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Ryan Braun Wins Appeal

Doctor on Outside the Lines just ripped Braun up. Said that the test was positive for synthetic testosterone and that the other testosterone level was off the charts too. Said that 2-3 delay does nothing to the sample that would create a false positive.

so you're left with a theory that someone was out to get Braun and tampered with the sample.

And as for the DNA test, some are reporting from MLB that Braun first said he would give one, but then he and his lawyers took it off the table.

Oh well, I definitely think he used them and got away with it. Hopefully every road trip he's greeted like Bonds was late in his career anyway.
 
bluehat9 said:
Doctor on Outside the Lines just ripped Braun up. Said that the test was positive for synthetic testosterone and that the other testosterone level was off the charts too. Said that 2-3 delay does nothing to the sample that would create a false positive.
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From a legal sense, I don't know if it matters. If the agreed upon procedures break down, anything that occurs after that break down is moot. It is a "slippery slope" argument. May not be a good one, but procedures HAVE to be followed.
 
Kmac said:
I dunno, were guys doping back that far? Something we will never know so why go there. But we sure as hell know it goes on now and this guy tested positive, no? No accusation it was a failed test. Failed. He got off based on some dumb technicality.
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But what if the test was a false failed test. Everyone assumes in lusting MLB that their test are the gospel. Nothing in life is that perfect. It is entirely possible that he had nothing positive in his system and the test was tainted. But no one wants to go down that path which is just as shady as him using drugs.
What if the test belong to another player that it is being protected? There are a ton of what ifs.
As for bringing up the reps of hank and roger, they were brought into the fray with the mention of their records
 
cj3ap2 said:
When the question of the test came into play and braun offered to take a dna test and mlb said no thanks, that doesn't weigh in anyone's opinion? The test being ridiculously high and various questionable circumstances surrounding it, Doesn't matter to the majority? It's just braun's a cheater and got a way with it so bleep him and that's that?

I'm trying to tread lightly because i'm aware and have been up front about my bias, its just that the last sentence in my above paragraph is how i'm interpreting the reaction (not just here, in other places to) and I'm just not sure how I should feel about that.
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figured someone would bring that up .. read up on it .. his team backed off offering to take that DNA test after they said it. its common place in accusations like this .. oh ill take this test and that test to prove my innocence when the camera is in your face but when its time to man up not so much.
 
Tadashi70 said:
I think the post is bunk, how does one know Hank and roger weren't aided by drugs? We take their records as clean because they never tested positive. But only they know because I don't think testing was done back then.
How did Braun game the system. No one in MLB has said he anything to the contrary. He took the test and was accused. He nothing to do with the process other than peeing in a cup. But because they say he is guilty he is. How do you know the test isn't tainted? How do you know it's not? We don't but you have two sides a guilty and a not guilty but you would assume guilt.
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what are you talking about man ? MLB has said everytime they know the sample was his and stand by that.

how could they taint it? you cant just sprinkle in testosterone into his urine. lol havent you had a piss test? when you piss in the cup and bring to the worker they seal it and you sign the seal. which was on the bottle that was tested. right or wrong?
 
Tadashi70 said:
But what if the test was a false failed test. Everyone assumes in lusting MLB that their test are the gospel. Nothing in life is that perfect. It is entirely possible that he had nothing positive in his system and the test was tainted. But no one wants to go down that path which is just as shady as him using drugs.
What if the test belong to another player that it is being protected? There are a ton of what ifs.
As for bringing up the reps of hank and roger, they were brought into the fray with the mention of their records
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MLB uses WADA for testing ... it is pretty much the gospel that the rest of the world uses.


he is guilty just like clemens is guilty,bonds,sammy,etc ,etc,etc,etc

at least some of them had the sack to fess up about their dope use.
 
Interesting article.

