Hey everyone I just wanted to know what kind of shaft was better for a beginner. Graphite (regular) or uniflex steel? I'm having a hard time finding a set of Callaway x22's on ebay with regular graphite shafts for my brother.....
Graphite or Steel shafts?
- Admin
- #2
There is no right or wrong answer. It is all about each person and what works better with their swing. I recommend trying both on a launch monitor and go with what works better.
BruiserBob
New member
provisional
Could Care Less
The only difference I would add might be that steel shafts tend to be shorted in length then graphite for the same club. I just measure two 5 irons. Same club, one graphite, and one steel shafted. The graphite is 1/2" longer. The shorter steel shaft "might" give better control. The longer graphite shaft "might" give you a yard or two more distance.:confused2:
- Thread starter
- #6
Good info, i'll have him look into that. I know there is a difference in shaft strenghth with the graphite example: stiff, regular, and light ........what are these differences?
provisional
Could Care Less
There is no consistency among shaft maufacturers as far as stiff, regular, or women/senior flexes, or as you put it "strengths". One company's regular flex shaft might be another company's stiff shaft. Flexes are based on a golfer's swing speed for the most part. But there are exceptions. My swing speed rates me as needing a stiff shaft, but I score better with regular flex shafts in my current set of clubs. Only a qualified club fitter can identify the correct flex a golfer will need.:comp:
- Thread starter
- #8
thanks for the insight.........
BrandonM7
New member
I honestly think it's more difficult to consistently swing a lightweight shafted club than a heavy shafted club. You hand a very light club (like a 65-gram graphite-shafted iron) to a person that doesn't yet have solid fundamentals and a smooth swing, and it's light enough that they can more easily make alterations and "corrections" along the way in their swing - overcontrolling the club, which very rarely has a positive outcome. But like JB said, everyone is different so trying them out is the best bet. In general though I believe it's easier to swing a light club fast, but easier to swing a heavy club straight -- heck, that's why they have those super-heavy training clubs. So don't get him graphite just because he's a beginner - there's a very good chance he'll play them much worse than steel.
Fourputt
Head Rules Official
Why do you want graphite? In my opinion, there should be a finite reason for choosing graphite. After all, graphite is usually more expensive, and the perceived performance gains don't really warrant the added cost unless you are shopping for a really soft lady's or senior flex. Graphite also tends to have more twisting torque, thus making it potentially more difficult square up the clubface at impact.
Just FYI, I'm in the process of buying some X-22's with the standard uniflex steel shaft. I hit several different clubs and the X-22 with steel felt the best to me.
- Thread starter
- #11
Just to fix the first post, he's not really a beginnier. He can drive the ball straight as an arrow with the diablo driver I have and it has a graphite shaft. So I just suggested that he get the x22's with regular graphite, do you guys suggest the "stiff" graphite instead? Would the stiff graphite feel more like a steel?
BigLeftyinAZ
Well-known member
Graphite shafts are for people generally for slower swing speeds,who are looking to pick up a few MPHS. Also Graphite has a greater vibration dampening effect and thus for folks with joint issues .
There are other options then Graphite-You can look into lightweight steel and install pro soft inserts to reduce the vibrations.
http://www.myostrichgolf.com/clubmakers/product_info.php?products_id=157
Another steel shaft option would be Nippon shafts.They offer lightweight and regular weight shafts.The way they are made(Materials) offer vibration dampening.
http://www.nipponshaft.com/main.html
There are other options then Graphite-You can look into lightweight steel and install pro soft inserts to reduce the vibrations.
http://www.myostrichgolf.com/clubmakers/product_info.php?products_id=157
Another steel shaft option would be Nippon shafts.They offer lightweight and regular weight shafts.The way they are made(Materials) offer vibration dampening.
http://www.nipponshaft.com/main.html
JPsuff
Banned
I've never understood the purpose of graphite shafts for irons.
