Mardin
New member
I couldn't hit a good flop shot with the XD to save my life. The XDS is like a completley different ball. You get all of the performance in the XDS that you would mostly get with most tour balls. Good review Icey.
Polara 2012 Golf Ball Forum Reviews
I couldn't hit a good flop shot with the XD to save my life. The XDS is like a completley different ball. You get all of the performance in the XDS that you would mostly get with most tour balls. Good review Icey.
HuskAir
Active member
Played 9 holes this morning, off the back 9...had an extremely up and down round.
This time I tried to exclusively use the XD, as I did so with the XDS in my last review.
Hole 10: Par 4, downhill.
1st shot: Driver, off of the tee. My ball started left and straightened up a little, down the left side of the fairway, into a lone sand trap (sigh, I NEVER go left!).
2nd shot: The sand was unusually soft, and I got too much under the ball. Wind blew sand into my face, and I fluffed the ball out onto the fairway.
3rd shot: 52*, from about 70. I put the ball within 10 feet. The ball landed short of my target, but rolled a ways.
Two-putt for bogey.
Hole 11: Dog-leg right, par 5.
1st shot: Driver, pushed the ball right, into the trees.
2nd shot: Pitched out, onto the fairway.
3rd shot: 3-wood, my only bad 3-wood of the day. I severely pushed the ball low and right. I thought I had wound up in a bunker to the right of the green, but I was actually sitting up on the next tee-box.
4th shot: 60*, chipped through a tree, to the fringe of the green.
Two-putt for bogey.
Hole 12: Par 4.
1st shot: Driver, put the ball along the right side of the fairway, woohoo.
2nd shot: 5-iron, chunked the ball into a creek. My first Polara ball I have lost.
4th shot: 52*, the ball sliced right, just over the creek. It was ugly. Missed the green right.
5th shot: 60*, pitch the ball within 5 feet, over a sand trap. The ball stopped rolling fairly quickly this time.
One-putt, double bogey.
Hole 13: Par 3
1st shot: 5-iron, push the ball, and left it short. I put myself behind some trees.
2nd shot: 60*, one of my best shots of the year. I shot it blindly over the ~15 foot tree. I honestly had no idea where the ball went. I ducked, thinking I hit a tree. Turns out, my ball was a foot from the pin, with the sprinkler going full blast on the green (C'mon now...). I have no idea if it rolled or just landed that way.
One-putt par.
Hole 14: Long par 4, with a street just to the left, "guarded" by a short fence.
1st shot: Driver, I pushed the ball a bit on my drive, so much that I thought I lost it. (I had the street in the back of my mind). Turns out I underestimated where the ball went...I knew it straightened out a little bit, but the ball wound up about 3 feet off of the fairway in the deep stuff.
2nd shot: 5-iron, chunked the ball again, about 60 yards down the middle.
3rd shot: 56*, attempted to pitch the ball onto the green, under-hit it slightly, and came up a couple feet short of the green.
4th shot: 60*, just pitched the ball on, rolled the ball to within 5 feet of the pin.
One-putt bogey.
Hole 15: Par 5
1st shot: Driver, pushed the ball right, once again... this time I could not find it, and believe the ball wound up in a creek. Boy did I cream it though...
3rd shot: 3-wood, (from about 250), I came up around 50 yards short, in the center of the fairway. It was a pretty well-hit ball.
4th shot: Completely missed the ball with a 52*, sliced it right.
5th shot: 56*, pitched the ball onto the fringe, 15 feet short of the pin.
Two-shot double bogey.
Hole 16: Par 3
1st shot: 8-iron from 130. From the moment I made contact, it felt good. I had made perfect contact, and even was able to shape my shot a bit. Landed on the green to the left of the pin, spun the ball towards the hole about 3 feet, and gave myself about a 10 foot putt for birdie. (Finally had a chance to use my Greensaver again... great tool!)
Two-putt par. Rimmed the birdie putt around the left lip of the hole.
Hole 17: Long par 4
1st shot: Driver, ball had a slight push, and came off kind of high. I think the ball may have been tee'd up slightly too high, and the ground was not very soft...had a little resistance there. The ball popped up, and landed 2 feet off of the fairway on the right.
2nd shot: 3 wood: Felt GREAT, just pushed about 20 yards to the right. Got a great hop off of the cart path, back towards the green. Came up about 7 yards short of the green, in the rough, on a downhill slope.
3rd shot: 60*, had to be careful, as the hole path to the hole was downhill. I may have been more successful just putting from my vantage point. Anyways, I chipped it too softly, and was lucky enough to have the ball roll onto the edge of the green.
Two putt-bogey.
Hole 18: Par 4, uphill
1st shot: Driver, made great contact, with yet again, a slight push. The ball seemed to change trajectory about 3 times. Landed in a sand trap on the right.
2nd shot: Once again, I underestimated the softness of the sand, and got under the ball... punch it out about 20 feet onto the fairway.
3rd shot: 52*, made great contact, the ball landed where I was aiming, but I could not see where/if it rolled. Turns out the ball rolled past the hole about 15 feet, giving me a putt up-hill.
One-putt par. Rammed the ball in, to finish the day.
+8, 44.
Driving:
Driving felt extremely similar to the XDS, in that I was pushing the ball nearly ever time. If I could figure out why I am consistent pushing the ball, I would by setting myself up for some great approach shots. I doubt it's the ball that is causing the push/fade. At the same time, the ball was not going as far as my normal Callaway iZ tour goes, but I did not officially measure this. It was just the general feel.
Around the Green:
Honestly, I was more successful with the XD, than the XDS. I'm not sure what it is, to be honest.
Putting:
It felt pretty good. I didn't miss any putt horribly today.
This time I tried to exclusively use the XD, as I did so with the XDS in my last review.
Hole 10: Par 4, downhill.
1st shot: Driver, off of the tee. My ball started left and straightened up a little, down the left side of the fairway, into a lone sand trap (sigh, I NEVER go left!).
2nd shot: The sand was unusually soft, and I got too much under the ball. Wind blew sand into my face, and I fluffed the ball out onto the fairway.
3rd shot: 52*, from about 70. I put the ball within 10 feet. The ball landed short of my target, but rolled a ways.
Two-putt for bogey.
Hole 11: Dog-leg right, par 5.
1st shot: Driver, pushed the ball right, into the trees.
2nd shot: Pitched out, onto the fairway.
