Graphite or Steel shafts?

[brio_1976]

As a very high handicap player I switched to graphite shafts in all my clubs this year. I previously had graphite R7 XD's and before that a set of no name irons with steel shafts. I found my distances increased and didn't get the vibration that I did with steel shafts.

I also had a session in a golf simulator with steel and graphite shafted X20 6 irons and like others have said graphite gave me more club head speed and about 10 yards.

I even have graphite shafted wedges and I really like them.

 

[JB]

Maybe so, but considering that the players on the PGA Tour generally employ new technology before the paint is dry, one would think that there'd be an awful lot of players out there using graphite in their irons. Yet there are barely a handful of pro's using graphite.

There has to be a reason for that. :confused2:


-JP

That is why we tell everybody to get fitted and not to use what the pros use.

 

[JPsuff]

So us weekend hackers with slow swings speeds should emulate the pro's & use the exact same equipment they do?

As far as pro's not using graphite, I have no idea how many do. JB could probably find out though.

Did I say that?

I'm just making the observation that if graphite were comparable with steel in terms of reliability and torque, then the pro's would be using them in a heartbeat, but they're not.

I'm sure that dozens of people could post testimonials here singing the praises of graphite for irons, but that still doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of golfers of all skill levels - especially the pro's - prefer steel shafts in their irons.

As I wrote earlier: There has to be a reason for that.


-JP

 

[clg82]

Did I say that?

I'm just making the observation that if graphite were comparable with steel in terms of reliability and torque, then the pro's would be using them in a heartbeat, but they're not.

I'm sure that dozens of people could post testimonials here singing the praises of graphite for irons, but that still doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of golfers of all skill levels - especially the pro's - prefer steel shafts in their irons.

As I wrote earlier: There has to be a reason for that.


-JP

Then what is the reason for that?

 

[JB]

Actually I think more people play steel for a couple of reasons.
1. They see the pros playing it and think they should
2. Cost
3. They do not get fitted properly. The same reason people play stiff shafts.

I play steel and like it quite a bit. But I think it is different for every person.

 

[BigLeftyinAZ]

Maybe.

But it seems far simpler to me to just go to another club.

Say you're trying to cut a pice of wood with a small saw and you're having a hard time. Do you figure out ways to use that saw more aggressively? Or do you just get a bigger saw?

Your profile says that you're a scratch player. So I'm sure that you understand the nuances of using an iron; you can draw it, fade it hit it high, hit it low and so on. That is a far better way to look at irons than simply in terms of distance. Once a player establishes his or her average distance ("index number") for each club, that should be used as the basis for choosing a club for a given shot and any "tweeners" are dealt with by either varying the shot shape (draws go farther and lower/fades go shorter and higher) or selecting a different club using a club's "index number" as a starting point.

In my opinion, the only time this won't work is when one has reached the longest iron and there is no "longer" iron to perhaps hit a fade with or "choke down on". But how often does that situation really present itself and when it does, there's always a hybrid or a fairway wood to go to. Just like the saw is a tool, so too is an iron. And if the situation calls for a "longer tool", then use one!


-JP

I see your point and do understand it.Of course people need to find the right clubs to play this game.whether it be more fwy woods or hybrids replacing certain irons.
I also see it that most need to learn their distance with each club and to be able to hit a couple of different yardages with each club. and therefore choosing the proper club for the shot.Fully agree with you.

Regardless though,It's still easier to use the shorter clubs then it is the longer ones. So, if someone is able to gain 10 yrds,one club length,the game should be easier to play just by having a shorter club in their hand,no?

ASk any one this question,Would you rather hit a 7 iron into the green or an 8 iron.Almost certain all would say 8,only cause it's suppose to be easier to hit.

Now,I'm not saying one should muster up and hit the shorter club farther then they can.If you can gain some yardage without any extra effort,why wouldn't you want to do that?

