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Why Club fitting is important

JB said:
Actually both do that. But let me see if I understand this right. You are arguing something that you have never done and never experienced and obviously know very little about?

:confused2:
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Not at all.

I'm simply saying that detailed fitting of equipment is only going to optimize what a person can already do and that they can only learn to that through practice. Detailed fitting isn't going to make someone play better.

In my opinion, basic fitting is all 95% of the golfers in this world will ever need to play this game at a competent or even at an advanced level. Detailed fitting will only benefit someone who can already produce solid results from a given piece of equipment and simply wants to wring out the last bit of performance from that equipment.

But the idea that someone who is currently having trouble hitting greens from 150 yards out is somehow going to start knocking down flagsticks because they spent some time in a launch monitor and were then sold a bunch of new equipment is ridiculous. It may make them THINK they can, which in and of itself is fine. But that would be more psychological than tangible.


-JP
 
JB said:
Actually both do that. But let me see if I understand this right. You are arguing something that you have never done and never experienced and obviously know very little about?

:confused2:
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Besides that.Where am I or any club maker/fitter say "Hey, get fitted and we can get you to a 2 handicap"

He practiced and honed his skills to become good.Plus he already had the talent. Maybe he would have played better had he been properly fitted.
From the sounds of things he is much older then us and fittings back then were very basic.
It isn't untill the last 10 years that their has been a break through in fittings and fully understanding shafts and stuff.

I'm sorry not just anyone will ever play scratch or close unless you have raw talent.
 
JPsuff said:
Not at all.

I'm simply saying that detailed fitting of equipment is only going to optimize what a person can already do and that they can only learn to that through practice. Detailed fitting isn't going to make someone play better.

In my opinion, basic fitting is all 95% of the golfers in this world will ever need to play this game at a competent or even at an advanced level. Detailed fitting will only benefit someone who can already produce solid results from a given piece of equipment and simply wants to wring out the last bit of performance from that equipment.

But the idea that someone who is currently having trouble hitting greens from 150 yards out is somehow going to start knocking down flagsticks because they spent some time in a launch monitor and were then sold a bunch of new equipment is ridiculous. It may make them THINK they can, which in and of itself is fine. But that would be more psychological than tangible.


-JP
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You must be the only one with this thinking. I've never heard a golfer think that just cause he is getting fitted will be knocking pins down.

Getting fitted helps a player swing more consistent.
 
JPsuff said:
No, once again: practice does that.


-JP
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Once again you are arguing a point that you have no idea about. You have never gone through a fitting. Nobody here and certainly NO fitter in the world will tell you that fittings take the place of practice. However clearly you are in a world all your own. You dont believe in fittings, lessons, etc... and still think that your way is the right way. Despite you have never tried the options.
:banghead:
 
JPsuff said:
OK.

I'd love to hear how that works.


-JP
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Very simple. Most play clubs that are too long.If the person can play to a 12 he for sure will be shooting better scores with better fitting clubs.

Most also play a shaft that is too stiff for them.Once they have been fitted properly,you may notice a touch more distance and better control.

Having the correct swingweight helps a person keep club on plane better.

All of these together helps a person's game/swing.

Now, Proper installation of the shaft will also help.We must get the shafts to all perform the same and kick in the same direction.
Another added feature to help one's game.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLeftyinAZ View Post

Getting fitted helps a player swing more consistent.



JPsuff said:
No, once again: practice does that.


-JP
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Can you explain to me how if someone is playing clubs that are too long and shafts that are too stiff and a lie angle too flat for them be able to make a consistent swing?

All of those are factors for one to be able to make a more consistent type of swing.

It's takes more then a swing to play scratch golf. One needs a good game plan,Short game,be a good putter and have a good mental game.
All of those make a scratch golfer not just a swing or fitted clubs
 
BigLeftyinAZ said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLeftyinAZ View Post

Getting fitted helps a player swing more consistent.






Can you explain to me how if someone is playing clubs that are too long and shafts that are too stiff and a lie angle too flat for them be able to make a consistent swing?

All of those are factors for one to be able to make a more consistent type of swing.

It's takes more then a swing to play scratch golf. One needs a good game plan,Short game,be a good putter and have a good mental game.
All of those make a scratch golfer not just a swing or fitted clubs
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You know, I truly believe that you're trying to make a good case for fitting and that you really believe in it with all of your heart, but you're trying to prove your point by telling me what I've been saying all along which is that BASIC FITTING -- SPECIFICALLY FOR LIE, LENGTH AND SHAFT FLEX are all that anyone needs.

I have never wavered from that premise and I have mentioned it at least a half dozen times. Yet here you are trying to prove me wrong by telling me the very same thing that I've been advocating from the very beginning.

So in essence, you've just made my argument for me.


