2013 Morgan Cup - The Ultimate Amateur Golf Event

[JB]

I know it gets said quite a bit on the forums, but I guess I have been lucky. I have never encountered a teaching professional that wanted to completely tear down my swing or anybody else that I have been around during lessons. They always incorporate natural movements and work on a couple of things to tweak at a time.

Although if the end result is hitting the golf ball better and a professional does not think that can happen with the current swing, I could see wanting to make major changes. Honest question for those out there, if you are in that 14-18 range (or really any golfer for that matter) and you know you have flaws in your swing, what is wrong with major changes? Is it the "getting worse before better" stage?

Why not completely rebuild if you want to put the time in and become a better golfer? Genuine honest question from someone that is going through it now and knows that I wanted to go through it before the Morgan Cup last year.

 

[wadesworld]

Since we are talking about pro's and instruction leading up to the MC, can I ask a question?

Does every pro you guys see want to tire your swing completely down and start over?? Why do they all think you have to play a draw to be a good golfer?? I don't mind playing a fade...heck if it's good enough for Jack...but the first thing they want to do is get me swing inside out to hit a draw.

Tim,

I think you need to have a conversation with your pro and understand what he's trying to accomplish.

I'm a fade hitter too, and my pro is also trying to get me swinging inside-out. But it's not just so I can hit a draw, and not just because he's lazy or stuck in his ways. As we looked at my swing on Trackman, he explained how my over-the-top move is causing an out-to-in path. Normally I'd be pulling the ball like crazy, but I actually do a pretty amazing job of getting the clubface square at impact. So, most of my shots are pretty darn good considering what I have to do to make them go straight.

The problem with my current swing is that because I have to chicken-wing at the last second to keep the clubface square, I can't possibly release correctly. But even more important than the distance lost with a lack of release is the inconsistency of my improper swing path. If I can get on a more correct swing path, I won't need to make this amazing last-second compensation and as a result, I should gain consistency.

After watching the video, I'm pretty convinced he's right. Could I become a good golfer with my current swing? Probably. I've seen guys with uglier swings than I who are single-digit handicappers. But I do think there would be a limit to what I could accomplish without a proper release.

So talk to your pro. See for what reasons he wants you to change what you do. You might find it's for good reasons.

 

[dcbrad]

Sure would I like to be able to hit a draw when it calls for it....damn skippy

But I don't think my swing is so far off that they want to start from scratch and do a complete rebuild either....but the last couple of people I have tried have been that way...I am still looking for a new instructor....but no luck yet.

I think you know what you want Tim, so don't settle for sure.

 

[mikedean441]

I know it gets said quite a bit on the forums, but I guess I have been lucky. I have never encountered a teaching professional that wanted to completely tear down my swing or anybody else that I have been around during lessons. They always incorporate natural movements and work on a couple of things to tweak at a time.

Although if the end result is hitting the golf ball better and a professional does not think that can happen with the current swing, I could see wanting to make major changes. Honest question for those out there, if you are in that 14-18 range (or really any golfer for that matter) and you know you have flaws in your swing, what is wrong with major changes? Is it the "getting worse before better" stage?

Why not completely rebuild if you want to put the time in and become a better golfer? Genuine honest question from someone that is going through it now and knows that I wanted to go through it before the Morgan Cup last year.

I dont think Id be totally opposed to starting over, but I think the perception is that it would take more time and money than the "quicker fix" of the existing swing.

Havent came across anyone wanting to team mine down....yet

 

[Hawk]

I know it gets said quite a bit on the forums, but I guess I have been lucky. I have never encountered a teaching professional that wanted to completely tear down my swing or anybody else that I have been around during lessons. They always incorporate natural movements and work on a couple of things to tweak at a time.

Although if the end result is hitting the golf ball better and a professional does not think that can happen with the current swing, I could see wanting to make major changes. Honest question for those out there, if you are in that 14-18 range (or really any golfer for that matter) and you know you have flaws in your swing, what is wrong with major changes? Is it the "getting worse before better" stage?

Why not completely rebuild if you want to put the time in and become a better golfer? Genuine honest question from someone that is going through it now and knows that I wanted to go through it before the Morgan Cup last year.