They're too "twisty" and too unreliable in terms of consistency in how they flex. I believe that an iron should have a steel shaft because steel shafts are low-torque by nature (often under 2-degrees) and thus more control can be gained by their use. Irons are not "distance" clubs, they're "target" clubs and eliminating as much uncertainty as possible should be a top priority in shafting irons and steel is still the best choice for consistency and control.
Woods, on the other hand, are almost required to have graphite shafts as their head weight is designed for a very lightweight shaft. I think this is almost a case of extortion on behalf of the manufacturers in that the head weight designed into today's "woods" are such that a standard steel shaft (like a Dynamic Gold shaft) simply renders the club too heavy to swing comfortably.
I've proven this to myself by installing steel shafts into various driver heads I have (TM425 TP & Nike SQ TP) as well as a few Nike fairway metals and each one felt as if I were swinging a sledgehammer because the overall club weight increased by at least 40 grams and when I set up the swingweights to my liking (D-6 - D-7) it felt as if I had to drag the club to the tee.
As far as the idea that graphite increases swing speed, that's true, but only in a nominal manner. At best, an increase of maybe 3 m.p.h. can be realized which doesn't really translate into all that much in terms of distance and the claims of 30 to 40 yard distance gains are simply not true - at least as far as the shaft weight is concerned, Such distance increases might be possible because of other factors such as tip stiffness, overall shaft flex, kick points (minimally) as well as face angles and shaft length. But by weight alone, any increase in distance and swing speed is usually quite modest.
-JP
They're too "twisty" and too unreliable in terms of consistency in how they flex. I believe that an iron should have a steel shaft because steel shafts are low-torque by nature (often under 2-degrees) and thus more control can be gained by their use. Irons are not "distance" clubs, they're "target" clubs and eliminating as much uncertainty as possible should be a top priority in shafting irons and steel is still the best choice for consistency and control.
Woods, on the other hand, are almost required to have graphite shafts as their head weight is designed for a very lightweight shaft. I think this is almost a case of extortion on behalf of the manufacturers in that the head weight designed into today's "woods" are such that a standard steel shaft (like a Dynamic Gold shaft) simply renders the club too heavy to swing comfortably.
I've proven this to myself by installing steel shafts into various driver heads I have (TM425 TP & Nike SQ TP) as well as a few Nike fairway metals and each one felt as if I were swinging a sledgehammer because the overall club weight increased by at least 40 grams and when I set up the swingweights to my liking (D-6 - D-7) it felt as if I had to drag the club to the tee.
As far as the idea that graphite increases swing speed, that's true, but only in a nominal manner. At best, an increase of maybe 3 m.p.h. can be realized which doesn't really translate into all that much in terms of distance and the claims of 30 to 40 yard distance gains are simply not true - at least as far as the shaft weight is concerned, Such distance increases might be possible because of other factors such as tip stiffness, overall shaft flex, kick points (minimally) as well as face angles and shaft length. But by weight alone, any increase in distance and swing speed is usually quite modest.
-JP
BigLeftyinAZ
Well-known member
I'd agree on your statement regarding 3 mph gain.Remember for every 1 mph is 3 yards.So, if one could gain 3,that could equate to 9 yards which would be one club difference into hitting the green.Could make the game easier for some?Hitting an 8 instead of 7 could be the difference for some and may help?
- Admin
- #15
Big Lefty is 100% correct. For every 1 mph we see 3-4 yards distance, based entirely on hitting the sweet spot 100% (done by the robot in shaft testing). 9-12 yards per club would help a whole lot of people.
MO_Hacker
At the drag strip
JPsuff
Banned
Maybe.
But it seems far simpler to me to just go to another club.
Say you're trying to cut a pice of wood with a small saw and you're having a hard time. Do you figure out ways to use that saw more aggressively? Or do you just get a bigger saw?
Your profile says that you're a scratch player. So I'm sure that you understand the nuances of using an iron; you can draw it, fade it hit it high, hit it low and so on. That is a far better way to look at irons than simply in terms of distance. Once a player establishes his or her average distance ("index number") for each club, that should be used as the basis for choosing a club for a given shot and any "tweeners" are dealt with by either varying the shot shape (draws go farther and lower/fades go shorter and higher) or selecting a different club using a club's "index number" as a starting point.
