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The Rules Stickler Thread.

Smallville said:
I seriously think the OP should submit this question to the USGA for their opinion. It will take 3-4 weeks for them to get back to him, but they will give him whichever answer is correct! Then he can come back and let us know what they say.

http://www.usga.org/rules/contact/Contact-Us/
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I'll do just that. Now somebody else put some freak accident, drop, stroke, anything in here so I can get into the argument!!!

BTW...Rules Stickler works as well.


Siri does my posting for me using Tapatalk.
 
Hmmm. I like Smalls idea of sending it to the USGA because this is a tricky one with the new rule in tact.

If you were playing with me (or anyone I play with) you would have shot a 78. Congrats on the PB colt.
 
Slammin'SAM said:
The key is that the ball only moved as a result of the wind gust, not as a result of the motion of any part of coltharris or his equipment. There is no penalty for anything touching the ball - club, shoe, ball marker, hat, towel, etc. - as long as the touch doesn't cause the ball to move.

Rule 18-2 even says the club may touch the ball at address w/o penalty (as long as it doesn't move as a result).
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That makes sense. I didn't know 18-2 said that. Seems you're most likely correct.

Kevin
 
You shot a 78. Congratulations, and tell your buddy to shove it. Nicely, of course.
 
I may be wrong, but I thought if you hit the ball with your putter and you and your partner/opponent agree that there was no intent to hit the ball, the ball can be replaced with no stroke or penalty. I thought that's how it was for the putter (I know it isn't the same for other clubs).
 
Damaikis said:
I may be wrong, but I thought if you hit the ball with your putter and you and your partner/opponent agree that there was no intent to hit the ball, the ball can be replaced with no stroke or penalty. I thought that's how it was for the putter (I know it isn't the same for other clubs).
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No, if you're taking a practice stroke and clip your ball, that's a stroke. Not because you hit it unintentionally, but because the ball moved. You have to replace it and give yourself a 1 stroke penalty.
 
dtak84 said:
No, if you're taking a practice stroke and clip your ball, that's a stroke. Not because you hit it unintentionally, but because the ball moved. You have to replace it and give yourself a 1 stroke penalty.
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It's not a stroke, but it's a penalty for hitting the ball. Talk to Davis Love II about it.

http://www.lbknews.com/2010/01/09/striking-ball-unintentionally-counts/


After addressing his ball on the putting green, Love, as he always does, went through his normal putting routine which includes one practice putting motion. In moving the putter during his practice stroke, Love hit his ball, moving it about eight inches to the side at his right. He then proceeded to putt from this new position. Love did not intend to hit the ball. That is the key. Under Rule 18-2a(ii) the player incurs a penalty stroke if he moves his ball and does not replace it. Decision 18-2a/20 asks the question: what if a player makes a practice swing and accidentally moves his ball in play with his club, has he made a stroke? The answer is no. Since he had no intention of moving the ball, he has not made a stroke, however, he incurs a penalty stroke under Rule 18-2a for moving his ball in play and the ball must be replaced.

To proceed with the Love incident. He compounded his error by not replacing his ball. Hence, he had incurred one stroke penalty for moving his ball and yet another stroke for not replacing it. The final gross error came when he handed in his scorecard omitting the penalty strokes. Either he was not aware of his error or he was not aware of the rule. Handing in a wrong score mandates disqualification. That mistake cost Davis Love $91,000 in prize money.
 
Smallville said:
It's not a stroke, but it's a penalty for hitting the ball. Talk to Davis Love II about it.

http://www.lbknews.com/2010/01/09/striking-ball-unintentionally-counts/


After addressing his ball on the putting green, Love, as he always does, went through his normal putting routine which includes one practice putting motion. In moving the putter during his practice stroke, Love hit his ball, moving it about eight inches to the side at his right. He then proceeded to putt from this new position. Love did not intend to hit the ball. That is the key. Under Rule 18-2a(ii) the player incurs a penalty stroke if he moves his ball and does not replace it. Decision 18-2a/20 asks the question: what if a player makes a practice swing and accidentally moves his ball in play with his club, has he made a stroke? The answer is no. Since he had no intention of moving the ball, he has not made a stroke, however, he incurs a penalty stroke under Rule 18-2a for moving his ball in play and the ball must be replaced.