I sort of went into things last year with the mindset that I'd do whatever he said. Mainly because I knew what I was doing didn't work and I had a lot of time to make any changes. Plus, I wasn't playing golf much due to the weather, so I didn't feel the pressure to revert when things weren't going smoothly. I will say that I've never had a conversation with my instructor about swing path, hands, or any of the other things that I tried to diagnose on my own. We focused far more on the big movements that led to better results without over thinking the small stuff. I'm glad I did it. Wish I'd done it a year earlier to be honest. While 8 months was enough time to improve a lot, I think two years will really have me in a good spot. Hoping so at least.

 

[dcbrad]

I know it gets said quite a bit on the forums, but I guess I have been lucky. I have never encountered a teaching professional that wanted to completely tear down my swing or anybody else that I have been around during lessons. They always incorporate natural movements and work on a couple of things to tweak at a time.

Although if the end result is hitting the golf ball better and a professional does not think that can happen with the current swing, I could see wanting to make major changes. Honest question for those out there, if you are in that 14-18 range (or really any golfer for that matter) and you know you have flaws in your swing, what is wrong with major changes? Is it the "getting worse before better" stage?

Why not completely rebuild if you want to put the time in and become a better golfer? Genuine honest question from someone that is going through it now and knows that I wanted to go through it before the Morgan Cup last year.

I think that makes a person hesitant when deciding whether to do a rebuild or get lessons. It boils down to one thing: "If you are that serious about getting better, are you willing to put in the work to do it and deal with the struggles along the way?"

I basically just committed to it. It's funny what a competition like this can do to you when it comes to giving you that push for improving your game. A good amount of it rides on not wanting to let my team down, but also wanting to improve my game as well. If I wasn't going to be in the Morgan Cup this summer, would I be doing this? Maybe. But I bet you I wouldn't be practicing as much during the week as I am, and if I wasn't doing that, would I be progressing as much as I have? No probably not.

While I've made strides, this game always finds a way to humble you, that's for sure!

 

[Smallville]

I know it gets said quite a bit on the forums, but I guess I have been lucky. I have never encountered a teaching professional that wanted to completely tear down my swing or anybody else that I have been around during lessons. They always incorporate natural movements and work on a couple of things to tweak at a time.

Although if the end result is hitting the golf ball better and a professional does not think that can happen with the current swing, I could see wanting to make major changes. Honest question for those out there, if you are in that 14-18 range (or really any golfer for that matter) and you know you have flaws in your swing, what is wrong with major changes? Is it the "getting worse before better" stage?

Why not completely rebuild if you want to put the time in and become a better golfer? Genuine honest question from someone that is going through it now and knows that I wanted to go through it before the Morgan Cup last year.

For someone like me, if they wanted to completely rebuild my swing, and I trusted them, sure. But for someone like you, Freddie, or someone else who is a low single digit, you obviously are doing something right, so there should be no need to start over.

 

[dcbrad]

I sort of went into things last year with the mindset that I'd do whatever he said. Mainly because I knew what I was doing didn't work and I had a lot of time to make any changes. Plus, I wasn't playing golf much due to the weather, so I didn't feel the pressure to revert when things weren't going smoothly. I will say that I've never had a conversation with my instructor about swing path, hands, or any of the other things that I tried to diagnose on my own. We focused far more on the big movements that led to better results without over thinking the small stuff. I'm glad I did it. Wish I'd done it a year earlier to be honest. While 8 months was enough time to improve a lot, I think two years will really have me in a good spot. Hoping so at least.

I think that's a great point. Not being able to go out and actually play makes it easier I think. The ONLY advantage to living in a cold weather state.

 

[JB]

For someone like me, if they wanted to completely rebuild my swing, and I trusted them, sure. But for someone like you, Freddie, or someone else who is a low single digit, you obviously are doing something right, so there should be no need to start over.

Not necessarily. Freddie, maybe, but he taught the swing and is far superior to where I am. People reach a point of diminishing returns. With a swing flaw like mine, I was never going to be the golfer I wanted to be and it takes a toll on the body more than a proper swing might. So in speaking to professionals, I knew I needed to fix that.

Then compound that with making myself healthier along the way and I knew something like the Morgan Cup would motivate me to get there.