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/...d-ryan-braun-successful-appeal-mlb-suspension

System worked in Ryan Braun ruling

Questions remain, but baseball officials can't complain about the arbitration process


Aaron Rodgers, the all-world quarterback for the Green Bay Packers and the reigning MVP of the National Football League, was the one of the first voices to be heard when Ryan Braun, the all-world outfielder for the Milwaukee Brewers and the reigning MVP of the National League, won his appeal of a 50-game suspension for violating baseball's drug policy Thursday. "MLB and cable sports tried to sully the reputation of an innocent man," Rodgers wrote on Twitter. "Picked the wrong guy to mess with. Truth will set u free #exonerated."

With Prince Fielder gone to Detroit, Rodgers and Braun are the two biggest-name professional athletes in their state, and Rodgers might merely have been offering a little Wisconsin solidarity. Or maybe Rodgers was expressing relief for a victory over the steroid hunters from the U.S. and World Anti-Doping Agencies, a victory that athletes around the world rarely achieve. Maybe it was elation that players beat management in this case, or maybe Rodgers' emotions were a little bit of everything.

Tomasso DeRosa/Four Seam Images/AP ImagesThe decision on Ryan Braun's suspension played out exactly the way the system designed it to happen.

What we know definitively right now is that Braun will not be suspended for 50 games and that the MLB commissioner's office has suffered its first setback of the reform era as a result of arbitrator Shyam Das casting the deciding vote in favor of the union's appeal. Since the Mitchell report in 2007, the sport has changed its attitude and approach to the performance-enhancing drug issue, starting with the commissioner's office transforming itself from complicit to vigilant and netting players for amphetamine use (Mike Cameron was once suspended 25 games, Neifi Perez for 80 games) as well as performance enhancers. Manny Ramirez, for example, has been busted not once but twice for PEDs.

Much will be said in the coming days and weeks about Braun, about whether he got away with one on a technicality. Travis Tygart, the head of USADA, called it a "gut-kick" for clean athletes everywhere. Baseball, not used to losing, is considering a federal lawsuit to overturn the Das decision. Both are positioning themselves as good guys who lost.

But the Braun decision played out exactly as it should have. His test does not appear to be a false positive. It doesn't appear to be an error in the omission of a substance that should be banned. There does not appear to be much ambiguity that Braun's appeal was upheld not because he didn't use a performance enhancer but because of a sloppy custody chain. Nevertheless, the system worked. Through the fraud of Sosa/McGwire in 1998, Barry Bonds' 73- (yes, 73!) home run season in 2001, the Jose Canseco revelations, the March 2005 congressional hearing, Rafael Palmeiro's ill-fated finger-wag, the Clemens hearing and mistrial, the rise of revenues and loss of belief, baseball has arrived at this point. Management said it would trust the system it negotiated, and the players' union, with Michael Weiner succeeding Donald Fehr as executive director, did the same: An independent third party arbitrates disputed drug tests and each side abides by the results.

Thursday's decision in Braun's favor came from that process, and it will be interesting now to see whether the public narrative following his successful appeal leans toward acceptance of a system that works or takes on an anti-player, pro-establishment tone -- that a cheater won, in other words. The issue isn't drugs nearly as much as the public's decision whether to align with City Hall. Had the situation been reversed, had Braun had lost his appeal, WADA and USADA, and certainly MLB, would have lauded the system, as drug-testing officials and supporters did in the triumphs over Ramirez and, most recently, the Spanish cyclist Alberto Contador.

Still, this is not exactly a clean result for anyone. Braun will return, but with a split decision. His MVP is intact and the record book will show no suspension, but his 2011 performance is still suspect and he has yet to explain to the public the 20-1 testosterone ratio that triggered the first positive test. Most likely he will not try, for he has his victory; but winning an appeal because his second test didn't reach the FedEx guy in time does not exactly represent a mandate.

Baseball might feel that Braun escaped the dragnet, but it, too, must accept a split decision. The bad news is that the league apparently believes its National League MVP is a drug cheat. The good news is that for posterity, he isn't. The Brewers -- a success-story team that has been in the playoffs twice since 2008 after having not making it to the postseason in the previous 26 years -- will have their best player on the field on Opening Day. The timing benefits the game, and the focus can remain on what takes place on the field rather than in a lab.