In my opinion, the only time this won't work is when one has reached the longest iron and there is no "longer" iron to perhaps hit a fade with or "choke down on". But how often does that situation really present itself and when it does, there's always a hybrid or a fairway wood to go to. Just like the saw is a tool, so too is an iron. And if the situation calls for a "longer tool", then use one!
-JP
- Admin
- #18
But you are forgetting that not everybody is a scratch golfer and the shorter the club the easier for many to hit it.
JPsuff
Banned
I'm not forgetting that, it's what I'm basing my opinions on.
The average amateur - when told that he'll get 3 m.p.h. / 9 yards more out of a graphite shaft - isn't going to settle for that, but will rather most likely swing even harder to get even more and that will have him spraying the ball all over the place because what precious little timing he had to begin with is now totally screwed up. All the more reason to stick with steel shafted clubs and going up a club when needed.
The trouble is that most people watch the pro's and when they hear about things like de-lofting, compression, optimization and such, they immediately try to incorporate these things into their game. The reason why that doesn't work is because unlike the pro's who hit a few thousand balls a week, the average amateur hits maybe one bucket a week before his Sunday round and he hasn't the swing, much less the timing to have any of that stuff work for him.
Take optimization, for example. A swing can only be "optimized" if there exists a reliable and repeatable motion from which to make adjustments. But the average player's swing changes from week to week and often from shot to shot, so the idea of "fitting" this person with some kind of custom setup is absurd. It's like trying to set the ignition timing on an engine with a worn timing chain; it can't be done because the camshaft's rotation varies too much because of the worn chain. Fix the chain so that the camshaft's rotation is predictable and then the timing can be set to within fractions of a degree.
Same thing with graphite shafts versus steel shafts. If a players swing has been honed to the point where every swing is a virtual carbon copy of the one before, then sure, all of the little nuances of shaft weight and swing angles will payoff. But if the average player has trouble making basic contact from a tight fairway lie (about 80% of the golfing public), what he needs more than anything else is practice, not new shafts.
-JP
- Admin
- #20
While that is the case in technical terms, take someone like my playing partners. They are all about 10 handicaps or so and love the fact that they switched from steel to graphite shafts and they all got 1 club longer on their high irons. For them hitting a 7 iron instead of a 6 iron is extremely important and part of the reason that they are a 10 handicap and not a 14-15 handicap.
Its about comfort. Its about confidence. Its about all sorts of different things for each person.
Its about comfort. Its about confidence. Its about all sorts of different things for each person.
JPsuff
Banned
I agree with you.
I'm not saying that none of this actually works, it's just that after 40 years of playing this game I think I have a pretty good grasp of human nature and how the average person approaches golf. From what I've seen over the years, the "more is better" mentality far outweighs any more sensible approach and most people will take something that works and exaggerate it to a point where whatever advantage they might have enjoyed once is long gone.
That's why I believe that 90% of the people who play golf could do very well with an "off the rack" set of clubs, a basic setup of club length, loft and lie and regular flex shafts. Remember, finely tuned equipment can only enhance a good swing - it can't create one.
-JP
dynarider
insert witty saying here
Old graphite shafts from 10 years ago may possibly have been that way. Not anymore though.
- Admin
- #23
Graphite Design and Fujikura would agree with you dyna.
JPsuff
Banned
Maybe so, but considering that the players on the PGA Tour generally employ new technology before the paint is dry, one would think that there'd be an awful lot of players out there using graphite in their irons. Yet there are barely a handful of pro's using graphite.
There has to be a reason for that. :confused2:
-JP
dynarider
insert witty saying here
So us weekend hackers with slow swings speeds should emulate the pro's & use the exact same equipment they do?
As far as pro's not using graphite, I have no idea how many do. JB could probably find out though.