 

[Hawk]

I think that's a great point. Not being able to go out and actually play makes it easier I think. The ONLY advantage to living in a cold weather state.

It was a big relief not to have to worry about what I was going to shoot on Sunday for sure. I just focused on practice for a few months. I had my ups and downs during the season, but I was almost always able to pull myself out of a funk.

 

[TripleBogieTim]

I know it gets said quite a bit on the forums, but I guess I have been lucky. I have never encountered a teaching professional that wanted to completely tear down my swing or anybody else that I have been around during lessons. They always incorporate natural movements and work on a couple of things to tweak at a time.

Although if the end result is hitting the golf ball better and a professional does not think that can happen with the current swing, I could see wanting to make major changes. Honest question for those out there, if you are in that 14-18 range (or really any golfer for that matter) and you know you have flaws in your swing, what is wrong with major changes? Is it the "getting worse before better" stage?

Why not completely rebuild if you want to put the time in and become a better golfer? Genuine honest question from someone that is going through it now and knows that I wanted to go through it before the Morgan Cup last year.

JB, you are more that likely correct....it is probably the whole getting worse before I get better issue....I get aggrivated I guess because I feel like if I can shoot mid to low 80's right now with this swing...then a few tweaks could get me into the upper 70's and low 80's most of the time and I would be happy with that....the problem is more that likely with me and not with the instructors.

Tim,

I think you need to have a conversation with your pro and understand what he's trying to accomplish.

I'm a fade hitter too, and my pro is also trying to get me swinging inside-out. But it's not just so I can hit a draw, and not just because he's lazy or stuck in his ways. As we looked at my swing on Trackman, he explained how my over-the-top move is causing an out-to-in path. Normally I'd be pulling the ball like crazy, but I actually do a pretty amazing job of getting the clubface square at impact. So, most of my shots are pretty darn good considering what I have to do to make them go straight.

The problem with my current swing is that because I have to chicken-wing at the last second to keep the clubface square, I can't possibly release correctly. But even more important than the distance lost with a lack of release is the inconsistency of my improper swing path. If I can get on a more correct swing path, I won't need to make this amazing last-second compensation and as a result, I should gain consistency.

After watching the video, I'm pretty convinced he's right. Could I become a good golfer with my current swing? Probably. I've seen guys with uglier swings than I who are single-digit handicappers. But I do think there would be a limit to what I could accomplish without a proper release.

So talk to your pro. See for what reasons he wants you to change what you do. You might find it's for good reasons.

Very good post and repped for it! you and I seem to have the same swing....I have the chicken wing issues too and I have lost a a ton of distance in the last several years. I guess I just need to buy into what they are doing and go with it.....it's just hard to seemily start from scratch....plus it's expensive too.

 

[KellyBo]

Great conversations going on in here. I used to have that big fade too. I went into lessons with a completely open mind and a true desire to improve my swing. My instructor got rid of my fade very fast. I loved getting rid of it and usually hit a very straight ball now. The fade cost me serious distance and I hate it when it creeps back into my game. Luckily, I can still hit a fade on demand and use it occasionally. I say don't fight it.

 

[JB]

JB, you are more that likely correct....it is probably the whole getting worse before I get better issue....I get aggrivated I guess because I feel like if I can shoot mid to low 80's right now with this swing...then a few tweaks could get me into the upper 70's and low 80's most of the time and I would be happy with that....the problem is more that likely with me and not with the instructors.
.

Truthfully, I always thought that too, but if your swing is causing a few big misses here and there as well as some other constant issues, sometimes a plateau is reached.

 

[TripleBogieTim]

I think that's a great point. Not being able to go out and actually play makes it easier I think. The ONLY advantage to living in a cold weather state.

Thats a big part of my problem too...living here I play at least once a week but usually twice...and it's hard to get a lesson and have something completly different going on and go out and play.....its very demoralizing...at least to me.

Plus I have never been a range rat....It bores me to tears.....I end up beating balls and wearing myself out in 20 minutes.

 

[Canadan]

I probably wouldn't be willing to go through a full swing overhaul. I'm happy with my output and think I've got a decent swing. Right now it's more about tweaks for me. I don't have a 'big' miss, just a couple goofy mistakes that cause me trouble.