 

[JPsuff]

Actually I think more people play steel for a couple of reasons.
1. They see the pros playing it and think they should
2. Cost
3. They do not get fitted properly. The same reason people play stiff shafts.

I play steel and like it quite a bit. But I think it is different for every person.

I think you're right about the cost and the ego, but I really don't think that people play steel because they see the pro's playing steel. I think that steel is popular because it works and it's a proven technology. I think a lot of people stay away from graphite for a couple of reasons; the first of which is that they think graphite is for "old people" or that they think they'll break them if they swing hard and chunk a shot.

As far as shaft flex is concerned, if one chooses a shaft because some pro uses it, then that's silly. But there are people out there on the weekends who do quite nicely with Stiff and even Extra-Stiff shafts. That too depends on the person.

I myself was talked into going with Stiff shafts by some golf shop guy long ago and I didn't know any better so I agreed to get them. I had nothing but trouble with them and after doing some research on my own, I decided that I needed X-100's instead of the S-300's that were sold to me. So after getting a bunch of blank stares from the golf shop guys when I asked them if they could order a set of X-100's for me, I decided to re-shaft my own clubs.

So I got a Golfworks catalog (this was way before the internet) and I ordered up a set of X's from them along with all the fixin's and I've played those shafts for over 20 years now and I absolutely love them. Not only that, but the whole experience is what got me into club building and I've been tinkering ever since.

So yes, a lot of people don't need what they think they need, but sometimes they need more than what they're told they need.


-JP

 

[BigLeftyinAZ]

Did I say that?

I'm just making the observation that if graphite were comparable with steel in terms of reliability and torque, then the pro's would be using them in a heartbeat, but they're not.

I'm sure that dozens of people could post testimonials here singing the praises of graphite for irons, but that still doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of golfers of all skill levels - especially the pro's - prefer steel shafts in their irons.

As I wrote earlier: There has to be a reason for that.


-JP

Pro's or good Amateur choose Steel for accuracy over distance.Once you are at that level most are not looking for more distance with irons.They already hit it far enough.It's about control.
Another reason for steel is the extra weight.I can't swing light weight steel for the life of me.I get to quick with light weight clubs.It's about tempo,timing and control over your own swing.

I also stated that one can look into light weight steel shafts,instead of graphite.Also linked to Nippon which is a great light weight shaft company.There shafts have a great vibration damping factor over other equal quality steel shafts. Those and graphite are for those who have joint issues and the vibration of the shaft bother their joints.

 

[JB]

I think a lot of people stay away from graphite for a couple of reasons; the first of which is that they think graphite is for "old people" or that they think they'll break them if they swing hard and chunk a shot.



-JP

That right there was my point. It is about education and ego. If they learn that graphite COULD help them depending on the golfer, than a switch could work. But young men will not do it, just like they wont switch to regular flex.

 

[JPsuff]

Pro's or good Amateur choose Steel for accuracy over distance.Once you are at that level most are not looking for more distance with irons.They already hit it far enough.It's about control.
Another reason for steel is the extra weight.I can't swing light weight steel for the life of me.I get to quick with light weight clubs.It's about tempo,timing and control over your own swing.

I also stated that one can look into light weight steel shafts,instead of graphite.Also linked to Nippon which is a great light weight shaft company.There shafts have a great vibration damping factor over other equal quality steel shafts. Those and graphite are for those who have joint issues and the vibration of the shaft bother their joints.

I'm with you 100% especially the "tempo,timing and control over your own swing" part.

The only lightweight steel shaft I've ever tried was a Dynamic Gold SL. I hated it. It felt like steel spaghetti and had weird feel overall. I know that True Temper had to compete with the graphites and such, but let's just say that the "SL" was not one of their finer moments. As I said, I love my Plain-Jane Dynamic Gold shafts. True Temper got it right with them years ago and they haven't changed much over the years - they're just your basic golf club shaft that works.

