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Is fitting for your miss a good idea?

Nippon Shafts
Hawk

Hawk

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Hear me out! I get a little wrapped up in my thoughts some times.

This is mainly centered on driver fitting and has been on my mind quite a bit as I finish up testing much of the 2013 line of offerings.

What I noticed is that there was a group of drivers that could give me some amazing numbers on above average to good strikes, but were pretty tough on my common misses. This wasn't so much about forgiveness in the traditional sense of losing ball speed or spraying the ball, but rather big drops in spin that were exclusive to my particular miss.

My thought process was that I'd like to try a combo that could offer me some more spin, to the point that it might not be 100% optimal on those great swings. The hope was that it would be more conducive on the miss-hits, by offering me some more cushion in the spin category.

It seems to have worked as intended. I'm seeing about 300-400rpm more back spin on both the good and bad shots. Giving a little to get a little. What do you all think? Trust me, I know how easy it is to get wrapped up in the results from those great swings. I'm starting to wonder if it's worth looking at the total picture a little more, as opposed to fitting based on the optimal result for an optimal swing? If you were fit, did you talk about or address your common misses (and how you could mitigate them) during the fitting?
 
Man, you're getting deep in here. I honestly don't know, I have never thought about it til now but if the miss is more consistent than close to perfect impact then I say yes. I did not discuss the miss with my fitter, it never really came up based on other numbers.
 
Good topic! I been thinking the same thing. I will gladly lose a little on those good days/swings to gain a more consistent ball flight on the bad days/swings. When I'm in the fairway it makes up for 20 more yards that's in the trees.
 
I'm with you 100% Hawk. When I did my driver fitting the combo I ended up with wasn't giving me the best numbers out of the bunch on my PERFECT swings, but it was a WHOLE lot more consistent, and wasn't terrible on my worst swings. I could probably squeeze a few more yards out of a different setup, but I'll take the consistency and misses that I can still play with anyday of the week.
 
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Trout Bum said:
Man, you're getting deep in here. I honestly don't know, I have never thought about it til now but if the miss is more consistent than close to perfect impact then I say yes. I did not discuss the miss with my fitter, it never really came up based on other numbers.
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LOL sorry Trout. I literally never stop thinking. My brain is a mess.
 
Wake said:
I'm with you 100% Hawk. When I did my driver fitting the combo I ended up with wasn't giving me the best numbers out of the bunch on my PERFECT swings, but it was a WHOLE lot more consistent, and wasn't terrible on my worst swings. I could probably squeeze a few more yards out of a different setup, but I'll take the consistency and misses that I can still play with anyday of the week.
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It's funny you say that because I always thought you were so close to having great impact but it was just off enough to frustrate you a little. Makes perfect sense now that you put it in perspective.
 
Hawk said:
LOL sorry Trout. I literally never stop thinking. My brain is a mess.
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Welcome to my world over the last 5 years. All we seem to do is study, learn and hope to be able to pass that on.
In a perfect world, we would be able to fit for both. However its not as easy as it sounds. The goal in a fitting is to minimize the misses as much as possible, as well as give you flight numbers one is capable of obtaining.

Sadly, in some areas, you have to give and take. My goal going into every fitting with someone that is not all that repeatable is to give them good ball flight on well struck shots and better ball flight on poorly struck shots.
 
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I like it Wake. I think that brings up the point of how beneficial it can be to see ball flight and test it under actual golfing conditions rather than just say "This one gives me the best numbers" and head to the cash register.
 
Good question buddy....When I was fit last year for my Callaway clubs, the fitter did ask about my common miss and he took that into consideration. Like Wake mentioned...thee was one shaft combo that on good swings I hit 10-15 yards further...but on mishits it was short and in the trees, so we ended up going with the combo that I was more consistent with overall.
 
I thinking fitting for your miss should be of utmost importance. It is really tough, however, when you have a two way miss. I've somehow managed to take the right side of the golf course out of the picture for the most part. I hook the ball horribly when I miss hit, so I look for stiffer shafts and generally flatter lie angles.
 
JB said:
Welcome to my world over the last 5 years. All we seem to do is study, learn and hope to be able to pass that on.
In a perfect world, we would be able to fit for both. However its not as easy as it sounds. The goal in a fitting is to minimize the misses as much as possible, as well as give you flight numbers one is capable of obtaining.