If I had to pick one thing to overhaul, it'd be my putting stroke. It is what costs me the most strokes right now.

 

[dcbrad]

It was a big relief not to have to worry about what I was going to shoot on Sunday for sure. I just focused on practice for a few months. I had my ups and downs during the season, but I was almost always able to pull myself out of a funk.

I'm excited to see how the work I've been putting in will translate come March-April. Even at my range session last Friday with tnolan, he noticed a big change. It will be nice to go play a competitive round with him this year instead of me just hacking around the course. He'll never admit to it, but there were times I know I was bringing his game down because of mine. Not that I was being a jerk or anything on the course, but when someone is playing bad, it can take it's toll on the other golfer.

 

[ddxu]

I wouldnt be willing to go through a complete swing overhaul either. I've only broken 80 twice, but play golf because its fun and because I love the way it brings people together. With practice & playing time as rare as it is for most people, I wouldnt want to be miserable for the several months it would take for an overhaul. Time/money is just too precious.

 

[Hawk]

I'm excited to see how the work I've been putting in will translate come March-April. Even at my range session last Friday with tnolan, he noticed a big change. It will be nice to go play a competitive round with him this year instead of me just hacking around the course. He'll never admit to it, but there were times I know I was bringing his game down because of mine. Not that I was being a jerk or anything on the course, but when someone is playing bad, it can take it's toll on the other golfer.

I can remember the first time I took the new swing out on grass and I was pretty pumped. The ball didn't go right every time yay

 

[dcbrad]

Thats a big part of my problem too...living here I play at least once a week but usually twice...and it's hard to get a lesson and have something completly different going on and go out and play.....its very demoralizing...at least to me.

Plus I have never been a range rat....It bores me to tears.....I end up beating balls and wearing myself out in 20 minutes.

I used to hate the range. Dhill and I have talked about this as well, but when you go in with a goal or two to accomplish, it can really help (me, at least) make the range session much more enjoyable. Hell I hit a 100 or so balls at my last range session, and was really making some good progress the last 20 or so balls I hit. I went back and got a small bucket because I felt like I was on to something.

First time in my life I went back to get balls after hitting a bucket. That's just my opinion though, different things work for everyone. Maybe going out on the course and playing multiple balls/hole (if the course isn't busy) may be something that is better suited to you.

 

[Wake]

When I first started taking lessons at golftec, the pro talked with me about what I was looking for out of the lessons. We decided to work with what I had, and I made improvements quickly and consistently. That pro moved to Canada, and I decided to stay at Golftec with a different pro. He convinced me to build a new swing, and the progress was slow and painful at times. However at this point I am very glad I did. It is really paying off and really should pay off by the time the MC rolls around.

 

[dcbrad]

I can remember the first time I took the new swing out on grass and I was pretty pumped. The ball didn't go right every time yay

I got excited when I wasn't constantly hitting them right in the dome! It's a fun feeling

 

[TripleBogieTim]

Truthfully, I always thought that too, but if your swing is causing a few big misses here and there as well as some other constant issues, sometimes a plateau is reached.

I'm sure you are right Josh, it's just tough to commit too.....there is a reason that I can go out and shoot 79 one day and 99 the next and it's because of my inconsitant swing, it's probably the same thing thats caused some of my back issues that I deal with now. I was able with a few tweaks to go from a 20+ a little over a year ago to a 13 today, and I really did that by myself and with the help of Freddie and a few others guys around here.

But if I expect to get any better or more consistant, I am going to have to trust the pro and do the work. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Hawk]

You can do it if you want to, Tim. Your improvement last year shows you what you are capable of.

 

[TripleBogieTim]

You can do it if you want to, Tim. Your improvement last year shows you what you are capable of.

Thanks bro.

Right now I am in a bad spot because I had started working with this guy and he made some changes and then he took a job and moved across the country and now I am "inbetween" swings if that makes sense....I can't seem to go back to my old swing, so one day is good, the next is really ugly.

Did you use a local guy or GolfTEC Hawk?

 

[Chunkylover77]

I think for me, I'm a bit of a masochist. I enjoy tearing my swing down and learning a new one. The journey to me is fun. Plus I enjoy the range probably more than the course