To proceed with the Love incident. He compounded his error by not replacing his ball. Hence, he had incurred one stroke penalty for moving his ball and yet another stroke for not replacing it. The final gross error came when he handed in his scorecard omitting the penalty strokes. Either he was not aware of his error or he was not aware of the rule. Handing in a wrong score mandates disqualification. That mistake cost Davis Love $91,000 in prize money.
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When I said stroke, I meant stroke penalty. Sorry, but you are correct, a practice swing is not the same as an actual stroke.
 
dtak84 said:
When I said stroke, I meant stroke penalty. Sorry, but you are correct, a practice swing is not the same as an actual stroke.
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Gotcha. As you said at the end of your post. Missed that part!
 
This is an interesting rules decision. Because you are certain that you did not cause the ball to move:
you are penalyzed 1 stroke under rule 19-2: Ball in motion deflected or stopped By Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment.

If a player’s ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by himself, his partner or either of their caddies of equipment, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke and the ball is played as it lies.

Sorry
 
Interesting take. But the ball was in motion not due to a stroke taken.

DCSerafin said:
This is an interesting rules decision. Because you are certain that you did not cause the ball to move:
you are penalyzed 1 stroke under rule 19-2: Ball in motion deflected or stopped By Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment.

If a player’s ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by himself, his partner or either of their caddies of equipment, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke and the ball is played as it lies.

Sorry
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The way I read the new rule is that there would be no penalty. There is nothing saying that if the wind moves the ball at address the player must quickly jump out of the way or lift his club to avoid a penalty.
 
DCSerafin said:
This is an interesting rules decision. Because you are certain that you did not cause the ball to move:
you are penalyzed 1 stroke under rule 19-2: Ball in motion deflected or stopped By Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment.

If a player’s ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by himself, his partner or either of their caddies of equipment, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke and the ball is played as it lies.

Sorry
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This is what I feel is correct as well. Never good when the ball hits equipment. I still also agree that the OP should send this one to the USGA to see what they say.
 
The USGA provides an example of this, actually. I copied and pasted it below:
[h=2]18-2b/12 - Ball Moves After Address and Is Stopped by Player's Club[/h]Q.After a player addresses his ball, the ball moves backward. Before the player can remove his club, the ball is stopped by the clubhead. What is the ruling?
A.The player incurs a penalty stroke under Rule 18-2b and the ball must be replaced. A further penalty under Rule 19-2 (Ball in Motion Deflected or Stopped by Player) does not apply in these circumstances, as the act of his clubhead stopping the ball was related to the initial act of his ball moving after address - see Principle 4 of Decision 1-4/12.
If it is known or virtually certain that the player did not cause the ball to move, Rule 18-2b does not apply (see Exception to Rule 18-2b). In such circumstances, the player would incur a one-stroke penalty under Rule 19-2 for accidentally deflecting or stopping his ball in motion with his equipment, and must play the ball as it lies. (Revised)
 
Looks like we may have our winner.
 
jitzy said:
It doesn't say anything about it coming into contact with the club. It does say at address so if the wind blew the ball at address and you didn't move it no stroke since you didn't move it.
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I like this. If your buddy didn't give you a gimmie out of it I would wright down 78 on the card and make him by me a beer
 
Under new ruling, the ball is played from its new position. In hitting the putter, the ball was prevented from moving to its new position (farther away from the hole).

Them's the breaks...
 
I'd give it to you.. as long as it wasn't a tourney. Otherwise... take that stroke or it's an improper scorecard. Congrats on your new PB!!

Alex

Flukey thing happened to me in a tournament... I was walking towards my ball... had a dizzy spell... staggered and stepped on my ball making it move. Penalty.
 
Deflected or stopped a moving ball.
#justsaying

Rotten luck and if it was a casual round I'd give you it. In a tournament or qualifying round it's the sort of thing you call upon yourself, and if in doubt ask the pro before you put your card in.

The rules ultimately are supposed to be fair, and it's easy to look at something like this and say it is unfair. But at the end if the day, your ball could have ended up several feet further away from the hole and your putter prevented this.
 
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