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Short Par 4's...good or bad?

Mardin

Mardin

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Inspired by the long par 3 thread..(http://www.thehackersparadise.com/forum/showthread.php?23225-Par-3s...the-long-and-short..) I started thinking about short par 4's that I have played. When I step up to the tee at a short par 4 the first thing that comes to mind is "Is this cheating." I've played par 4's that were 250-265yds. A solid drive from me puts me within 10-15 yds of the green.

My question is, are short par 4's just as fair as long par 3's? Is maxing out your par 3's and limiting the distance on some par 4's a good assesment of your scoring?
 
A short par 4 or two can be great, imo. If you play a course that is mostly made up of short ones it's slope and rating will reflect that. The good shorties give a good risk/reward scenario for the long hitters.
 
We have one at my home course, I can get within 20 yards or so with a solid drive, but if I am offline I am in the beach or grasstrap and they are tough. Its fun
 
I don't see anything wrong with a short par 4. I would rather play it with a little trouble around the green to make it more of a risk/reward hole that could possibly punish you if you went for the green and hit a bad shot. There's not much fun in playing one that is wide open and playing about 280 with no trouble.
 
I lay up on any short Par 4. Id rather take 6 Iron, hit it in the fairway and wedge up for a birdie rather than Driving it into the thick stuff or a bunker and scrambling to save par.
 
Hawk said:
A short par 4 or two can be great, imo. If you play a course that is mostly made up of short ones it's slope and rating will reflect that. The good shorties give a good risk/reward scenario for the long hitters.
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I love seeing those short par 4's on my score cards it gives me the opportunity to make up for the long par 3 that I may have double bogeyed a few holes before.
 
I play 4 of those 'short' par 4s. The one at my local home course is 255, plays more like 240. It can be driven with a 3 wood with dry ground. That one is a bit too easy, but at the same time, I have the same opportunity as everyone else on it.

The other shorter holes are at a nearby course. Two of them the corner can be cut, and it will land you about 15-20 yards from the green. Another one, the hole is drivable with an East wind. They are much more risk reward, particularly when cutting the corners. It takes a lot of carry and the right line to pull it off. If you miss, its going to be a lost ball OB. But if you make it, it can be a pretty simple pitch for and up and down birdie.

I don't think anything is wrong with shorter par 4s. It all depends on your course strategy and management how you play it.
 
Mardin said:
I love seeing those short par 4's on my score cards it gives me the opportunity to make up for the long par 3 that I may have double bogeyed a few holes before.
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I sometimes play a course that is short in general (5,300) and feel the same way. It has a bunch of long par 3's and a decent number of shorter par 4's (300-320 yards). The only thing that drives me crazy is when I double one of the par 4's because I know that's where I need to score.
 
Short 4's are good as long as the course that it is on has a good variety of lengths in its holes. It keeps me using all of my clubs and not just a select few
 
Mardin said:
I love seeing those short par 4's on my score cards it gives me the opportunity to make up for the long par 3 that I may have double bogeyed a few holes before.
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I'm in the same boat! Love the risk reward ones for sure... My home course has a short par 4 that's got water on the left short of the green and OB right, AND the fairway is sloped towards the water. A GREAT risk reward for sure...
 
bhilton said:
I don't see anything wrong with a short par 4. I would rather play it with a little trouble around the green to make it more of a risk/reward hole that could possibly punish you if you went for the green and hit a bad shot. There's not much fun in playing one that is wide open and playing about 280 with no trouble.
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Spot on.
 
The last short par 4 I played was easily driveable... (Jamestown course at Williamsburg National)...unfortunately so were the hills and woods all around the green...it took a while to find my ball, then I kinda whished I hadn't. But it was a fun hole.
 
Spaceman_Spiff said:
I'm in the same boat! Love the risk reward ones for sure... My home course has a short par 4 that's got water on the left short of the green and OB right, AND the fairway is sloped towards the water. A GREAT risk reward for sure...
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I'm playing a course this weekend that has a 265yd par 4 hole that has about 45-50yds of tall fescue grass in front of it. If you're a long hitter you can reach the green in 1. But if you're a short hitter like myself a layup is the smart move to avoid the fescue. It's one of those holes where when you get up to the tee box your ego clicks on and the hole dosen't look as far as it actually is. Needless to say, the last time i played the course I was the only one of my 4some not trying to get their ball out of the high fescue. Risk v. Reward holes are what make golf great!
 
Seems like most of the short par 4's (under 270-280) that I see are uphill, which makes them play longer than they seem. I've played a short par 4 at swope (TexasHacker played it a week or two ago) that is up a big hill with a tree that has overhanging branches in the way of the shot up by the green. I birdied it the first time I played it but I thought it was a par 3 (I hit the tree, chipped it close and made the putt). Didn't realize I birdied it until I wrote the score down!

The ones that are around 300 I am not driving anyway, so they are still two shot holes for me anyway.
 
Smallville said:
Seems like most of the short par 4's (under 270-280) that I see are uphill, which makes them play longer than they seem. I've played a short par 4 at swope (TexasHacker played it a week or two ago) that is up a big hill with a tree that has overhanging branches in the way of the shot up by the green. I birdied it the first time I played it but I thought it was a par 3 (I hit the tree, chipped it close and made the putt). Didn't realize I birdied it until I wrote the score down!

