longer driver, but get fit properly and in full and see what the results are.

For my wife for instance, she gained both distance and accuracy with a longer shaft. Most high handicapped players lost very little accuracy and gained crucial distance with the longer driver. People should NOT emulate what is done on tour or by players that are not at their skill level. What works for someone on tour will NOT work for someone that is a 28 handicap. Most players that golf on the weekends are high handicappers not tour players. In the end when looking back at the testing we had done, it was the high handicappers that got more distance and better control from the longer driver despite what many experts said.
 
I would still like to see how all of these people fare over the course of a season and see how the test numbers stack up against whatever numbers they'd generate during regular play and real-world situations as opposed to a controlled environment test such as this.

In a perfect world, that would be ideal JP, but I thought there were only two drivers, and I'm sure they had to be returned at some point.


JB: I did not notice that it said what shaft was used, only that everyone used the same shaft. More important to me than the brand of the shaft is what was the flex of the shaft? And would different handicap levels benefit from different shaft flexes?
 
In a perfect world, that would be ideal JP, but I thought there were only two drivers, and I'm sure they had to be returned at some point.

That is exactly it Smallie. No company in their right mind is going to give out 24 drivers and say "go play for a season" and chart everything". Lets be real.

JB: I did not notice that it said what shaft was used, only that everyone used the same shaft. More important to me than the brand of the shaft is what was the flex of the shaft? And would different handicap levels benefit from different shaft flexes?

Standard stock which is the Fujikura Motore.
 
I have three stock OEM drivers that are 44", 45', and 46". All are identical except of course, for their shaft length. Just as in you test, the the longer 46" shaft gives me more distance with less accuracy than the shorter 44" shaft. With me, the distances are not that far off from each other, maybe 15+/- yards difference between the three, and dispersion is about the same. Of these three, the 46" club is the hardest to get use to hitting decent drives with. Now I have a component driver, built to my specs that is 45" long, which is my best friend of the four, when it comes to length, and accuracy. None of the 4 swing weights are the same, but close enough with each other that I don't notice the difference.

Now I have a little critter I threw together while just messing around one day. It's a 460cc, 8.5* loft driver head, attached to a 34" shaft. I can putt pretty well with this club, and have even use it as a gag item in charity tournaments. But, if I were to hit a ball with a full swing, distance is about 150 yards with a very low, worm burning trajectory, with poor accuracy. :clapp:
 
I went to a bigbox type store a couple of day's ago and talked to the owner/pro about this very thing. My goal was to be fitted for my R9. As I am only 5'6" and 155 lb's, along with turning 50 very soon, I'm looking for anything that can add some length.

He suggested that my original driver length is the way to go. After putting me on a swing monitor he showed me that I hit 10 shots in a row, after warming up, 230 to 238 with a slight draw. Every shot was left of center and all stayed almost exactly on the same path. (Pretty typical of what I see on the course)

Then he tweaked my swing by scooting the ball a few inches forward and softening my grip. Felt really strange having the ball that far forward, but he explained he wanted me to try a few hitting the ball on an upward swing path. It took me a few swings and then I had 4 or 5 in a row that were all in the 250 yrd plus range. I hit two over 260 yrds. (wow, lol). He showed me that my actual swing speed was only 88 to 90, but not to consentrate on that. My angle changed from like 11 degrees to 13 and up which got me more heigth and more distance.

So now my question is, does this work on the course? I can see times where wind or softer fairways might hamper this some? Also, I did loose some accuracy. I had some issues of hooking which may have been the softer grip?

Any idea's as it relates to your test's of longer shafts? Great test by the way and great timing.
 
Ball position plays a huge role in the outcome of your shot. Maybe as much as anything else. Try it on the range and watch for different ball flights.
 
I disagree a tad about tour players choose shorter length drivers because of accuracy. While in general that is true, they play shorter length because they are fit for them and that is what the entire article says. Tour players do not just play shorter shafts because of accuracy and what they hear. They get fitted for the proper shaft. Both players we spoke to play shafts longer than 45".