-JP
 
JPsuff said:
You know, I truly believe that you're trying to make a good case for fitting and that you really believe in it with all of your heart, but you're trying to prove your point by telling me what I've been saying all along which is that BASIC FITTING -- SPECIFICALLY FOR LIE, LENGTH AND SHAFT FLEX are all that anyone needs.

I have never wavered from that premise and I have mentioned it at least a half dozen times. Yet here you are trying to prove me wrong by telling me the very same thing that I've been advocating from the very beginning.

So in essence, you've just made my argument for me.


-JP
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How is that?You've been telling us that fitting a person won't make them better. You really must have a screw loose to not recall your argument.
It's all about practice to you..

Sorry, It's both.It's much easier to swing a club that fits you ,isn't it?
 
BigLeftyinAZ said:
How is that?You've been telling us that fitting a person won't make them better. You really must have a screw loose to not recall your argument.
It's all about practice to you..

Sorry, It's both.It's much easier to swing a club that fits you ,isn't it?
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Face it Lefty, as much as you want to drag my argument through the mud, you can't do it, so why not stop now before you embarrass yourself?

You know damned well what I'm saying and you just don't want to admit it.

But if if it makes you happy to continue to distort everything I write and take my words out of context, then knock yourself out.


-JP
 
JB said:
You dont believe in fittings, lessons, etc... and still think that your way is the right way. Despite you have never tried the options.
:banghead:
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JB, stop putting words in my mouth, OK?

I never said that I don't believe in lessons. What I said was that I PERSONALLY never took any lessons but that if someone wants to take lessons that's fine.

And for the hundredth time, I never said that I don't believe in fitting a person to a golf club. What I said was that a BASIC FITTING -- SPECIFICALLY FOR LIE, LENGTH AND SHAFT FLEX is all that 95% of the golfing public needs to get good at this game.


Are we clear on that now?


-JP
 
I see a LOT of begginers and semi begginers at the range....

Swings so ungodly awful BAD no fitting except for a baseball bat would help.

My coworker. every iron goes about the same distance. 75 yards or less. no swing. every shot is a chip. for him, clubs will never make the difference.

A occasional golf budyy.. club throwing fiend. tries to kill the ball every time. the only thing he needs fitting for is how far he can throw the club.

fitting should work for the serious learner, but wont help the once a month playa.
 
JPsuff said:
Face it Lefty, as much as you want to drag my argument through the mud, you can't do it, so why not stop now before you embarrass yourself?

You know damned well what I'm saying and you just don't want to admit it.

But if if it makes you happy to continue to distort everything I write and take my words out of context, then knock yourself out.


-JP
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Can't embarrass myself cause I know the truth. There is more to it now then ever before.Club guys didn't have the knowledge 20-30 years ago.Things have changed drastically over the last 10 years and more so in the last 5.
There is now a better understanding of how shafts perform and how they should work.

Because of this many club techs were fitting incorrectly.Times have changed and so have proper fittings. Once can't use static measurements anymore.That theory has been proved incorrect
 
BigLeftyinAZ said:
Can't embarrass myself cause I know the truth. There is more to it now then ever before.Club guys didn't have the knowledge 20-30 years ago.Things have changed drastically over the last 10 years and more so in the last 5.
There is now a better understanding of how shafts perform and how they should work.

Because of this many club techs were fitting incorrectly.Times have changed and so have proper fittings. Once can't use static measurements anymore.That theory has been proved incorrect
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Lefty it isn't worth it. The arguments never cease to amaze me. He is arguing a point that is quite valid from 10 years ago just like he has in every other thread. Dont waste your breath. Its like saying Dial Up works to get you online the same as high speed does, so most do not need it. But why not use technology to your advantage if you can.
 
JPsuff said:
JB, stop putting words in my mouth, OK?

I never said that I don't believe in lessons. What I said was that I PERSONALLY never took any lessons but that if someone wants to take lessons that's fine.

And for the hundredth time, I never said that I don't believe in fitting a person to a golf club. What I said was that a BASIC FITTING -- SPECIFICALLY FOR LIE, LENGTH AND SHAFT FLEX is all that 95% of the golfing public needs to get good at this game.


Are we clear on that now?


-JP
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So by your theory S is just an S? Sorry to burst your bubble ,but there are many different types of s flex shafts.We now study profiles of shafts.the Butt frequency means diddly squat now.
As I stated in the OP The flex from manufactures differ from one another.Wouldn't it be wise to be fitted to your proper flex profile?
 
JB said:
Lefty it isn't worth it. The arguments never cease to amaze me. He is arguing a point that is quite valid from 10 years ago just like he has in every other thread. Dont waste your breath. Its like saying Dial Up works to get you online the same as high speed does, so most do not need it. But why not use technology to your advantage if you can.
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I know,but it's fun for me.LOL. My job is to inform the non informed people.


Have you ever wondered why you can hit certain shafts better then others?Even though they may be an S flex or whatever flex of shafts you would normally fit yourself into?

Shaft fittings are now based upon Tempo,transition,where they unload the shaft and then speed.It's not just speed that dictates the flex.
 
