If you truly think about it, is the short game really...

[Fourputt]

A few stats to think about:

The highest Tour player in Fairways hit is only at 71%; You have to go down under 70% before you get to any "household" names.

The best GIR is 72%. Tiger, Phil, and Mahan are at 67%, and Spieth is at 66.5%.

The point is that none of them is "lights out" in the long game. They are quite good, but they still miss the entire target area in 25% of their long shots. I see guys spend hours on the range because they are "only" 55 or 60% on GIR, yet they would be in or near the top 5% of all casual players. If they put that time into short game practice, it would make a much more significant difference in their scoring.

Now that that information and tell me if the short game isn't more important than any other facet. And I don't see how you can separate putting and chipping/pitching, as those skills must support each other if you are going to score.

 

[rollin]

I understand what you are saying, however I want to throw out a statistic for the best players in the world. The player with the highest GIR % on the PGA Tour is Graham DeLaet at 72.38%, the tour average is 64.59%. That still doesn't take into account the number of putts the players will hit during the round, although the tour average for putts per round is between 27.37 and 30.76. I just don't think it's feasible to expect amateurs to do better than professionals.

This is just a very big guess, but I'm guessing that the average amateur is 50% or less for GIR and well over 30 putts per round. If amateurs can get their scrambling and putting down and consistent, their scores are going to drop dramatically. They will also score a lot more consistently.

If i could hit 50% my gir's Id drop my score a ton and shoot pb's all week. For me as high cap that is extremely important as anything else.

But also when we talk about pros hitting fir's and gir's there is an important point to this stat. There is a huge difference in just what misssing means. How much/many of the missed fir's and gir's would be considered good and even great shots for most amateurs? Their misses are not the same misses as ours. Sure they can miss by far at times but most of the time far many more of them are near misses and leave them faced with many shots that most of us would be glad to be faced with vs what our basic misses do to us. Our misses are more often and also usually more devstating then thiers.

So while these fir and gir numbers are somehting many use to make the point about how no one is all that great at gir and fir and the short game is most important is somewhat decieving. If thier percentage of the missed shots concerning fir and gir where as often and as off target as ours I'll bet anything they would be placing utmost importance on the long and mid game but even the misses are mostly much more favorable plays vs the average amateur.

 

[wadesworld]

As far as not having to worry as much about hitting the green when one posses a good short game it is a solid point. But one can then argue it the other way and say that if he places more emphasis on the aproach shots (and there are people who do feel the aproach is most important) then you can eliminate much of the times one may end up in less desirable or even very bad short situations. The idea is also - why not try to eliminate as much as possible of what just may be the hardest part of the game to master due to the untold amount of bad sutuations you can end up being in. Once again it doesnt mean in any way the short stuff is less important and certainly need to pay attention to it and get out of those situations. But its all tied together equally in many different ways depending how you view it.

There have been numerous players that have possessed strong long games, but didn't have sufficient short games to achieve major success. Hunter Mahan comes to mind.

I'm not a physics guru, but common sense tells me that it's simply impossible to hone the long game to the point a mediocre short game doesn't matter. Given the length of clubs involved and the margin of error, wayward shots are going to happen no matter how much you practice.

This is why pros play Driver-9 iron rather than 8-iron 3-wood.

 

[rollin]

purely statistically...(14 clubs) Long Clubs- Driver, 3 Wood, Hybrid, 3 Iron, maybe 4 Iron....Mid clubs 5 Iron, 6 Iron, & 7 Iron...Maybe 8 Iron....Short irons maybe 8, 9I, PW, GW, SW, LW....Just purely separating the bag by long mid and short...maybe there is one to two club variance in the middle...but that is purely opinion....

arguing to consider 9 and lower not short game is not supported by how the game is played...

My point had less to do with short or long, and more to do with take whatever club you have control with, and play your game, dont play your ego to having to hit what you cant...if you cant hit longer clubs, dont...the goal is to score better, and as you are doing so, decrease your weaknesses...Some are good long club hitters, some are more gifted at touch shots...some are great strikers of the irons, but not great with long clubs or putting...each strength can get you to a single digit capper...