The ones that are around 300 I am not driving anyway, so they are still two shot holes for me anyway.
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Hahaha. Yea, until they make a nice 230-240 yard par 4, I'm taking two.
 
Hawk said:
Hahaha. Yea, until they make a nice 230-240 yard par 4, I'm taking two.
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I should amend that that anything over 240 I am unlikely to reach in one unless it's downhill! When my longest drive is 259, I'm limited.
 
One of the courses I play has a lot of short par 4s on the front 9. The back 9 has a couple of short ones. I tend to let my ego get the better of me and I pull out the driver and hook a ball left or right. Instead I should have used a hybrid and hit the fairway. The course makes up for how short the holes are with fast greens and some have severe undulating greens. It makes it fun when you have a 10 foot down hill double breaker for a birdie.
 
Short par 4's are great and super fun to me as long as there's trouble around the green and it's no shorter than 270ish.
 
Most of the courses I play do not have too many short Par 4's. There is one course around here that is ridiculously short that we will go play every once in a while depending on the group of people that are playing. When I say short, there is a 220 yard par 4, and a couple par 5s that cant be more than 315. Not a course I get to often, but when my nephew is in town, I like to take the little guy out there for a fun round.

On topic, a short par 4 is nice, excellent scoring opportunity. But there is no worse feeling than going to a short par 4 and leaving with a bogey or a double...
 
Mardin said:
Inspired by the long par 3 thread..(http://www.thehackersparadise.com/forum/showthread.php?23225-Par-3s...the-long-and-short..) I started thinking about short par 4's that I have played. When I step up to the tee at a short par 4 the first thing that comes to mind is "Is this cheating." I've played par 4's that were 250-265yds. A solid drive from me puts me within 10-15 yds of the green.

My question is, are short par 4's just as fair as long par 3's? Is maxing out your par 3's and limiting the distance on some par 4's a good assesment of your scoring?
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I think they're just as fair.

Short par 4's (just like long par 3's) have become a staple of professional golf and I think that many people see this as a new thing. The truth is that the USGA defines a "Par 4" as a hole from 251 to 470 yards and this has been on the books since 1917. It's something that's been little used over the years because I think that many course designers saw such holes just as many here do as either ridiculously long (in the case of par 3's) or ridiculously short as you allude to in your post. But that thinking has changed in the last ten years or so and I think it's a good thing. I like short par 4's because they're "breathers" and a chance to either make up for a bad hole or to use as a hedge against future, more difficult holes.

If a short hole is designed according to traditional standards, it usually has some kind of "shape" to it, (it isn't just straight away) and they usually have small greens with elaborate bunkering and contours, or perhaps even a hazard to negotiate. Holes like that aren't just short for the sake of letting people drive the green (or come close). I've played holes that were just short for the sake of being short and I DID think of them as "cheating" because there was really no challenge other than hitting a straight tee shot and I find holes like that to be rather boring.

But if a short hole has a good risk - reward aspect to it, then I think they're fine because I still have to make a choice of going for it or laying up. But if I can belt one off the tee far enough to be putting for an eagle, I'll take it every time because I know there are plenty of other holes out there that are just waiting to take strokes from me.

Golf is hard enough as it is and if some designer wants to give me a break now and then and offer me an opportunity to "steal" a birdie or better, I'm sure as hell not going to argue with him. :thumb:
 
I love short par 4s, I think one per 18 is a great option especially if there is trouble around it and it tempts you to drive to drive the green. Risk/Reward par 4s are great.
 
I love short par 4's as they add a taste of course management to the table. When you have a risk/reward factor to a hole it becomes more than a bomb and gouge hole. The bad thing with it is it can turn the hole into one that slows down play considerably. There is always one player in the group who tries to drive the green thus they must wait for the green to clear making it similar to a par 3. Bring in the factor of big trouble on the hole it just adds more time to play it. This is similar to short par 5's that half the players can get home it two if they want to gamble. While they are certainly fun to play they also can cause bottlenecks on the course.
 
I love short par 4's (275-320 yards) that have a generous fairway, but lots of trouble around the green. The risk/reward factor makes each player make a decision off the tee. I love the thinking involved. Do I bomb it at the green with driver, or hit 6 to 115 in the fairway? I hate short par 4's that are straight away with no or little trouble, or shorties that offer no decisions such as 90 degree doglegs that leave you iron as the only option.
 
I have no issues with a short par 4 from time to time, but around here they are usually 90* dog legs where going over the trees to cut the corner is really not an option.
 
Gus R said:
The bad thing with it is it can turn the hole into one that slows down play considerably. There is always one player in the group who tries to drive the green thus they must wait for the green to clear making it similar to a par 3.
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Verry true. Especally when someone has to wait around, the pressure builds up and they are less likely to hit the perfect shot it takes to get there in 1. Then they have to look for their ball or play 2 extra shots to get out of jail. All takes extra time. Which builds up on the next guy on the tee.
 
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