Sadly, in some areas, you have to give and take. My goal going into every fitting with someone that is not all that repeatable is to give them good ball flight on well struck shots and better ball flight on poorly struck shots.
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That's a pretty good way to put it and I agree that it's not always so easy. Even ego plays a big part in it. You see 15/2500 a time or two and just figure that the driver is perfect for you. It's very easy to take those misses and forget about them completely when you're on a launch monitor. Not so much on the golf course though.
 
I recently was fitted on a Launch monitor for the Taylormade R1 -

Before even getting started, he asked about the clubs I currently carry, what I felt my average drive was and my longest, where my misses were with Wedges, mid and long irons, fairway woods, rescue, and driver

After this, I took several swings at all "neutral" settings and noticed that on less-than-ideal swings, I was spraying the ball to the right on about 20-25 yards average - however, after tinkering with the settings, loft, shafts, etc. I got my misses down to just 5 yards - incredible.

Also, on "pured" shots the ball would just go and go still...I had the shaft on my R1 cut down 1/2" however I have not had it out on the course yet...when I do I will comment further on this.
 
Thanks for the thoughts guys. I like to hear that your fittings have taken it into account.
 
This is exactly what I do Hawk. Every decision I make and test with my equipment serves one purpose or another.

My swing dictates that I have a softer tip shaft. However, my miss is a weak high fade. I could not connect on the ball consistently enough and I can tell you my average driving distance and dispersion was worse with the softer tip shaft. I was hitting some moon balls and generating a ton of spin and the ball would drop 220-230 yards out in the fairway.

Went back to my DI6, which has a stiffer tip section and voila, problem went away. I think we miss our shots more often then we want to admit and we have to really embrace that.
 
Hawk said:
That's a pretty good way to put it and I agree that it's not always so easy. Even ego plays a big part in it. You see 15/2500 a time or two and just figure that the driver is perfect for you. It's very easy to take those misses and forget about them completely when you're on a launch monitor. Not so much on the golf course though.
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This happens more than you know. Let me give you an example. Two weeks ago I was asked by a neighbor to go out to the range with him and help him with drivers. I brought 7 drivers with me all with the same loft. On his first drive of the day, he hit one driver 15 yards further than any other drive he hit the entire session (close to 90 balls). With that same driver, when he missed, he was losing close to 35% of distance because his miss is high on the club face. With another driver, his mess was only 9 yards off from his total, and he hit it as good as anything else, but he would not get away from that one single shot he hit further.

Now, he comes up to me a couple of nights ago and says "Im not hitting this driver as good as I did with you". Well truthfully, he was not hitting it well with me either. He happened to have one shot that he hit tremendously well, but the rest were below average, but his mind is telling him to remember only that single shot.
 
I think you would see the most benefit from the fitting by looking for a combination that gets you closest to your optimal numbers on the misses. That's what I would do, anyway.
 
Finding that balance between well-struck shots and mishits is critical in a fitting. In the course, it's not about hitting great shots, rather hitting great misses that bring a score down.

I always let them know upfront that we'll be hitting a few balls with each club we're testing, and them eliminating the 2 worst and 2 best so we have a truer idea of what we'll see most often on the course.
 
JB said:
This happens more than you know. Let me give you an example. Two weeks ago I was asked by a neighbor to go out to the range with him and help him with drivers. I brought 7 drivers with me all with the same loft. On his first drive of the day, he hit one driver 15 yards further than any other drive he hit the entire session (close to 90 balls). With that same driver, when he missed, he was losing close to 35% of distance because his miss is high on the club face. With another driver, his mess was only 9 yards off from his total, and he hit it as good as anything else, but he would not get away from that one single shot he hit further.

Now, he comes up to me a couple of nights ago and says "Im not hitting this driver as good as I did with you". Well truthfully, he was not hitting it well with me either. He happened to have one shot that he hit tremendously well, but the rest were below average, but his mind is telling him to remember only that single shot.
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I'd admit to being guilty of that. It's very easy to do.
 
Hawk said:
Hear me out! I get a little wrapped up in my thoughts some times.

This is mainly centered on driver fitting and has been on my mind quite a bit as I finish up testing much of the 2013 line of offerings.

What I noticed is that there was a group of drivers that could give me some amazing numbers on above average to good strikes, but were pretty tough on my common misses. This wasn't so much about forgiveness in the traditional sense of losing ball speed or spraying the ball, but rather big drops in spin that were exclusive to my particular miss.

