MLB 2011 season (Spoilers)

[pjcedog]

You just made my point. With Kemp, the Dodgers are team that's 12.5 back and never in contention. Without him, they would be just as bad or worse. Even with Kemp, they still are pretty bad.

Without Braun or Fielder, the Brewers don't win the Division. Without Pujols, the cards are not contending for the wildcard. If Kemp did win the Triple Crown, then I would most definately give him my vote (if I had one). But if he doesn't then he is just a guy who had great numbers on a bad team, which is a lot less impressive to me than a having great numbers on a good team.

Actually I did not make your point, the point is the MVP is an individual award not a team award, contending or not has nothing to do with it. If you are the best player on the field it makes no difference whether your team record is good or bad.

 

[Hanks]

truth!

Howard won the mvp a couple years ago without the phillies making the playoffs


tapatalk addict....

 

[Nate]

Rangers need to win tonight! Not needed, but will take the Boston/Rays path over the other option.

Rooting for a Rays/Soxs - Cards/Braves play in game tomorrow night to get the playoffs started!!! Would be a great way to start 'em up!

 

[TRyan]

Actually I did not make your point, the point is the MVP is an individual award not a team award, contending or not has nothing to do with it. If you are the best player on the field it makes no difference whether your team record is good or bad.

It does though..it doesn't say best player.. It says most valuable player.

I have admitted that kemp was the best player in the NL this year, but I predict that he will finish 3rd at best

 

[dankil13]

Howard won the mvp a couple years ago without the phillies making the playoffs

Howard also had 58 HRs that year and 150 RBIs, which were head and shoulders better than any other player in the league. And the Phillies won 85 games and just missed out on the playoffs. Kemp has had a good year, but he statistically he is not much better than Braun or Fielder. And teams aren't pitching around Kemp in meaningless games.

Funny how Howard won the MVP when his team didn't make the playoffs, but he gets very little recognition in the MVP talk this year despite being at or near the top of the league leaders in HRs and RBIs (he was leading in RBIs before sitting out the last two weeks due to a foot injury).

 

[dankil13]

if cards get in watch out! they are hot, and own philly this year to the tune of 6-3

You do realize that the Phillies were on cruise control for the last series, and sat down Howard for 3 of those games?

 

[dankil13]

It does though..it doesn't say best player.. It says most valuable player.

I have admitted that kemp was the best player in the NL this year, but I predict that he will finish 3rd at best

There is a distinction there - not sure how you judge it on a team as bad as the Dodgers. It is also hard to judge players with the unbalanced schedule. Kemp has to face a good pitching staff in SF, but the rest of the NL West is pathetic. You also have pitcher parks in SF, SD and LA - but hitter's park in AZ and COL.

Same point on Kershaw - yes statistically he is the best pitcher in the league - but the Giants and Padres are two of the worse hitting teams in the league. And he plays of lot more of his games in pitchers parks than Halladay, Lee and Ian Kennedy.

It would be something (historical??) though that if a team as bad as the Dodgers has both the CY Young winner and MVP!

 

[TRyan]

I would be willing to bet a good chunk of money that Kershaw will be getting the CY Young. He is an absolute phenom and the CY Young goes to the best pitcher, not the most valuable.

As for the Phillies thing, not sure what you mean by cruise control? You started everyone but Howard against us. The Cardinals are playing the best baseball in the NL and with or without Howard the Phillies have been struggling until this last series.

 

[ddec]

I would think Kershaw gets the CY Young. His numbers are crazy almost 60 hits less than innings pitched and a WHIP below 1. Not to mention the pitchers triple crown, T-1 Wins, 1st in ERA and 1st in K's.

 

[Hanks]

his avg sucks though....unless you're hitting 50+ hr's no way do you win MVP with a .250 avg

Howard also had 58 HRs that year and 150 RBIs, which were head and shoulders better than any other player in the league. And the Phillies won 85 games and just missed out on the playoffs. Kemp has had a good year, but he statistically he is not much better than Braun or Fielder. And teams aren't pitching around Kemp in meaningless games.

Funny how Howard won the MVP when his team didn't make the playoffs, but he gets very little recognition in the MVP talk this year despite being at or near the top of the league leaders in HRs and RBIs (he was leading in RBIs before sitting out the last two weeks due to a foot injury).

The Phils couldn't get out of their own way even with Howard sitting for 3 games....him sitting didn't play much into their losing streak

You do realize that the Phillies were on cruise control for the last series, and sat down Howard for 3 of those games?

you can't help who you play or where you play.....in baseball its usually all about the stats

There is a distinction there - not sure how you judge it on a team as bad as the Dodgers. It is also hard to judge players with the unbalanced schedule. Kemp has to face a good pitching staff in SF, but the rest of the NL West is pathetic. You also have pitcher parks in SF, SD and LA - but hitter's park in AZ and COL.