3rd shot: 3-wood, my only bad 3-wood of the day. I severely pushed the ball low and right. I thought I had wound up in a bunker to the right of the green, but I was actually sitting up on the next tee-box.
4th shot: 60*, chipped through a tree, to the fringe of the green.
Two-putt for bogey.
Hole 12: Par 4.
1st shot: Driver, put the ball along the right side of the fairway, woohoo.
2nd shot: 5-iron, chunked the ball into a creek. My first Polara ball I have lost.
4th shot: 52*, the ball sliced right, just over the creek. It was ugly. Missed the green right.
5th shot: 60*, pitch the ball within 5 feet, over a sand trap. The ball stopped rolling fairly quickly this time.
One-putt, double bogey.
Hole 13: Par 3
1st shot: 5-iron, push the ball, and left it short. I put myself behind some trees.
2nd shot: 60*, one of my best shots of the year. I shot it blindly over the ~15 foot tree. I honestly had no idea where the ball went. I ducked, thinking I hit a tree. Turns out, my ball was a foot from the pin, with the sprinkler going full blast on the green (C'mon now...). I have no idea if it rolled or just landed that way.
One-putt par.
Hole 14: Long par 4, with a street just to the left, "guarded" by a short fence.
1st shot: Driver, I pushed the ball a bit on my drive, so much that I thought I lost it. (I had the street in the back of my mind). Turns out I underestimated where the ball went...I knew it straightened out a little bit, but the ball wound up about 3 feet off of the fairway in the deep stuff.
2nd shot: 5-iron, chunked the ball again, about 60 yards down the middle.
3rd shot: 56*, attempted to pitch the ball onto the green, under-hit it slightly, and came up a couple feet short of the green.
4th shot: 60*, just pitched the ball on, rolled the ball to within 5 feet of the pin.
One-putt bogey.
Hole 15: Par 5
1st shot: Driver, pushed the ball right, once again... this time I could not find it, and believe the ball wound up in a creek. Boy did I cream it though...
3rd shot: 3-wood, (from about 250), I came up around 50 yards short, in the center of the fairway. It was a pretty well-hit ball.
4th shot: Completely missed the ball with a 52*, sliced it right.
5th shot: 56*, pitched the ball onto the fringe, 15 feet short of the pin.
Two-shot double bogey.
Hole 16: Par 3
1st shot: 8-iron from 130. From the moment I made contact, it felt good. I had made perfect contact, and even was able to shape my shot a bit. Landed on the green to the left of the pin, spun the ball towards the hole about 3 feet, and gave myself about a 10 foot putt for birdie. (Finally had a chance to use my Greensaver again... great tool!)
Two-putt par. Rimmed the birdie putt around the left lip of the hole.
Hole 17: Long par 4
1st shot: Driver, ball had a slight push, and came off kind of high. I think the ball may have been tee'd up slightly too high, and the ground was not very soft...had a little resistance there. The ball popped up, and landed 2 feet off of the fairway on the right.
2nd shot: 3 wood: Felt GREAT, just pushed about 20 yards to the right. Got a great hop off of the cart path, back towards the green. Came up about 7 yards short of the green, in the rough, on a downhill slope.
3rd shot: 60*, had to be careful, as the hole path to the hole was downhill. I may have been more successful just putting from my vantage point. Anyways, I chipped it too softly, and was lucky enough to have the ball roll onto the edge of the green.
Two putt-bogey.
Hole 18: Par 4, uphill
1st shot: Driver, made great contact, with yet again, a slight push. The ball seemed to change trajectory about 3 times. Landed in a sand trap on the right.
2nd shot: Once again, I underestimated the softness of the sand, and got under the ball... punch it out about 20 feet onto the fairway.
3rd shot: 52*, made great contact, the ball landed where I was aiming, but I could not see where/if it rolled. Turns out the ball rolled past the hole about 15 feet, giving me a putt up-hill.
One-putt par. Rammed the ball in, to finish the day.
+8, 44.
Driving:
Driving felt extremely similar to the XDS, in that I was pushing the ball nearly ever time. If I could figure out why I am consistent pushing the ball, I would by setting myself up for some great approach shots. I doubt it's the ball that is causing the push/fade. At the same time, the ball was not going as far as my normal Callaway iZ tour goes, but I did not officially measure this. It was just the general feel.
Around the Green:
Honestly, I was more successful with the XD, than the XDS. I'm not sure what it is, to be honest.
Putting:
It felt pretty good. I didn't miss any putt horribly today.
Played a quick back nine today over lunch before watching the Masters and lost all the Polaras I had left, what a bummer. But I got a few holes in before I started spraying them all over the place.
Driving was still longer than ever and very long with the XDS, I'm amazed how long these things are comapred to the Xstar, Pro V1 and B330RX I've been playing regularly before. Accuracy was obviously there and I wasn't hitting them well so they had to work hard today.
Didn't hit many hyrbids today excpet for chipping around the green, the XDS still feels best with them.
My irons were way off today, so the Polara had it's work cut out and I thought they performed well. Kept me in play when I shouldn't have been and actually made the round more fun than it could have been. Which I think is the one thing this ball can do more than any other.
Short game, as I said in my previous post, the XD feels a bit dead, but the XDS performs and feels nice.
I bumped into a fellow who mentioned someone I passed and XD to had passed it to him and was anxious to take it out to the course and try it. Can't wait to here what they all say about it. I've told them to email it to me so I can forward it, but my guess is I'll need to transcribe it.
Driving was still longer than ever and very long with the XDS, I'm amazed how long these things are comapred to the Xstar, Pro V1 and B330RX I've been playing regularly before. Accuracy was obviously there and I wasn't hitting them well so they had to work hard today.
Didn't hit many hyrbids today excpet for chipping around the green, the XDS still feels best with them.
My irons were way off today, so the Polara had it's work cut out and I thought they performed well. Kept me in play when I shouldn't have been and actually made the round more fun than it could have been. Which I think is the one thing this ball can do more than any other.
Short game, as I said in my previous post, the XD feels a bit dead, but the XDS performs and feels nice.
I bumped into a fellow who mentioned someone I passed and XD to had passed it to him and was anxious to take it out to the course and try it. Can't wait to here what they all say about it. I've told them to email it to me so I can forward it, but my guess is I'll need to transcribe it.
VA. Vince
SC bound...