If I ever get a chance to try the Nippons, I will. But after the "SL" fiasco, any lightweight steel shaft would be a hard sell for me.


-JP

 

[BigLeftyinAZ]

I'm with you 100% especially the "tempo,timing and control over your own swing" part.

The only lightweight steel shaft I've ever tried was a Dynamic Gold SL. I hated it. It felt like steel spaghetti and had weird feel overall. I know that True Temper had to compete with the graphites and such, but let's just say that the "SL" was not one of their finer moments. As I said, I love my Plain-Jane Dynamic Gold shafts. True Temper got it right with them years ago and they haven't changed much over the years - they're just your basic golf club shaft that works.

If I ever get a chance to try the Nippons, I will. But after the "SL" fiasco, any lightweight steel shaft would be a hard sell for me.


-JP

Your timing/tempo and even transition may not require lightweight shafts.Not everyone does.
Nippon also offers regular weight shafts.That model is called Super Peening.You may even prefer those over your standard X-100's.I know I do.

X-100's to me feel like rebar.There is no feel to the shafts.DG got it right with the DG tour shaft.It's dubbed the x7.I'm not referring to the new DG tours with the PX label.those are different then the shafts I'm referring to.
These x7's are suburb.X100 control with feel to the shaft.Maybe another way to explain it would be x100 stiffness and control with s300 feel.

Same for the blue super peening from nippon,stiff enough with feel to it.

 

[JPsuff]

Your timing/tempo and even transition may not require lightweight shafts.Not everyone does.
Nippon also offers regular weight shafts.That model is called Super Peening.You may even prefer those over your standard X-100's.I know I do.

X-100's to me feel like rebar.There is no feel to the shafts.DG got it right with the DG tour shaft.It's dubbed the x7.I'm not referring to the new DG tours with the PX label.those are different then the shafts I'm referring to.
These x7's are suburb.X100 control with feel to the shaft.Maybe another way to explain it would be x100 stiffness and control with s300 feel.

Same for the blue super peening from nippon,stiff enough with feel to it.

Funny you should write about this because when I switched over to irons using parallel tip shafts, I noticed the "rebar" feel right away. I grew up on taper-tips and played them for years and they always had a nice smooth feel in the tip section.

When I switched over to parallel tip shafts, that smoothness was not there. For years I lived with it until I flipped through a golf rag and read one of those "What's in my bag" pieces. The pro they were spotlighting mentioned that he soft-stepped his iron shafts and said that they felt a bit smoother.

At the time, I didn't know what soft-stepping was but when I looked into it, I thought that it might be what I was looking for. So, I decided to give it a try and it turned out to be just what I needed. The soft-stepping makes the parallel tip shafts feel very much like my old taper-tips but they still play like X-100's. Or to put it the way you did: "x100 stiffness and control with s300 feel." and that's exactly how they feel and now I'm totally comfortable with them.


-JP

 

[BigLeftyinAZ]

Funny you should write about this because when I switched over to irons using parallel tip shafts, I noticed the "rebar" feel right away. I grew up on taper-tips and played them for years and they always had a nice smooth feel in the tip section.

When I switched over to parallel tip shafts, that smoothness was not there. For years I lived with it until I flipped through a golf rag and read one of those "What's in my bag" pieces. The pro they were spotlighting mentioned that he soft-stepped his iron shafts and said that they felt a bit smoother.

At the time, I didn't know what soft-stepping was but when I looked into it, I thought that it might be what I was looking for. So, I decided to give it a try and it turned out to be just what I needed. The soft-stepping makes the parallel tip shafts feel very much like my old taper-tips but they still play like X-100's. Or to put it the way you did: "x100 stiffness and control with s300 feel." and that's exactly how they feel and now I'm totally comfortable with them.


-JP

Please don't get me started on Parallel tip shafts,that's another subject,LOL.

It's amazing what soft or hard stepping can do for fitting a person.Changes flex by 1/3

 

[biggsy]

Great info in this thread.