Casey Martin in the US Open?
Really cool. In the Golf Digest article, Martin says he tells his players at Oregon that they will never beat him. The second qualifier from from the Oregon sectional was one of his UO players, Daniel Miernicki.
DonJuan
Well-known member
I don't think it's right. It is not his constitutional right to play on the PGA. Would it be okay for someone who has poor vision to use binoculars and alignment rods? Once you start making exceptions the floodgates will open. A cart is an advantage. It's as simple as that.
spazzdog
New member
It's not an advantage for him... It's an aid and one that has to be approved by the tournament organizers.
thedue
Another Day in Paradise
Wasn't he there before? I don't remember the flood gates coming open.
What exactly is going to flow through the open floodgates? Are guys going to start faking debilitating genetic disorders? Maybe start chopping of limbs as a way to gain an edge?
TC
Keg Thrower
I reckon I agree. If you have to qualify, then qualify under the same conditions as your competitors.
Puttin4Bird
Say what again mf'er!
Whether or not you agree with him being able to use a cart or not is secondary because there's nothing we can do about it. I think it's cool that he qualified though. I hope he plays well.
TC
Keg Thrower
Perhaps. However, I prefer to see everyone qualify under the same exact conditions.
thedue
Another Day in Paradise
But he isn't playing golf under the smae conditions as everybody else. He can't walk, or he will have major issues. I understand that he doesn't have to walk the course and deal with the challenge of that, but nobody else is in danger of dying because they walked too much, except for maybe John Daly or Tim Herron.
It's a special exception. That much can be said.
spazzdog
New member
Here is an article written after the Supreme Court ruled in the Casey Martin case a while back... So yes, it is his "right" to use a cart if, by qualifying with his score he gains entry into a tournament.
Read the article... It's very informative regarding several misconceptions.
http://www.usga.org/Content.aspx?id=26191
And for the more legally versed, the Supreme Court decision
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-24.ZS.html
Read the article... It's very informative regarding several misconceptions.
http://www.usga.org/Content.aspx?id=26191
And for the more legally versed, the Supreme Court decision
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-24.ZS.html
I think what it boils down to is that golf traditionalists aren't into special exemptions - which I can understand and, to a degree, respect. Part of the purity of the game is its draconian application of the rules, even the ones that drive you nuts.
But it is also that dedication to the "purity of the game" that makes it feel stuffy to some people. If a guy can compete, and possibly win, with a condition that essential makes one of his legs useless then let him prove he can do it.
Smallville
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It's been decided almost 15 years ago. I felt the same way when it all happened back then, but he couldn't keep his card and didn't mess up the space time continuum so everything is good for me.
SharkHat
Aquatic Headwear Fanatic
I've never seen a PGA statistic that records how long it takes a player to walk the course.
I'd say that with the cart, even the reduced amount of walking that Casey will have to do will probably be more taxing on him than walking the full course will be to the rest of the field.
I'd say that with the cart, even the reduced amount of walking that Casey will have to do will probably be more taxing on him than walking the full course will be to the rest of the field.
I disagree. I think it is awesome that he can use a cart. I think to not let him because of tradition is stupid. There is no slippery slope involved in issues of life and death. Would it be different if he were an amputee from a war injury. My guess is no one would say a word of negative if that happened. This issue is simply he can't walk due to a physical ailment beyond his control.
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jmatt
Fat b4 the shafts were
I tend to be a traditionalist, but for this case...it's the law of the land, folks. This particular case, it's tough to argue. He's got a legitimate need for accomodation, it's a great story, and so on.
I just wouldn't want say, me (or Daly) be able to say "Ya know what? This walking thing is really tiring me out, and I can't play my best so I'm gonna ride".
I just wouldn't want say, me (or Daly) be able to say "Ya know what? This walking thing is really tiring me out, and I can't play my best so I'm gonna ride".
I completely agree with you, just saying I can understand the other side of the fence. The rules of golf ensure impartiality, not necessarily fairness, and this is the exact opposite - introducing an inequity to promote fairness.
I'd feel differently if I felt like the walk between shots was a relevant aspect of the game. To me, it's a bit like Byron Leftwich's teammates carrying him down the field between plays - as long as you can perform while the ball is in play, I don't care if you can run down field after the whistle.
TheGeekGolfer
Geek and Golf
I'm glad that he made it, really good of him to stick with it. Also have to root for a fellow Oregonian!
I can see both sides of the cart debate, however, I lean to the side of NOT being allowed to use it. Pro sports are not a regular job, they are based on certain conditions and excelling within those boundaries. He's not being denied his right to make a living, he can still do that. If I was the judge, I might have ruled differently. But, since they ruled he can use a cart, I wish him the best.
I can see both sides of the cart debate, however, I lean to the side of NOT being allowed to use it. Pro sports are not a regular job, they are based on certain conditions and excelling within those boundaries. He's not being denied his right to make a living, he can still do that. If I was the judge, I might have ruled differently. But, since they ruled he can use a cart, I wish him the best.
c0ncept
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Do you think they should allow carts to everyone on tour in order to combat the current issues of slow play?
Its not his Constitutional right, its a right secured to him by the Americans with Disabilities Act. I was following this very closely back in 1998, and you can make some pretty strong arguments either way. I was personally persuaded that he should be given the opportunity to play with a cart, but when I read Scalia's dissent I started leaning the other way. Golf is a game, and the rules are necessarily aribitrary and sometimes unfair. If the rules required you to walk down the fairway on your hands, you would eliminate a lot of competitors, but those would be the rules. Perhaps people would start leaving the USGA and form a new association that plays a game under different rules, but Scalia argued the USGA and PGA should be able to make whatever rules they want.
OTOH, the USGA should not be allowed to make rules that discriminate, such as rules that prohibit minorities, women, or people over 40 from competing. Similarly, they should not be allowed to make rules that discriminate unfairly against people with disabilities....
So, it all came down to whether walking the course was an essential part of playing golf. (you do not have to accommodate someone with a disability by changing an essential function of their employment). It was kind of absurd to listen to all these veteran golfers claiming that walking 4 miles in over 4 hours -- while your caddy does all the heavy lifting -- is some type of athletically taxing endeavor. I tended to agree with Martin's experts who said that exposure to the elements for 4 to 5 hours is really what wears you out, while the actual walking was not such a big deal.