Played 18 today with the XD which is all I have left. I have come to the fact that I do not like the feel at all. I hit a few B330RX's along with the XD off the tee and the Bstone was the winner every time distance wise. Again the XD does what it claims, it does not correct itself as much as the XDS ( with my swing ) but does have some weird action, not as bad as the XDS. I did pull a few balls left which I have not done before with the XD and missed a few fairways but not by much.
Iron shots is the hard feel but still got them to bounce and check the few times I did hit a green. With irons the ball is not to bad but I would like some more softness for spin. Other than that I am fine with iron shots.
Wedge shots into greens was the same as irons, bounce and check.
Chip shots and pitch shots just roll out. This takes some getting used to but will perform once familiarized with the ball.
Putting just feels like a very hard ball but rolls just fine. Again I really like the arrow for lining up.
Overall I really think a high capper or someone that has been struggling with a bad slice these balls would be a mental game changer for them.
Iron shots is the hard feel but still got them to bounce and check the few times I did hit a green. With irons the ball is not to bad but I would like some more softness for spin. Other than that I am fine with iron shots.
Wedge shots into greens was the same as irons, bounce and check.
Chip shots and pitch shots just roll out. This takes some getting used to but will perform once familiarized with the ball.
Putting just feels like a very hard ball but rolls just fine. Again I really like the arrow for lining up.
Overall I really think a high capper or someone that has been struggling with a bad slice these balls would be a mental game changer for them.
d_in_la
Not so in LA.
POLARA 2012 Golf Ball Review
Short Game Testing
Date: March 26, 2012
Regular Gamer: Bridgestone e6
Clubs: Cleveland CG 11 in 56° and 60°
Ground: A little wet
-------------------------------------
First of all, sorry I haven't sat down to add more to this testing. Now that the weather is clearing up and another work phase is easing up I'll get more golf time. I have done a little testing and have a 9-hole under my belt, so here is the first of my on-course entries. I should get another 9 and hopefully a full 18 in this weekend.
-----
I got out for a little short game testing hit three of each ball from as close as possible to the same lie. I took a few pictures but realized that without any markings or having different colored balls ... not all that useful. I'l have to take a notepad with me so I can annotate the pictures next time.
As for my short game background my biggest issue is not committing to the shot. Although I tend to make pretty decent swings when I practice.
Anyhoo ... I took a spot about 40 yards from the green and hit a few rounds with my gamer ball, the Bridgestone e6, and the Polara XD and XDS balls. I was *not* using the alignment correction feature of the ball
Round 56°, land short of the green trickle to a front flag.
e6: I've been gaming this ball for a while, so I have some expectation of how it should behave. I was able to get this ball to hit the target area (mostly), bounce on the green and settle with a reasonable amount of roll. I wouldn't say I was accurate, but I wasn't bad.
XD: Again, some mixed hitting on my part, but I generally put the same swings on the XD as I did for my e6. While a sounding a little more "clicky" than the e6, there were multiple times I thought I should get the exact same result or better and I didn't, the XD rolled out. The XD had a wider dispersion but I felt like the dispersion was related to my ineffectiveness mixed with the less spin. The XD certainly felt harder, however.
XDS: I hit some good shots - some quick stoppers, some roll outs too. These definitely responded more like the e6 I game but not quite as grippy (this bears out in the next test). I would say that these felt softer than the XD and sounded closer to the e6. I know that it was wet but I feel like this ball may have responded better on a dry day.
Round 60° - Regular High 3/4 swing shot -not a flop. Trying to get the ball to one or two hop then stop or slightly roll.
e6: Like before, I'm familiar with this ball, did exactly expected. Definitely the softest feeling of the bunch, I was able to get this ball to jump off the clubface and while maybe "stop" wasn't exactly what it did, most of these were within up-and-down save distance.
XD: By this point the area I was practicing from was getting dryer and boy did it make a difference with the Polara balls. The XD still bounced and rolled out longer, but the gap wasn't nearly as large as the previous test. I wouldn't say I was comfortable with the XD at this distance, but I started to trust it.
XDS: By the time I started with the XDS the conditions had nicely dried up. I feel this was the reason behind the pretty good results that I ended up with. With the 60° the XDS was very similar to the e6 in terms of responsiveness. Much grippier than the XD. It appeared to my eye I was able to impart more spin on the XDS where the XD seems like it rebounded off the face. The e6 had a tighter dispersion, but the XDS, surprisingly, was not far behind.
At this stage, this is not enough information for me to give a fair review of the balls, but I will admit that the XDS impressed me. Are there softer balls? Sure, but at the end there, I felt like I could take advantage of the self-correcting features and still have a reasonably deft touch around the green. Me likey! I'm looking forward to getting the ball out and understanding the nuances of playing a full round with it. Heck, if I can get on the stupid difficult course up here, I may even get a round in without losing a ball!
Thanks for the patience everyone, I'll be much more diligent with my testing in the future.
Short Game Testing
Date: March 26, 2012
Regular Gamer: Bridgestone e6
Clubs: Cleveland CG 11 in 56° and 60°
Ground: A little wet
-------------------------------------
First of all, sorry I haven't sat down to add more to this testing. Now that the weather is clearing up and another work phase is easing up I'll get more golf time. I have done a little testing and have a 9-hole under my belt, so here is the first of my on-course entries. I should get another 9 and hopefully a full 18 in this weekend.
-----
I got out for a little short game testing hit three of each ball from as close as possible to the same lie. I took a few pictures but realized that without any markings or having different colored balls ... not all that useful. I'l have to take a notepad with me so I can annotate the pictures next time.
As for my short game background my biggest issue is not committing to the shot. Although I tend to make pretty decent swings when I practice.
Anyhoo ... I took a spot about 40 yards from the green and hit a few rounds with my gamer ball, the Bridgestone e6, and the Polara XD and XDS balls. I was *not* using the alignment correction feature of the ball
Round 56°, land short of the green trickle to a front flag.
e6: I've been gaming this ball for a while, so I have some expectation of how it should behave. I was able to get this ball to hit the target area (mostly), bounce on the green and settle with a reasonable amount of roll. I wouldn't say I was accurate, but I wasn't bad.
XD: Again, some mixed hitting on my part, but I generally put the same swings on the XD as I did for my e6. While a sounding a little more "clicky" than the e6, there were multiple times I thought I should get the exact same result or better and I didn't, the XD rolled out. The XD had a wider dispersion but I felt like the dispersion was related to my ineffectiveness mixed with the less spin. The XD certainly felt harder, however.