Same point on Kershaw - yes statistically he is the best pitcher in the league - but the Giants and Padres are two of the worse hitting teams in the league. And he plays of lot more of his games in pitchers parks than Halladay, Lee and Ian Kennedy.

It would be something (historical??) though that if a team as bad as the Dodgers has both the CY Young winner and MVP!

 

[MattyKrack17]

You do realize that the Phillies were on cruise control for the last series, and sat down Howard for 3 of those games?

And before the last series, we were 3-2. Those 3 wins are enough to win the first round

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[pjcedog]

It does though..it doesn't say best player.. It says most valuable player.

I have admitted that kemp was the best player in the NL this year, but I predict that he will finish 3rd at best

Not arguing that but it is hard to argue that the best player is not also the most valuable....what usually holds with few exceptions is the best player on the team with the best record wins it and that is what I don't agree with.

 

[MattyKrack17]

Howard also had 58 HRs that year and 150 RBIs, which were head and shoulders better than any other player in the league. And the Phillies won 85 games and just missed out on the playoffs. Kemp has had a good year, but he statistically he is not much better than Braun or Fielder. And teams aren't pitching around Kemp in meaningless games.

Funny how Howard won the MVP when his team didn't make the playoffs, but he gets very little recognition in the MVP talk this year despite being at or near the top of the league leaders in HRs and RBIs (he was leading in RBIs before sitting out the last two weeks due to a foot injury).

And pujols is having a down year, and is still better then 80% of mlb stats. Tied for hr lead and hr sat out ten games

tapatalk addict....

 

[dankil13]

his avg sucks though....unless you're hitting 50+ hr's no way do you win MVP with a .250 avg

Average is an overrated stat for a power hitter. If Howard hit .330 - teams would never pitch to him and he wouldn't drive in 125+ runs a year (see Pujols)

The Phils couldn't get out of their own way even with Howard sitting for 3 games....him sitting didn't play much into their losing streak

Howard sat out all of those games but one - and in that one Utley and Pence did not play. The games meant absolutely nothing and Manuel rested his players to get healthy for the playoffs. The guys that did play were going thru the motions - most the games the opposing pitchers had 60/70 pitches after 7/8 innings. The games might as well been played in Clearwater (Phillies spring training facility).

you can't help who you play or where you play.....in baseball its usually all about the stats

Agreed - baseball is about stats - but sometimes you have to take a deeper dive into those stats than what is on he surface. A pitcher's record is also a reflection of his run support, the defense behind him, etc. ERA and WHIP are better indicators than wins and losses.

 

[dankil13]

And before the last series, we were 3-2. Those 3 wins are enough to win the first round

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Sure - but the postseason is a completely different animal and I will take home field advantage plus the pitching matchups of Halladay/Lee/Hamels/Oswalt vs Garcia/Westbrook/Carpenter/Lohse(assuming there is a game tomorrow between St L and Atl)

 

[TRyan]

Howard sat out all of those games but one - and in that one Utley and Pence did not play. The games meant absolutely nothing and Manuel rested his players to get healthy for the playoffs. The guys that did play were going thru the motions - most the games the opposing pitchers had 60/70 pitches after 7/8 innings. The games might as well been played in Clearwater (Phillies spring training facility).

Dankil if you think that the Phillies werent trying to win each and every game of that series you are sadly mistaken.

Friday September 16th: Cardinals win 4-2. Everyone but Howard plays, Vance Worley throws 106 pitches. (Not quite the 60 you said)

Saturday September 17th: Phillies win 9-2: Everyone on the Phillies plays, Roy Oswalt throws 107 pitches.

Sunday September 18th: Cardinals win 5-0: Everyone but Howard Plays, Hamels throws 91 pitches.

Where in there does it look like a Spring Training game?

 

[dankil13]

I would be willing to bet a good chunk of money that Kershaw will be getting the CY Young. He is an absolute phenom and the CY Young goes to the best pitcher, not the most valuable.

As for the Phillies thing, not sure what you mean by cruise control? You started everyone but Howard against us. The Cardinals are playing the best baseball in the NL and with or without Howard the Phillies have been struggling until this last series.

Those games meant nothing to the Phillies - meanwhile the Cards were fighting for to keep their playoff hopes alive. Teams often play their full lineups in Spring Training but that doesn't mean there is a real effort to win the game. It's about getting repetitions and working on certain aspects of their game - not about the end result!

 

[dankil13]

Dankil if you think that the Phillies werent trying to win each and every game of that series you are sadly mistaken.

Friday September 16th: Cardinals win 4-2. Everyone but Howard plays, Vance Worley throws 106 pitches. (Not quite the 60 you said)

Saturday September 17th: Phillies win 9-2: Everyone on the Phillies plays, Roy Oswalt throws 107 pitches.

Sunday September 18th: Cardinals win 5-0: Everyone but Howard Plays, Hamels throws 91 pitches.