It is much easier to trim a driver according to everybody we spoke to than to add length. So in that case, why not sell them longer and then when a person is fit, they can cut them down. That is what both companies seem to be preaching. That sure you can gain distance with the longer driver, but get fit properly and in full and see what the results are.

For my wife for instance, she gained both distance and accuracy with a longer shaft. Most high handicapped players lost very little accuracy and gained crucial distance with the longer driver. People should NOT emulate what is done on tour or by players that are not at their skill level. What works for someone on tour will NOT work for someone that is a 28 handicap. Most players that golf on the weekends are high handicappers not tour players. In the end when looking back at the testing we had done, it was the high handicappers that got more distance and better control from the longer driver despite what many experts said.

My experience agrees with this 100%. A pro can par a 400 yard par 4 by hitting a 4i or a 5i off the tee and then hit a 7i or less onto the green, they don't need the driver. This is why driver stats on tour mean less than probably any other stat in terms of deciding who wins and who loses. Not many 20 handicappers would be able to make a 5 this way. Higher handicappers pull out the driver on every hole because it is the club they practice with the most, probably feel most comfortable with, and on a 400 plus yard par 4 it leaves them a 7 or 8 iron into the green and that is better for them even out of the rough than being 200 yards out and in the middle of the fairway.
 
A driver on a 400+ yard hole doesn't leave me a 7 or 8 iron to the green!
 
Actually I did try it yesterday on the course, but wanted to hear what your take was on it. You just confirmed what I was seeing, however I did have a couple hooks or slices with it. Not sure if it was from overswinging or just the change in my position. Shot an 81 though. Nice increase in distance with very litle change.

I have to say also, this guy at GolfUSA never charged me for the 30 min instructions and asked me to come back. He wants to work on my lag as soon as we have the swing path comfortable.
 
A driver on a 400+ yard hole doesn't leave me a 7 or 8 iron to the green!

It could Smalls. Driver 250 if you get one and then 150 left to middle or 140 to the front is most likely (totally guessing here) a 7 iron for you or a really soft 6 iron right?
 
I went to a bigbox type store a couple of day's ago and talked to the owner/pro about this very thing. My goal was to be fitted for my R9. As I am only 5'6" and 155 lb's, along with turning 50 very soon, I'm looking for anything that can add some length.

He suggested that my original driver length is the way to go. After putting me on a swing monitor he showed me that I hit 10 shots in a row, after warming up, 230 to 238 with a slight draw. Every shot was left of center and all stayed almost exactly on the same path. (Pretty typical of what I see on the course)

Then he tweaked my swing by scooting the ball a few inches forward and softening my grip. Felt really strange having the ball that far forward, but he explained he wanted me to try a few hitting the ball on an upward swing path. It took me a few swings and then I had 4 or 5 in a row that were all in the 250 yrd plus range. I hit two over 260 yrds. (wow, lol). He showed me that my actual swing speed was only 88 to 90, but not to consentrate on that. My angle changed from like 11 degrees to 13 and up which got me more heigth and more distance.

So now my question is, does this work on the course? I can see times where wind or softer fairways might hamper this some? Also, I did loose some accuracy. I had some issues of hooking which may have been the softer grip?

Any idea's as it relates to your test's of longer shafts? Great test by the way and great timing.

I will move the ball back on windy days and on narrow fairways, but by moving it up I can pump it out there pretty good most days. Keep both setups in your arsenal and use both, when you have more room move it up and let it fly. Move it even farther back and it becomes a stinger with the driver, you need lots of wrist break going back from the ball on that, like Azinger's swing, pick the club up sharply instead of dragging it back along the ground and choke up a little.
 
Could be on my best drive. But I average at best 225. So I'm usually using more than that on my second shot on a hole that long.
 
It could Smalls. Driver 250 if you get one and then 150 left to middle or 140 to the front is most likely (totally guessing here) a 7 iron for you or a really soft 6 iron right?
Thanks for the support JB. :thumb:

I can go pretty long so for me a 150 second shot would be a PW or a 9i on an average day. Tried to throttle that back some in my comments, but even a 5 iron from 150 is a much better shot than anything from 200 plus, right?
 
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