XDS: I hit some good shots - some quick stoppers, some roll outs too. These definitely responded more like the e6 I game but not quite as grippy (this bears out in the next test). I would say that these felt softer than the XD and sounded closer to the e6. I know that it was wet but I feel like this ball may have responded better on a dry day.
Round 60° - Regular High 3/4 swing shot -not a flop. Trying to get the ball to one or two hop then stop or slightly roll.
e6: Like before, I'm familiar with this ball, did exactly expected. Definitely the softest feeling of the bunch, I was able to get this ball to jump off the clubface and while maybe "stop" wasn't exactly what it did, most of these were within up-and-down save distance.
XD: By this point the area I was practicing from was getting dryer and boy did it make a difference with the Polara balls. The XD still bounced and rolled out longer, but the gap wasn't nearly as large as the previous test. I wouldn't say I was comfortable with the XD at this distance, but I started to trust it.
XDS: By the time I started with the XDS the conditions had nicely dried up. I feel this was the reason behind the pretty good results that I ended up with. With the 60° the XDS was very similar to the e6 in terms of responsiveness. Much grippier than the XD. It appeared to my eye I was able to impart more spin on the XDS where the XD seems like it rebounded off the face. The e6 had a tighter dispersion, but the XDS, surprisingly, was not far behind.
At this stage, this is not enough information for me to give a fair review of the balls, but I will admit that the XDS impressed me. Are there softer balls? Sure, but at the end there, I felt like I could take advantage of the self-correcting features and still have a reasonably deft touch around the green. Me likey! I'm looking forward to getting the ball out and understanding the nuances of playing a full round with it. Heck, if I can get on the stupid difficult course up here, I may even get a round in without losing a ball!
Thanks for the patience everyone, I'll be much more diligent with my testing in the future.
Nice review - D. I agree the balls have a very clicky sound, almost to me like the sound I hear from a standard range ball. I saw the same XD rollout and it was a real mental buffer for me to allow for more rollout. The XDS is the ball I would game out of the 2. The XD is longer (from my testing), but the added length doesn't overcome the lack of control around the green.
Polara is definitely got an improvement on their hands over last years models, and its great the 2 balls will work well for 2 different target audiences.
Polara is definitely got an improvement on their hands over last years models, and its great the 2 balls will work well for 2 different target audiences.
Some really good write ups over the last 2 days. Sounds like the XDS is the preferred ball out of these 2 given the improved green side control. Hope that golfers that see the commercials on Golf Channel, etc and are not necessarily keeping handicaps or concerned with USGA ball rules do a simple search and check this thread out. It was obvious to me last year when testing these that they do work as advertised and you guys are confirming that this time around with some improvement green side with the XDS. Keep up the solid work!
DawgDaddy
Old Coot
Just caught up again on the last 5 pages, you guys are doing a fantastic job. I love my current ball and would not even think of changing but I am thinking about getting some XDS balls to give a spin (pun intended) to see how these have improved over the models from last year. I was a tester for the older Polara's and I feel certain that they have made huge strides in improving this years model. Nice going testers and Polara.
I have no intention on changing balls, but I could see myself having 1 or 2 of these in the bag for 'BS' rounds or funny events.
Now I could see my wife using these pretty regularly as she is a very raw beginner who only plays a few times a year. She doesn't carry a handicap, gamble, play in events, etc. She just loves to go with our group of friends' wives, get dressed up, drive the cart, drink a bloody mary, and enjoy the sun & being outside. I am hoping these balls keep her interested in the game to where she can play enough where she gets enough practice and can transition to USGA approved balls.
We need to remember, golf balls are starting to be marketed like cars. There is a different ball for every type of player. Contrary to one execs beliefs, there is not a 'best ball' for every golfer.
DevRickus
The Dirty Jerz
I agree with this. This ball is terrific for beginners or people that struggle off the tee. It is really only designed to help off the tee and is supposed to play like a regular ball for all other shots. I have had no luck with the short game with these and that is generally one of my strengths. I will continue to test these and see if there is anything I am missing with them.
VA. Vince
SC bound...
If anything a softer cover would be great. Better compression and I think that would help some of the dive bombs. Either way The Polara ball does exactly what it advertises.
Tap-in Talking
Tap-in Talking
Mardin
New member
I would probably even reccomend the original Ultimate Straights for beginners because they drastically change and visually can change the direction of the ball. The XD and XDS I would consider a step up from the Ultimate Straight. I would have them give the US a try first then work them into the XDS/XD series, nevertheless these balls all do what they were designed to do: GO Straight. If I had to make a comparison based on how these balls fall in the company line categorically speaking, the US is more like a mid level ball like the Q-star where as the XDS line is more like the Z-Star (just a step up, providing more feel and spin around the greens).
VA. Vince
SC bound...
Glad to see there is a lot of views for this review. This morning there were 16 guest reading. I am playing Sunday with my father and brother, my Bro has a tendency to slice so I will give him the XD to see how he performs with it.
sangoram
Architectonically tuned
Anecdotal results:
I was out today playing a couple of holes 20XI-X against Polara XDS
Hole one 375 par 4.
Hit XDS low and straight and had 175 left (not a great driver swing)
Hit the 20XI-X on a low draw that ended up 50 yards farther (only cause it rolled across a practice green)
so 4i with the XDS straight but short,
9i with the 20XI-X also straight and just short of the green.
Chipped to 1.5 feet with 20XI-X (from about 17 yards), 12feet with the XDS (from about 25 yards). par save 20XI-X, 2 putt bogey with XDS.
Hole 2 105 yd Par 3.
20XI-X PW skull slice to 18 feet right of flag (got away with a bad swing)
XDS PW pull left 20 yards left and long of the flag still on green (good swing, shut club face on slight out to in path)
2 putt 20XI-X, 3 putt XDS.
From this I can conclude... nothing. My earlier analysis (see links below) really seems to suggest that with driver there was no real difference, uphill chips the 20XI-X stops a bit faster.
http://www.thehackersparadise.com/f...Golf-Ball-Forum-Reviews&p=1244226#post1244226
http://www.thehackersparadise.com/f...all-Forum-Review-Thread&p=1242785#post1242785
I messed around a little with downhill chips and here too, with varying technique (flop versus bump and runs versus neutral club position chips) the balls I looked at for this (20XI-S, Vision X3, Polara XD, Polara XDS) were all able to respond to the corresponding technique in terms of run out after landing...