Where in there does it look like a Spring Training game?

I was referring to the opposing pitchers - some of the pitch counts were ridiculously low, as the Phils were just hacking away versus working the count. There was no effort/hustle on Sunday or Monday, or any of the games versus Washington

 

[pjcedog]

Stats in baseball are way overused. What matters is how you perform when the game is on the line. A-Rod for example hits a lot of homeruns when the game is out of reach or already decided. I will take a guy who hits .250 but always gets on base when you are behind or drives in a run when trailing over a guy who has more glamorous stats but chokes half the time when it matters most. Same with fielding I would take a guy who lets a routine ball go by once in a while as long as they come up big when it counts over a guy making diving stops when it doesn't matter but throws the ball away when things get tight, this is what separates winners from losers in baseball, not stats. This is what some teams don't seem to understand and why some always lose year after year even after signing big name free agent players.

 

[Hanks]

Teams don't pitch to him now

Like I said, Howard sitting had little to no impact on that losing streak

With that reasoning, relief pitchers with 7 wins and a 1.47 ERA should be winning the Cy Young award every year then

Average is an overrated stat for a power hitter. If Howard hit .330 - teams would never pitch to him and he wouldn't drive in 125+ runs a year (see Pujols)




Howard sat out all of those games but one - and in that one Utley and Pence did not play. The games meant absolutely nothing and Manuel rested his players to get healthy for the playoffs. The guys that did play were going thru the motions - most the games the opposing pitchers had 60/70 pitches after 7/8 innings. The games might as well been played in Clearwater (Phillies spring training facility).



Agreed - baseball is about stats - but sometimes you have to take a deeper dive into those stats than what is on he surface. A pitcher's record is also a reflection of his run support, the defense behind him, etc. ERA and WHIP are better indicators than wins and losses.

 

[dankil13]

Dankil if you think that the Phillies werent trying to win each and every game of that series you are sadly mistaken.

Friday September 16th: Cardinals win 4-2. Everyone but Howard plays, Vance Worley throws 106 pitches. (Not quite the 60 you said)

Saturday September 17th: Phillies win 9-2: Everyone on the Phillies plays, Roy Oswalt throws 107 pitches.

Sunday September 18th: Cardinals win 5-0: Everyone but Howard Plays, Hamels throws 91 pitches.

Where in there does it look like a Spring Training game?

The Phillies also had to play 33 games in 31 days, or something to that effect. Once clinching the division was in done, this team checked out (and rightfully so) until the Mets series (which was derailed by the rainout and doubleheader). The reporters who cover the team said that was the plan prior to clinching - and that is exactly how it went down.

 

[TRyan]

I was referring to the opposing pitchers - some of the pitch counts were ridiculously low, as the Phils were just hacking away versus working the count. There was no effort/hustle on Sunday or Monday, or any of the games versus Washington

Oh ok so your team only tries if they have too.. Thats the sign of a team I want to be on. One that can just decide they want to lose 9 games in a row and then just turn it on when they have to

 

[TRyan]

The Phillies also had to play 33 games in 31 days, or something to that effect. Once clinching the division was in done, this team checked out (and rightfully so) until the Mets series (which was derailed by the rainout and doubleheader). The reporters who cover the team said that was the plan prior to clinching - and that is exactly how it went down.

Please show me where a reporter said the "phillies checked out until they played the mets" I would love to see it

 

[Hanks]

yep

Dankil if you think that the Phillies werent trying to win each and every game of that series you are sadly mistaken.

Friday September 16th: Cardinals win 4-2. Everyone but Howard plays, Vance Worley throws 106 pitches. (Not quite the 60 you said)

Saturday September 17th: Phillies win 9-2: Everyone on the Phillies plays, Roy Oswalt throws 107 pitches.

Sunday September 18th: Cardinals win 5-0: Everyone but Howard Plays, Hamels throws 91 pitches.

Where in there does it look like a Spring Training game?

other teams go through the same stretches as well...and a big wth to this?

The Phillies also had to play 33 games in 31 days, or something to that effect. Once clinching the division was in done, this team checked out (and rightfully so) until the Mets series (which was derailed by the rainout and doubleheader). The reporters who cover the team said that was the plan prior to clinching - and that is exactly how it went down.

+1000

Please show me where a reporter said the "phillies checked out until they played the mets" I would love to see it

 

[dankil13]

Oh ok so your team only tries if they have too.. Thats the sign of a team I want to be on. One that can just decide they want to lose 9 games in a row and then just turn it on when they have to

Home field and division was clinched - nothing left to play for. Don't other teams do the same? Sure, usually its a few games at the end of the year, but that's the luxury of clinching in mid-Sept. The season is 162 games + spring training + postseason. Why risk injury in meaningless games? And I think they have flipped the switch pretty well pounding the Mets on Sunday and the Braves the last two nights, don't you?