Just throwing this out there but since your body changes as you age what once worked might not, even as your swing improves etc........so it might be a good idea to fit yourself every so often.....

Maybe I am younger or buying into the hype etc, but I am waaaay too competitive to not try and squeeze every last ounce of performance out of my clubs and since it is so easy to do why not? A long walk in the short grass beats the heck out of a short walk back to the tee!
 
kidzwitgunz said:
Just throwing this out there but since your body changes as you age what once worked might not, even as your swing improves etc........so it might be a good idea to fit yourself every so often.....

Maybe I am younger or buying into the hype etc, but I am waaaay too competitive to not try and squeeze every last ounce of performance out of my clubs and since it is so easy to do why not? A long walk in the short grass beats the heck out of a short walk back to the tee!
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Absolutly.Why wouldn't anyone want the best for them is beyond me. Yes, we should get checked every year.

My perfect example is me. 4yrs ago my clubs were 3* up from my normal specs.2 years ago my specs changed back to my normal standard specs. This year i'm looking at going to 2 * up or leave my hands feeling lower then they should be.I like it,but feel I'm be more comfortable bringing my hands up.either way my clubs need to be adjusted to fit either swing.
So in 4 years my specs have changed 3 times. And yes, I was altering my swing during those times.It's still a work in progress and I hoping to be down the last journey. I'm liking where my swing is,just needs a touch of tiding up.
 
Yeah I started out at 1 and 3/4 in longer than standard and 2* up, now I am about an inch long and 1.75* up to help keep my hands/wrists where I feel my sweet spot is.

As far as shaft flex I have started at R, gone to X-stiff, and am now very happy with a stiff or 4.5 rifle no clue why I am "technically" less on a rifled shaft but the spec's don't lie. As far as my actual swing goes I haven't made any major adjustments to it since late 04, it just seems that the longer I play my std. deviation from a more avg. length and lie is getting less......again I couldn't tell you why though? :banghead:
 
Every brand type of shaft have different bending properties.What I mean is certain shafts droop more then others.Because of this alone,It will require different lie angles to keep the club face level at impact.
Hope that makes sense?
 
Yea it makes sense, but also at the same time it doesn't kind of..........

Only thing I can compare it to is firearms, since I know them a little more intricately, but with barrels, etc stiff is stiff, torsion/compensation is just about physics of the ammo, not neccessarily what each OEM defines as "standard" because in the end it is always gonna take at least X strenght to handle X bullet weight and powder/ballistic co-effecient.

Speaking of club fitting I wonder if every major club fitter started doing "blind" fittings not factoring in brand name/style if the major golf companies would still be in favor of this. For example if people were just shown the results only and had to choose off of those then had the maker revealed. Or would this actually work?
 
It works, and is pretty much the way I get my fittings done. Every couple of years, or when I buy a new set of irons I go to at least three different club fitters. On is Callaway, one is Ping, and the third is a local club fitter I trust. Both the Callaway, and Ping fitters sell multiple brands of clubs, so they have no idea what I am buying. I am not going to buy Callaway, or Ping irons, but their fittings are very useful to me. 99% of the time, I get the same specs from all three, and is how I order my irons from TE. The local club fitter I trust gets to fit, and sell me my driver, hybrids, and fairway woods which are always components.

kidzwitgunz said:
Yea it makes sense, but also at the same time it doesn't kind of..........

Only thing I can compare it to is firearms, since I know them a little more intricately, but with barrels, etc stiff is stiff, torsion/compensation is just about physics of the ammo, not neccessarily what each OEM defines as "standard" because in the end it is always gonna take at least X strenght to handle X bullet weight and powder/ballistic co-effecient.

uld this actually work?
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Speaking of club fitting I wonder if every major club fitter started doing "blind" fittings not factoring in brand name/style if the major golf companies would still be in favor of this. For example if people were just shown the results only and had to choose off of those then had the maker revealed. Or wo
 
All of my demo irons have the shafts blank.No labels.Only difference is when PX's are used.Can't disquise those very well.Client has no idea on flex or style of shaft other then PX and has no clue as to weight of shaft.I use same heads just different shafts.Closest to blind as I can get with fitting people.
My shafts only have a label with a number on it.

Reason why I do this is so a client can't tell me he doesn't like a shaft due to it's weight or Manufacture of shaft by it's OEM markings.He/she is going to have to hit the club and see results for themselves.
before any decisions are made.
 
Wow. This thing is getting pretty heated:at-wits-end: Let us wooosaah together!
If anyone cares, both sides of this argument seems to have valid points. I do not see the need for the disagreeing sides to get what seems to be upset.
I do believe some of us golfers do think that just a "fitting" session will make us better golfers without practice. But the other side says a "fitting" session will do us good without practice. Is this the argument? Well I can see both sides. Doesn't my opinion make everyone happy?!?!?:D
 
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