I have to say objectively there is not a load of difference that I'm finding with these balls over any of the other ones.
I'll play some more holes with these up against the 20XI-X but then I'll probably give them away once I'm done testing to my dad who loves to play but doesn't play competitively and won't be turned off by the fact that these balls are non-conforming.
Just my two cents.
I was out today playing a couple of holes 20XI-X against Polara XDS
Hole one 375 par 4.
Hit XDS low and straight and had 175 left (not a great driver swing)
Hit the 20XI-X on a low draw that ended up 50 yards farther (only cause it rolled across a practice green)
so 4i with the XDS straight but short,
9i with the 20XI-X also straight and just short of the green.
Chipped to 1.5 feet with 20XI-X (from about 17 yards), 12feet with the XDS (from about 25 yards). par save 20XI-X, 2 putt bogey with XDS.
Hole 2 105 yd Par 3.
20XI-X PW skull slice to 18 feet right of flag (got away with a bad swing)
XDS PW pull left 20 yards left and long of the flag still on green (good swing, shut club face on slight out to in path)
2 putt 20XI-X, 3 putt XDS.
From this I can conclude... nothing. My earlier analysis (see links below) really seems to suggest that with driver there was no real difference, uphill chips the 20XI-X stops a bit faster.
http://www.thehackersparadise.com/f...Golf-Ball-Forum-Reviews&p=1244226#post1244226
http://www.thehackersparadise.com/f...all-Forum-Review-Thread&p=1242785#post1242785
I messed around a little with downhill chips and here too, with varying technique (flop versus bump and runs versus neutral club position chips) the balls I looked at for this (20XI-S, Vision X3, Polara XD, Polara XDS) were all able to respond to the corresponding technique in terms of run out after landing...
I have to say objectively there is not a load of difference that I'm finding with these balls over any of the other ones.
I'll play some more holes with these up against the 20XI-X but then I'll probably give them away once I'm done testing to my dad who loves to play but doesn't play competitively and won't be turned off by the fact that these balls are non-conforming.
Just my two cents.
Tadashi70
Well-known member
April 6,2012
ChampionsGate International Course
mid 80s with strong winds 20+
I played with friends/clients and thought it would be a good time to get some feedback from guys that carry a pretty high hdcp. I explained the premise behind the balls and let them play 3 holes on front. This feedback is both what I observed and their thoughts.
Observed
I have known these guys for years and played plenty of golf with them so I know their games very well. Brad is the worst of the bunch at making solid contact, so his ball could be down the middle, high left or low squirt right. The three holes he played with the Polara (par4,3&5), straight long drive on one, high straight shot on the par 3 over the left trap and the longest drive on the par 5 I have ever seen and then laced a 3w just short of the hole. His short game is suspect so no ball will help but he gutted a 10footer for par.
Wes, when playing well is easily a 12 hdcp but he tries to play a draw when he is not with me and picks all types of bad habits. After some time on the range we got him back on track with a soft fade down the left hand side. He played the same three holes that his brother (twins) played. He aimed left on the first hole for his fade and ball just stayed straight and carried the mounds on the left of the fairway. He hit a straight bullet on the par 3 just short of the back of the green and blocked his tee shot out of bounds on the third. (new ball on the back) His block right never had a chance to correct, in fact it was as flush of a ball I have seen him hit.
Sean, The Boss (literally Brad's boss), plays a sweeping hook on every shot. I have never seen him hit a straight ball or a fade in my life. His ball flights and shots on all three tee shots were dead straight and long. On the first and third hole the ball self corrected as soon as it left the club face and both hit the hard fairways and rolled away.
Now the ball does correct fat shots so his approach into the third hole was scratched from the test. But his approach into the first was a bit short but still dead straight with now hook after the ball again self corrected.
Their thoughts
Brad is always over the top about any success in his golf game because he is literally the poster child for 'blind squirel finds a nut'. He could believe how straight and long he was hitting it and wondered if he could get some more. I referred him to www.polaraGolf.com if he wanted more info and more balls (he kept the one he played with for a later date) he liked the way they felt off his putter and how they ran out on his chip around the green. 'I'd play these in a heart beat' were his exact words.
Wes thought they were a nice gimmic but felt they would never catch on. He said it felt like he was hitting stones when the ball was in play. 'I kept waiting for something drastic to happen' was his quote of the day. It gave him an uneasy feeling not knowing what the ball was going to do after impact. He is not really a fan.
Sean had mixed feeling but thought the ball would be a positive for someone else's game. He thought a straight ball was boring and showed a lack of imagination (half joking comment) 'long and straight is fine but it takes talent to hit a 40yd burning draw'. He too felt the ball was very hard and didn't like the feel off the putter.
Overall I would say the test was a success. I got three different opinions and saw the ball in play for a fourth. I've said in my other reviews, the ball when placed on the arrow or seam flies straight and hits the ground running. The abrupt correction is not easy for me or some others to see. But the ball have its own notch in the golf ball market. I just wonder if put to task in the proshop, how many will buy a sleeve of their usual OEM vs the Polara.
ChampionsGate International Course
mid 80s with strong winds 20+
I played with friends/clients and thought it would be a good time to get some feedback from guys that carry a pretty high hdcp. I explained the premise behind the balls and let them play 3 holes on front. This feedback is both what I observed and their thoughts.
Observed
I have known these guys for years and played plenty of golf with them so I know their games very well. Brad is the worst of the bunch at making solid contact, so his ball could be down the middle, high left or low squirt right. The three holes he played with the Polara (par4,3&5), straight long drive on one, high straight shot on the par 3 over the left trap and the longest drive on the par 5 I have ever seen and then laced a 3w just short of the hole. His short game is suspect so no ball will help but he gutted a 10footer for par.
Wes, when playing well is easily a 12 hdcp but he tries to play a draw when he is not with me and picks all types of bad habits. After some time on the range we got him back on track with a soft fade down the left hand side. He played the same three holes that his brother (twins) played. He aimed left on the first hole for his fade and ball just stayed straight and carried the mounds on the left of the fairway. He hit a straight bullet on the par 3 just short of the back of the green and blocked his tee shot out of bounds on the third. (new ball on the back) His block right never had a chance to correct, in fact it was as flush of a ball I have seen him hit.