The people who wind up suffering the most are not Braun or baseball players or the fans, but professional football players, led by Rodgers, the Discount Double-Check man himself; unfortunately, he and his fellow pro football players don't have an independent process for appeals of rulings by Roger Goodell and the NFL on PEDs testing. Unlike Braun, who relied on the system and won, Rodgers and his teammates are at the mercy of their commissioner's office. There is no system in place for them, at least not yet -- and there needs to be
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Tadashi70 said:
I think the post is bunk, how does one know Hank and roger weren't aided by drugs? We take their records as clean because they never tested positive. But only they know because I don't think testing was done back then.
How did Braun game the system. No one in MLB has said he anything to the contrary. He took the test and was accused. He nothing to do with the process other than peeing in a cup. But because they say he is guilty he is. How do you know the test isn't tainted? How do you know it's not? We don't but you have two sides a guilty and a not guilty but you would assume guilt.
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Come on, man! Please tell me you didn't grasp the grandest of conspiracy theories and run with it. Roger and Hank doped? In the 50's, 60's and 70's? Maris feasted on fastballs batting in front of Mickey in '61. Hank had longevity. 20+ years of 30 home run seasons. It's not like Hank wandered around for a few years, belting 10 and 15 home runs and then suddenly exploded in both size and ability. From the gate, he came out hitting home runs. And hit for high average as well. He wasn't a 50+ homer thumper (never had a 50 home run year in his career) and he usually batted .300 or better. Comparing the Braun situation to not knowing if Hank, Roger or whoever else doped, is really out there and a weak defense of Braun, his situation and his career going forward.
 
JeffReedMO said:
Come on, man! Please tell me you didn't grasp the grandest of conspiracy theories and run with it. Roger and Hank doped? In the 50's, 60's and 70's? Maris feasted on fastballs batting in front of Mickey in '61. Hank had longevity. 20+ years of 30 home run seasons. It's not like Hank wandered around for a few years, belting 10 and 15 home runs and then suddenly exploded in both size and ability. From the gate, he came out hitting home runs. And hit for high average as well. He wasn't a 50+ homer thumper (never had a 50 home run year in his career) and he usually batted .300 or better. Comparing the Braun situation to not knowing if Hank, Roger or whoever else doped, is really out there and a weak defense of Braun, his situation and his career going forward.
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I'm not defending Braun or anyone else accused of doping. But to blindly say other didn't is just as weak. You weren't there and you don't know. We all assume that other records aren't tainted. The same holds true in this case, you don't know and you assume you do know. I'm not saying you are wrong and I'm right. I'm say the same doubt can be cast over other records just as easy. It's so easy to jump on the wagon and say he is guilty but he may not be.
 
Tadashi70 said:
I'm not defending Braun or anyone else accused of doping. But to blindly say other didn't is just as weak. You weren't there and you don't know. We all assume that other records aren't tainted. The same holds true in this case, you don't know and you assume you do know. I'm not saying you are wrong and I'm right. I'm say the same doubt can be cast over other records just as easy. It's so easy to jump on the wagon and say he is guilty but he may not be.
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If Ryan Braun isn't guilty, he is the most unfortunate man walking the face of the earth today. By far. And I find it very hard to believe that someone out there despises Ryan Braun so much, that they are willing to get a job as a drug test courier, taint the mans supply (and the odd chance he gets tested), and drop it off a day later, IN HOPES, someone leaks the report to make Braun's life a living hell. It doesn't add up. Where there is smoke, there is fire. And fans opinions do matter. Fans pay Ryan Braun's salary and buy the product he is selling.
 
Guys - no worries. The Pirates will take care of Braun.


Steel Tappin'
 
JeffReedMO said:
If Ryan Braun isn't guilty, he is the most unfortunate man walking the face of the earth today. By far. And I find it very hard to believe that someone out there despises Ryan Braun so much, that they are willing to get a job as a drug test courier, taint the mans supply (and the odd chance he gets tested), and drop it off a day later, IN HOPES, someone leaks the report to make Braun's life a living hell. It doesn't add up. Where there is smoke, there is fire. And fans opinions do matter. Fans pay Ryan Braun's salary and buy the product he is selling.
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Where there's smoke there is fire? So everyone pronounced guilt is? There are situations to the contrary?