Its agood point and I've thought this also as well heard this from others throught the years. It can work but the problem is as with amny amateurs is we want to learn to hit our bag. We can learn to play to stregnths and play smarter and i've done this myself and still try to do it . But simply tucking clubs away not to be used sort of takes away from it all while still learning and developing. but its a good point.

 

[JB]

There have been numerous players that have possessed strong long games, but didn't have sufficient short games to achieve major success. Hunter Mahan comes to mind.

I'm not a physics guru, but common sense tells me that it's simply impossible to hone the long game to the point a mediocre short game doesn't matter. Given the length of clubs involved and the margin of error, wayward shots are going to happen no matter how much you practice.

This is why pros play Driver-9 iron rather than 8-iron 3-wood.

This is exactly right. I said it earlier and still not sure how semantics are being played. If the argument is that every shot is independent and counts for as many strokes as the next (which I have seen so many times in this thread in other words and phrases) then its simple mathematics.

In fact its always simple mathematics. Take the total strokes one shoots, separate the amount of where the most strokes are coming from and then factor in where how many strokes can be saved legitimately in that area with perfection. Short game would (does) win every single time making it the single most important factor in score.

It does not mean the other elements are not hugely important, but when determining anything and putting a finite label on it, math would win out every time.

 

[Mulligan9111]

If i could hit 50% my gir's Id drop my score a ton and shoot pb's all week. For me as high cap that is extremely important as anything else.

But also when we talk about pros hitting fir's and gir's there is an important point to this stat. There is a huge difference in just what misssing means. How much/many of the missed fir's and gir's would be considered good and even great shots for most amateurs? Their misses are not the same misses as ours. Sure they can miss by far at times but most of the time far many more of them are near misses and leave them faced with many shots that most of us would be glad to be faced with vs what our basic misses do to us. Our misses are more often and also usually more devstating then thiers.

So while these fir and gir numbers are somehting many use to make the point about how no one is all that great at gir and fir and the short game is most important is somewhat decieving. If thier percentage of the missed shots concerning fir and gir where as often and as off target as ours I'll bet anything they would be placing utmost importance on the long and mid game but even the misses are mostly much more favorable plays vs the average amateur.

The severity of their misses has nothing to do with the importance of short game though. You absolutely have to have a good short game to score well in golf. You can have off days with your driver, irons, etc and still shoot par or better. You can't shoot par or better if your short game is off. And when I say short game I'm including putting. I know I'm bringing up the professionals again here, but how many times has Tiger, Phil, Bubba, etc. shot par or better hitting less than 50% of the fairways and maybe 50-60% of the greens? How many times have they shot par or better when they can't make a putt and their chipping/pitching is off? The difference between a great round of golf and a mediocre/poor round of golf will always involve the short game.

And yes, you can bring up examples where someone shot 85 with going out of bounds 6 times, etc. etc., but I'd argue their short game allowed them to shoot that 85 instead of a 95+.

 

[rollin]

perhaps, just perhaps fellas, some of my view is a bit bias and persuaded by me being a high capper where my blow-up holes can come from any part of the game equally as another.

My putting is actually pretty acceptable most days but other than that i can blow-up a hole because of long or mid or short games just as many times from either area of play. If i did my math as Jb suggests. For me only I'm confident i'd find the lost strokes pretty evenly from long to mid to short. Perhaps as i become better and more consistant (and i do practice all of it when i can, short too) then maybe my opinion will change.

Can drive great one day or for few holes, can aproach nicely one day can chip nicely one day but then can fall apart at any of those places and blow up from any costing me most strokes from any of them. One thing works, and something else falls apart as many you probably knoe too well. so just maybe my opinion is a bit off with this right now.