Sean, The Boss (literally Brad's boss), plays a sweeping hook on every shot. I have never seen him hit a straight ball or a fade in my life. His ball flights and shots on all three tee shots were dead straight and long. On the first and third hole the ball self corrected as soon as it left the club face and both hit the hard fairways and rolled away.
Now the ball does correct fat shots so his approach into the third hole was scratched from the test. But his approach into the first was a bit short but still dead straight with now hook after the ball again self corrected.
Their thoughts
Brad is always over the top about any success in his golf game because he is literally the poster child for 'blind squirel finds a nut'. He could believe how straight and long he was hitting it and wondered if he could get some more. I referred him to www.polaraGolf.com if he wanted more info and more balls (he kept the one he played with for a later date) he liked the way they felt off his putter and how they ran out on his chip around the green. 'I'd play these in a heart beat' were his exact words.
Wes thought they were a nice gimmic but felt they would never catch on. He said it felt like he was hitting stones when the ball was in play. 'I kept waiting for something drastic to happen' was his quote of the day. It gave him an uneasy feeling not knowing what the ball was going to do after impact. He is not really a fan.
Sean had mixed feeling but thought the ball would be a positive for someone else's game. He thought a straight ball was boring and showed a lack of imagination (half joking comment) 'long and straight is fine but it takes talent to hit a 40yd burning draw'. He too felt the ball was very hard and didn't like the feel off the putter.
Overall I would say the test was a success. I got three different opinions and saw the ball in play for a fourth. I've said in my other reviews, the ball when placed on the arrow or seam flies straight and hits the ground running. The abrupt correction is not easy for me or some others to see. But the ball have its own notch in the golf ball market. I just wonder if put to task in the proshop, how many will buy a sleeve of their usual OEM vs the Polara.
d_in_la
Not so in LA.
Man you hit that right on the head DDXU - ALMOST like a (good) standard range ball, not quite. I also think that Polara, if more recreational golfers used them, could be a HUGE boon to the game. Faster rounds, more people playing/enjoying and maybe even driving the price of rounds down.
Yuuuup! I am going to whole heartedly recommend these to anyone I bring new to the game and anyone struggling and near giving up. Being out on the course is just flat out more enjoyable and relaxing when you can not stress out about the result. I'm writing a review after today's round about my mindset playing with the XDS.
I can't wait to see what they come out with next. I think the XDS is a real improvement over the XD. Looking forward to an ... XDXS?
DevRickus
The Dirty Jerz
On my way back from the course. Played the XDS and a Srixon Q-star side by side again. Great off the tee. ~10-15 yards less from the XDS for me. Still stunk it up on the short game with the XDS. Tons of roll out. Conditions were tough. Greens were very hard. I had more than usually roll out with the QStar. Shot an 80 with the QStar. Shot 89 with the XDS. The 9 strokes were pretty much all around the greens. Durability wise, I still have 2 each of the XDS and XD balls and they are holding up well. Like I have said previously the Polara balls do exactly as advertised. Accuracy off the tee is phenomenal. They definitely sound very clicky to me as well. My buddy noticed it too. He said "does that ball sound differently?"
Tap Tap Taparoo
Tap Tap Taparoo
Ole Gray
Mayor of the Woodshed
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2008
- Messages
- 31,292
- Reaction score
- 100
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- Watkinsville, Georgia
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You guys have really put out some awesome reviews :clapp:. A ton of work done here and we appreciate your efforts.
4/7/12 - Bent Tree CC
Polara XDS Testing - 9 Holes
I got out this morning for a quick 9 holes to do some testing, strictly with the Polara XDS. The first time I put these balls in play, I played with both the XD and the XDS and my initial impressions were that I preferred the XDS over the XD. I then played a round with the XD (http://www.thehackersparadise.com/f...907-Polara-2012-Golf-Ball-Forum-Reviews/page8), and while it was better than my initial round with the XD, it still wasnt a ball that I could see playing routinely.
I played decent today, shooting a +4, 40. 5 pars, 4 bogeys on the day.
Driver: When playing the XD, I said that it had quite a harsh feel to it. The XDS has a bit better feel to it, but still just doenst have than nice feel when hitting it with the driver. #1 at the course I played today is a long straight, par 5. Since I had been seeing a bit of a line drive ball with these, I decided to change the height in which I was teeing the ball up, and put it slighter higher than normal. The results on my first tee shot were actually pretty respectable, it did what it should do, it went straight, and gps'd the distance to 243 yards, the course was quite damp so there was absolutely no roll. For this being my first swing on the day with the XDS, I was pleased. Working on my course management, I only pulled driver on 4 holes on the front 9. 3 of the 4 shots resulted in a nice shot right down the middle, the 4th was a hard pull left in to the trees, no clue what happened there. My only issue with the XDS with the driver is the loss of distance. 240 yards seems to be about as best as I can get this ball to go, with my shortest driver of the day being 223 yards. I know others are seeing good distance with these, but it just isnt happening for me.
Fairway Wood: I used my 3 wood off the tee a couple times today, and have to say that the Polara balls just seem to be an overall better ball when you move to higher lofted clubs. I practically cringe when hitting them with the driver, but off the tee with my 3W today, it was decent. I tee'd the ball low, just slightly above the ground as I do normally with my 3W, and saw a mid-high ball flight. Longest of my two tee shots with the XDS and my 3W today measured out to 231, which is in the same area as what I was hitting with my driver. I know Polara in the past said to use higher lofted drivers for optimal performance, but it seems to me that even with their newer versions, a higher lofted driver/fairway wood is a must.
IronsWedges: I choose not to lift/align with these balls today with my irons, and again went with the club up/swing easier plan that I find works best with these. No harshness or bad feeling with the irons today, the overall feel of the XDS compared to the XD is great preferred. Ball flight with my irons seem to be just above a line drive, and just find it hard to get a higher ball flight that I would like. Distance was about average from what I see out of my irons, and in general I havent had issues with distance loss on my irons with the XDS. With the wedges, my plan was to just get it to the green and let it roll. I just can not get the ball to check up, the roll out is actually quite annoying, but going in to it with the though of just getting it to the green and letting it roll to the hole seemed to work quite well.
Putter: One of the first things I noticed about these balls was the "equator" around the entire ball that had no dimples. While I am sure it is designed that way for self-correcting purposes, I love it as an alignment aid for putting. I dont notice anything different when putting this ball compared to the balls I usually play. The only thing different I can tell is that there is a more audible sound off the putter face.