I dont feel bad for him. He an MVP, walking upright with millions in the back. It would seem the iron clad system failed. If arod and Kobe can rebuild their images in face of admited guilt then Braun will have a cake walk.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Where there's smoke there is fire? So everyone pronounced guilt is? There are situations to the contrary?

I dont feel bad for him. He an MVP, walking upright with millions in the back. It would seem the iron clad system failed. If arod and Kobe can rebuild their images in face of admited guilt then Braun will have a cake walk.
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When it is a far fetched conspiracy theory that exonerates Braun, than yeah, I am really comfortable saying he cheated and there is fire. I am not saying Braun can't rebuild his career and image. But ultimately, it will be the FANS the judge and decide for Ryan Braun. And if you remember right, A-Rod took something his brother or cousin gave him. Only in a 60 Minutes interview, did he finally fess up and admit guilt. Big difference there. Braun is playing the small violins now, just like A-Rod, and Raffy pointing his finger at Congress. And he is only going to get by with this "I am a victim" jibber jabber for so long. Even at the odd chance he was squeaky clean or at worst, took a supplement he didn't know the contents of, fans are going to turn on him for kicking the dirt and playing the victim card, when all signs point to, he is guilty and beat the system on a technicality.
 
Good for Brauny. I always felt like he was innocent because the testosterone levels were so elevated, yet Braun doesnt fit the mold of the typical roider. Sadly, some people are never going to be satisfied withing anything other than a guility verdict. Even more sadly, it seems like the MLB are some of those people. You gotta love a governing body who thinks they are never wrong and never makes any mistakes, even when they clearly did.
 
With all of this talk about him proclaiming his innocence, and his fans agreeing with him, I suppose these same fans said Clemens is innocent when he did the same thing?
 
Ryan Braun cares more for his image than Tom Brady. He had no intention of being suspended, he knew he'd win the appeal whether he did something wrong or not/ It was all a publicity stunt in my opinion.
 
JB said:
With all of this talk about him proclaiming his innocence, and his fans agreeing with him, I suppose these same fans said Clemens is innocent when he did the same thing?
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I don't know JB, I can believe some guys and not believe others. I think Clemens did it, and the numbers seem to back that up and there were grumblings about him for years. Braun very well could have done it, to be honest I didn't even know who he was till he got pop'ed for this because I don't watch baseball a lot. I did follow this whole thing pretty closely and watched his interview today and right or wrong I believe him.

That doesn't make me right or wrong, I believe one and don't believe the other. Doesn't really mean anything what I think and has no bearing on the truth.
 
IceJack said:
Ryan Braun cares more for his image than Tom Brady. He had no intention of being suspended, he knew he'd win the appeal whether he did something wrong or not/ It was all a publicity stunt in my opinion.
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This is the craziest thing you have ever said on this site.
 
IceJack said:
Ryan Braun cares more for his image than Tom Brady. He had no intention of being suspended, he knew he'd win the appeal whether he did something wrong or not/ It was all a publicity stunt in my opinion.
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Are you crazy? Sorry that is just one of the craziest things ive read
 
Has anybody considered that Braun is a post op tranny and that he mistook his hormon treatment? And that is why his levels were super crazy high.
 
Gaijin_Golfer said:
Good for Brauny. I always felt like he was innocent because the testosterone levels were so elevated, yet Braun doesnt fit the mold of the typical roider. Sadly, some people are never going to be satisfied withing anything other than a guility verdict. Even more sadly, it seems like the MLB are some of those people. You gotta love a governing body who thinks they are never wrong and never makes any mistakes, even when they clearly did.
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But he didn't get off because there was evidence of tampering, he got off on a technicality.
 
ddec said:
So you plagerized?
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Shouldn't say direct quote cause I paraphrased. But if you wanna report me to the government for it go ahead. And I added the last sentence.
 
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