 

[JB]

perhaps, just perhaps fellas, some of my view is a bit bias and persuaded by me being a high capper where my blow-up holes can come from any part of the game equally as another.

My putting is actually pretty acceptable most days but other than that i can blow-up a hole because of long or mid or short games just as many times from either area of play. If i did my math as Jb suggests. For me only I'm confident i'd find the lost strokes pretty evenly from long to mid to short. Perhaps as i become better and more consistant (and i do practice all of it when i can, short too) then maybe my opinion will change.

This is where we disagree. You are looking at your game and analyzing the lost strokes and where they are coming from rather than the total strokes and where they are coming from. To find what is the most "important", it should always come down to the total strokes and where the most are used.

Your not wrong in thinking that you might (and others too) improve dramatically by being a better ball striker. Its indisputable.

 

[rollin]

I'm going to have to examine this better the next round i play. Not to let it distract me but going to try to pay closer attention to it. unfortunately doesnt seem to be this weekend. But see what i come up with next time i play.

actually wife and i are kidless this weekend for the first time in 17 years. sent the kids to thier cousins in florida for 6 days. No running around to sports and such for 6 whole days. But we'll be in A/c for the weekend, hit the beach and lose money we dont have. see a show, have nice dinner etc... but we're gonna relax together and have some us time for a change in many years. Actually do feel bad in a way without the kids but we'll get through it..lol.

 

[wadesworld]

perhaps, just perhaps fellas, some of my view is a bit bias and persuaded by me being a high capper where my blow-up holes can come from any part of the game equally as another.

My putting is actually pretty acceptable most days but other than that i can blow-up a hole because of long or mid or short games just as many times from either area of play. If i did my math as Jb suggests. For me only I'm confident i'd find the lost strokes pretty evenly from long to mid to short. Perhaps as i become better and more consistant (and i do practice all of it when i can, short too) then maybe my opinion will change.

Can drive great one day or for few holes, can aproach nicely one day can chip nicely one day but then can fall apart at any of those places and blow up from any costing me most strokes from any of them. One thing works, and something else falls apart as many you probably knoe too well. so just maybe my opinion is a bit off with this right now.

I'm a high-capper too (trending down), so I know some of what you speak.

I'd make the following arguments though:

1) There's a big difference between being a "pretty acceptable" putter and a great putter. I thought I was a good putter - until I started to improve my putting. I still don't think I'm great, but now I see how wrong I was. With as inconsistent as my stroke was, I had little chance of making all but the easiest putts. I thought missing by a few inches showed I was a decent putter and I was close to being a good putter. I wasn't and wasn't.

2) A big reason I'm improving is simply learning to play the game better. I haven't seen you play, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of your bad long-to-mid range shots are self-inflicted. I know mine are.

A good example occurred a few months ago. I hit a great drive on a par 5. Dead center and long. I knew I couldn't reach the green, but I decided I was just going to knock a 3-wood down to the front-left of the green. However, I executed poorly and yanked that 3-wood 40 yards left into chest-high grass. I dropped another ball and tried again with the same result. Then I finally wised up, pulled a 7-iron, hit a layup shot dead in the middle of the fairway. I knocked my 7th shot on and 2-putted for a 9.

While I'm capable of hitting a good 3-wood, it's the longer length of that club that makes the margin for error so great. If the face is just a few degrees open or closed, the ball is going 30 or 40 yards offline. Such is the danger with long clubs. Now, the better you get with those long clubs, the lower your chance of making a poor swing, but the physics of a mishit don't change. Make a mistake and you will often pay a severe price.

Now, had I simply hit a 7-iron the first time, there's a 95% chance I would have been hitting 3 into the green from a good position. And if I've got a reasonable short game, there's a 90% chance I'm walking away with no worse than bogey. If I've got a good short game, I'm going to make par more often than not.

Now, why do we, as high handicappers, get up on a hole and go driver, 5-iron rather than 5-iron, wedge, wedge? I suppose it's both ego and ever-optimistic thinking.