Random Thoughts:
- If I had to choose one ball over the other, it would be the XDS. I feel there is more distance to be had from the tee with it, and it just does not have the "harsh" feel that I find the XD gives me.
- I really hate having to align the ball on my tee shots. I feel that I am thinking more about where the arrow on the ball is pointing rather than focusing on my swing/shot.
- I would imagine that people that struggle with a push/pull would not have much success with these balls. While they definitely help reducing the power fade/slice, I have found that if I am pushing a shot right or pulling the shot left, that there is no chance at self-correcting that.
Overall, the XDS just seems to be the better of the two for me. It has a less nasty feel when hitting the driver, and while it still doesnt treat me great around the green, I find it to be significantly better than the XD. Distance loss is very apparent with my driver, but as I move to higher lofted clubs, it is not something that I notice as a problem. My next testing plan will be again with the XDS, and knowing that the driver will produce distance loss, I plan on bagging the driver for the round and using my 3W/hybrid from the tee, while comparing the XDS directly to my current gamer, Bridgestone B330-RXS.
Polara XDS Testing - 9 Holes
I got out this morning for a quick 9 holes to do some testing, strictly with the Polara XDS. The first time I put these balls in play, I played with both the XD and the XDS and my initial impressions were that I preferred the XDS over the XD. I then played a round with the XD (http://www.thehackersparadise.com/f...907-Polara-2012-Golf-Ball-Forum-Reviews/page8), and while it was better than my initial round with the XD, it still wasnt a ball that I could see playing routinely.
I played decent today, shooting a +4, 40. 5 pars, 4 bogeys on the day.
Driver: When playing the XD, I said that it had quite a harsh feel to it. The XDS has a bit better feel to it, but still just doenst have than nice feel when hitting it with the driver. #1 at the course I played today is a long straight, par 5. Since I had been seeing a bit of a line drive ball with these, I decided to change the height in which I was teeing the ball up, and put it slighter higher than normal. The results on my first tee shot were actually pretty respectable, it did what it should do, it went straight, and gps'd the distance to 243 yards, the course was quite damp so there was absolutely no roll. For this being my first swing on the day with the XDS, I was pleased. Working on my course management, I only pulled driver on 4 holes on the front 9. 3 of the 4 shots resulted in a nice shot right down the middle, the 4th was a hard pull left in to the trees, no clue what happened there. My only issue with the XDS with the driver is the loss of distance. 240 yards seems to be about as best as I can get this ball to go, with my shortest driver of the day being 223 yards. I know others are seeing good distance with these, but it just isnt happening for me.
Fairway Wood: I used my 3 wood off the tee a couple times today, and have to say that the Polara balls just seem to be an overall better ball when you move to higher lofted clubs. I practically cringe when hitting them with the driver, but off the tee with my 3W today, it was decent. I tee'd the ball low, just slightly above the ground as I do normally with my 3W, and saw a mid-high ball flight. Longest of my two tee shots with the XDS and my 3W today measured out to 231, which is in the same area as what I was hitting with my driver. I know Polara in the past said to use higher lofted drivers for optimal performance, but it seems to me that even with their newer versions, a higher lofted driver/fairway wood is a must.
IronsWedges: I choose not to lift/align with these balls today with my irons, and again went with the club up/swing easier plan that I find works best with these. No harshness or bad feeling with the irons today, the overall feel of the XDS compared to the XD is great preferred. Ball flight with my irons seem to be just above a line drive, and just find it hard to get a higher ball flight that I would like. Distance was about average from what I see out of my irons, and in general I havent had issues with distance loss on my irons with the XDS. With the wedges, my plan was to just get it to the green and let it roll. I just can not get the ball to check up, the roll out is actually quite annoying, but going in to it with the though of just getting it to the green and letting it roll to the hole seemed to work quite well.
Putter: One of the first things I noticed about these balls was the "equator" around the entire ball that had no dimples. While I am sure it is designed that way for self-correcting purposes, I love it as an alignment aid for putting. I dont notice anything different when putting this ball compared to the balls I usually play. The only thing different I can tell is that there is a more audible sound off the putter face.
Random Thoughts:
- If I had to choose one ball over the other, it would be the XDS. I feel there is more distance to be had from the tee with it, and it just does not have the "harsh" feel that I find the XD gives me.
- I really hate having to align the ball on my tee shots. I feel that I am thinking more about where the arrow on the ball is pointing rather than focusing on my swing/shot.
- I would imagine that people that struggle with a push/pull would not have much success with these balls. While they definitely help reducing the power fade/slice, I have found that if I am pushing a shot right or pulling the shot left, that there is no chance at self-correcting that.
Overall, the XDS just seems to be the better of the two for me. It has a less nasty feel when hitting the driver, and while it still doesnt treat me great around the green, I find it to be significantly better than the XD. Distance loss is very apparent with my driver, but as I move to higher lofted clubs, it is not something that I notice as a problem. My next testing plan will be again with the XDS, and knowing that the driver will produce distance loss, I plan on bagging the driver for the round and using my 3W/hybrid from the tee, while comparing the XDS directly to my current gamer, Bridgestone B330-RXS.
drewwood
New member
I made it out to the course yesterday and played 9 with the XD only.
Driver:
I was swinging the driver very well yesterday. I hit 5/7 fairways and the ones I missed were still in a good spot, only a couple yards from the short stuff. On the first hole I noticed that I hit it a little low on the face which to me seems to not let the ball do its thing. The distance was still very good, but no self correcting. For the rest of the day I teed it up a little higher and was catching it very solid on the face and the results were nice. Most of my drives ended up between the 260-280 range. Which I will take that all day long especially in the fairway!! I did see the "S" curve once that a few have mentioned on here, and I noticed a couple of shots take the nose dive once the ball reached its apex of flight. Most of the fairways at the course I was playing are uphill, so I haven't experienced the big roll out yet.
Hybrid:
I fell in love with the XDS the last time I was out with this club and the XD was the same. I don't know if I am concentrating more and just catching the ball better with this club, or the ball is really fitting the swing I have with my hybrid. Either way I am enjoying the results. On a 208 yd par 3 uphill my tee ball ended up just off the right side, but perfect distance. The ball flight was high, which is very normal for me. My aim was off or this would have been a great shot. I hit the hybrid again on the the next hole for my approach shot and saw the same ball flight from the fairway lie and the ball landed in a great spot. Both the XDS and the XD feel really good off of this club.