My thought process was that I'd like to try a combo that could offer me some more spin, to the point that it might not be 100% optimal on those great swings. The hope was that it would be more conducive on the miss-hits, by offering me some more cushion in the spin category.

It seems to have worked as intended. I'm seeing about 300-400rpm more back spin on both the good and bad shots. Giving a little to get a little. What do you all think? Trust me, I know how easy it is to get wrapped up in the results from those great swings. I'm starting to wonder if it's worth looking at the total picture a little more, as opposed to fitting based on the optimal result for an optimal swing? If you were fit, did you talk about or address your common misses (and how you could mitigate them) during the fitting?
Click to expand...

When you're talking about averages, that really intrigues me... I feel like you can flex down on various clubs for the 'perfect' swing, but I think it's waaay more important to fit for the average swing, and possibly even the misses.
 
JB said:
This happens more than you know. Let me give you an example. Two weeks ago I was asked by a neighbor to go out to the range with him and help him with drivers. I brought 7 drivers with me all with the same loft. On his first drive of the day, he hit one driver 15 yards further than any other drive he hit the entire session (close to 90 balls). With that same driver, when he missed, he was losing close to 35% of distance because his miss is high on the club face. With another driver, his mess was only 9 yards off from his total, and he hit it as good as anything else, but he would not get away from that one single shot he hit further.

Now, he comes up to me a couple of nights ago and says "Im not hitting this driver as good as I did with you". Well truthfully, he was not hitting it well with me either. He happened to have one shot that he hit tremendously well, but the rest were below average, but his mind is telling him to remember only that single shot.
Click to expand...

I understand that situation. He probably saw the potential in the setup and was thinking he could repeat lol. I know I've thought the same. I'm all about preaching about averages and misses now. I have to believe the average joe out there mishits the ball more then they catch flush.
 
sleuth said:
I understand that situation. He probably saw the potential in the setup and was thinking he could repeat lol. I know I've thought the same. I'm all about preaching about averages and misses now. I have to believe the average joe out there mishits the ball more then they catch flush.
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I'd agree. Especially with the driver.
 
JB said:
This happens more than you know. Let me give you an example. Two weeks ago I was asked by a neighbor to go out to the range with him and help him with drivers. I brought 7 drivers with me all with the same loft. On his first drive of the day, he hit one driver 15 yards further than any other drive he hit the entire session (close to 90 balls). With that same driver, when he missed, he was losing close to 35% of distance because his miss is high on the club face. With another driver, his mess was only 9 yards off from his total, and he hit it as good as anything else, but he would not get away from that one single shot he hit further.

Now, he comes up to me a couple of nights ago and says "Im not hitting this driver as good as I did with you". Well truthfully, he was not hitting it well with me either. He happened to have one shot that he hit tremendously well, but the rest were below average, but his mind is telling him to remember only that single shot.
Click to expand...

I have certainly been guilty of this. In fact I think it is one of the reasons I get so frustrated with golf. I go to the range before hand and hit 7 perfect drives, and 2 poor ones. I don't concern myself with the poor ones because they were surrounded by great ones. But on the course the only drives I remember are the 2 poor ones that cost me 4 strokes.
 
Hawk said:
I'd admit to being guilty of that. It's very easy to do.
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Let me tell you another story. So someone came to me for advice locally about a driver and shaft combination. We worked together for a while and came up with a great combination to mitigate his miss. He struggles with his hands and creates a hook far too often, so finding a combination that would work well with his swing was not easy, but did so with a higher spinning club head with more loft to go with a lower flight shaft, but the key here was not too low, and not too heavy.

Well he took that info and did nothing with it. Instead went to a so callled shaft expert, that told him to go in a different direction. He did so and is now hitting the ball 20 yards shorter and his miss is struggling with good contact and getting the ball up in the air. Unfortunately, many times, these "experts" struggle to convey a message, or struggle with the reality of the golf swing, so all they go by are numbers and company information. This leads to poor fittings and sadly is done WAY to often in the online world.

I believe the golf shaft is a hugely important part of the equation. However it is not the only part of the equation. I have said before and will use this quote from a famous club builder again. There are those that do not think enough about their equipment and those that think WAY too much about their equipment.
 
Hmmm I haven't really thought about it. I too have focused too much on the perfect hits and not enough on the misses. I think you are right that ego comes into play big time. I appreciate all of the thoughts/input here.
 
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