Irons:
Once again I really didn't hit any full iron shots other than wedges.
Wedges:
With a pitching wedge I liked the ball. I didn't noticed the lack of spin all that much, maybe a little. But nothing too dramatic. I hit a bunker shot from about 75 out and clipped it great off of the wet sand. The ball hit and rolled out about 8ft. I think on a "tour" ball I wouldn't have seen the run out, but it wasn't that big of a deal b/c my distance control was fine. On my chips with the 56* is where I struggled with this ball. I think part of it was mental, knowing that I wouldn't get the spin that I was used to so I was trying to land them shorter than I normally would play the shot to let it roll out. And I think the other part was just drawing some lies off the hard ground with little grass. The next time I go out I am just going to play them as I would the normal ball I use and see how that works out. Not really change anything.
Overall:
I liked the XD overall. I was playing well, mostly b/c of the way I was swinging the club, but the ball really performed too. There wasn't any wind to speak of so I can't comment on that. Good day on the course and a positive mark for Polara in my mind.
Driver:
I was swinging the driver very well yesterday. I hit 5/7 fairways and the ones I missed were still in a good spot, only a couple yards from the short stuff. On the first hole I noticed that I hit it a little low on the face which to me seems to not let the ball do its thing. The distance was still very good, but no self correcting. For the rest of the day I teed it up a little higher and was catching it very solid on the face and the results were nice. Most of my drives ended up between the 260-280 range. Which I will take that all day long especially in the fairway!! I did see the "S" curve once that a few have mentioned on here, and I noticed a couple of shots take the nose dive once the ball reached its apex of flight. Most of the fairways at the course I was playing are uphill, so I haven't experienced the big roll out yet.
Hybrid:
I fell in love with the XDS the last time I was out with this club and the XD was the same. I don't know if I am concentrating more and just catching the ball better with this club, or the ball is really fitting the swing I have with my hybrid. Either way I am enjoying the results. On a 208 yd par 3 uphill my tee ball ended up just off the right side, but perfect distance. The ball flight was high, which is very normal for me. My aim was off or this would have been a great shot. I hit the hybrid again on the the next hole for my approach shot and saw the same ball flight from the fairway lie and the ball landed in a great spot. Both the XDS and the XD feel really good off of this club.
Irons:
Once again I really didn't hit any full iron shots other than wedges.
Wedges:
With a pitching wedge I liked the ball. I didn't noticed the lack of spin all that much, maybe a little. But nothing too dramatic. I hit a bunker shot from about 75 out and clipped it great off of the wet sand. The ball hit and rolled out about 8ft. I think on a "tour" ball I wouldn't have seen the run out, but it wasn't that big of a deal b/c my distance control was fine. On my chips with the 56* is where I struggled with this ball. I think part of it was mental, knowing that I wouldn't get the spin that I was used to so I was trying to land them shorter than I normally would play the shot to let it roll out. And I think the other part was just drawing some lies off the hard ground with little grass. The next time I go out I am just going to play them as I would the normal ball I use and see how that works out. Not really change anything.
Overall:
I liked the XD overall. I was playing well, mostly b/c of the way I was swinging the club, but the ball really performed too. There wasn't any wind to speak of so I can't comment on that. Good day on the course and a positive mark for Polara in my mind.
Mardin
New member
I played the XD again on Saturday and it performed a little bit better off the tee than I had experiences before.
Driver/FW: The ball still feels like a rock coming off the face of my woods. I wasn't getting much better distance (still about -10 yard loss), but I did notice much better left to right ball flight that helped me find about 3/4 of my fairways all day. I blocked the ball about 3 times but this ball in my earlier rounds. My R11 is set to a lower loft normally, but after I hit the 3 blocks (you could consider one a slice even, I changed the setting on my R11 and increased the loft. Polara says that these balls for the XDS,XD, and Ultimate Straight product lines perform better with higher lofted clubs. This increase in loft seemed to help fix my ball flight as well.
Irons: I've been struggling with my irons as of late, so regardless of the ball I'd rather not comment on the XD's performance because I only had maybe 4-5 good iron shots all day.
Wedges: This is the weakest part of the XD's game. The wedge play with the XD just doesn't generate the same spin or even close to as the XDS. The XD struggled with pitch shots, short chips, and especially flop shots. I got no bite from this ball all day and it hurt my score at the end of the day.
Driver/FW: The ball still feels like a rock coming off the face of my woods. I wasn't getting much better distance (still about -10 yard loss), but I did notice much better left to right ball flight that helped me find about 3/4 of my fairways all day. I blocked the ball about 3 times but this ball in my earlier rounds. My R11 is set to a lower loft normally, but after I hit the 3 blocks (you could consider one a slice even, I changed the setting on my R11 and increased the loft. Polara says that these balls for the XDS,XD, and Ultimate Straight product lines perform better with higher lofted clubs. This increase in loft seemed to help fix my ball flight as well.
Irons: I've been struggling with my irons as of late, so regardless of the ball I'd rather not comment on the XD's performance because I only had maybe 4-5 good iron shots all day.
Wedges: This is the weakest part of the XD's game. The wedge play with the XD just doesn't generate the same spin or even close to as the XDS. The XD struggled with pitch shots, short chips, and especially flop shots. I got no bite from this ball all day and it hurt my score at the end of the day.
tdinbr
Water hazards are tough!
Lost the last of my XDS balls this past Saturday. Hole is a par 5, dogleg left and I have to hit 3 wood off the tee to avoid going into a ditch where the dogleg starts that runs down the entire right side of the fairway.
I usually come up 20-30 yds short of the ditch with my 3w. Hit a nice shot with the XDS and it just kept rollling and rolling until it took a big hop right into the ditch. Thought I would be able to find it, but no luck.
Was hitting a lot of low trajectory shots with the XDS which is not what I was getting the last time I played it. Was a bit strange.
I get a ton of rollout with this ball. Usually a good thing but in this case not so much...
I usually come up 20-30 yds short of the ditch with my 3w. Hit a nice shot with the XDS and it just kept rollling and rolling until it took a big hop right into the ditch. Thought I would be able to find it, but no luck.
Was hitting a lot of low trajectory shots with the XDS which is not what I was getting the last time I played it. Was a bit strange.
I get a ton of rollout with this ball. Usually a good thing but in this case not so much...
VA. Vince
SC bound...
Truth, massive forward spin on the XDS. I'm out of the XDS as well.