With smart play, you CAN mitigate the damage of poor long game shots. However, without a good short game, you both can't recover from bad long game shots, take maximum advantage of good long game shots, or take advantage of smart conservative play.

 

[Kobey]

I kept track a little bit yesterday. To simplify things I'm only going to divide it into two parts, short game and long/mid game. Short game is anything where I have to pitch, chip or putt and long/mid is anything with a full swing.

Hole 1 par4: Back fringe after 2nd shot, three putt. +1 short game
Hole 2 par4: Chipping distance after 2nd shot, chip and 3 putt. +2 short game
Hole 3 par3: Bad tee shot into water, 3rd onto green, 2 putt. +2 mid game
Hole 4 par5: Back fringe after 3, 3 putt. +1 short game
Hole 5 par4: Par
Hole 6 par3: Par
Hole 7 par4: Near green after 2, chip and 3 putt. +2 short game
Hole 8 par3: On green, 3 putt. +1 short game
Hole 9 par5: Par
Hole 10 par4: Flubbed 2nd shot, over the green on 3rd, on with 4th, 3 putt. +2 mid game, +1 short game
Hole 11 par3: Over the green, on in 2, 3 putt. +1 mid game, +1 short game
Hole 12 par4: Into creek off tee, flubbed 3rd, 4th next to green, chip and 3 putt. +3 long/mid game, +1 short game
Hole 13 par4: Par
Hole 14 par4: Sliced tee shot into other fairway, hit tree on 2nd, flubbed 3rd, punched back into own fairway on 4th, on green with 5th, 3 putt. +3 long/mid game, +1 short game
Hole 15 par4: Hooked tee shot into woods, 3rd sliced into water, 5th flubbed, 6th on green, 2 putt. +4 long/mid game
Hole 16 par5: Par
Hole 17 par4: Near green after 2nd, chip and 2 putt. +1 mid game
Hole 18 par4: second shot into woods, 4th on green, 2 putt. +2 mid game

So that's 11 extra shots for short game and 18 for long/mid game. Color me surprised. I'm sure I probably oversimplified this by not accounting for birdie putts and things like that, but right now I'm only interested in what keeps me from making par on each hole, not what would lower my total score. A good short game would help a better player recover from the occasional mistake, but it looks like for a high number player like myself the verdict is that everything is important until I get more consistency.

 

[Hawk]

I personally would count any 2 putt after a wedge shot an extra stroke. Did you do that Kobey? In my mind the expectation (whether reasonable or not) is that I want to get up and down in 2.

 

[wadesworld]

Hole 12 par4: Into creek off tee, flubbed 3rd, 4th next to green, chip and 3 putt. +3 long/mid game, +1 short game
Hole 13 par4: Par
Hole 14 par4: Sliced tee shot into other fairway, hit tree on 2nd, flubbed 3rd, punched back into own fairway on 4th, on green with 5th, 3 putt. +3 long/mid game, +1 short game
Hole 15 par4: Hooked tee shot into woods, 3rd sliced into water, 5th flubbed, 6th on green, 2 putt. +4 long/mid game

What was the club on those missed tee shots?

Hole 17 par4: Near green after 2nd, chip and 2 putt. +1 mid game

For a high-handicapper, I don't think that's +1 mid game. I think that's a well-played hole. High handicappers should not expect pars. After all, if par is your "norm," you're a near-scratch player.

 

[Tedfroop]

To help lower my scores I took lessons over the winter. My swing and ball striking are miles better than last year but scores are only down a few strokes.

At the moment it is because:

1. Too many putts - not being able to hit to a distance with irons consistently leaves me a lot of too long putts. Too long putts lead to 3 putts.

2. Short game mistakes. Chili dips, balls hit too far or not far enough, not getting the ball close enough to the pin with a wedge in my hands consistently.

Dave Pelz research showed a thing called "the golden 8 feet" where the highest percentage of putts were made - by everybody, pros and amateurs. Outside that your chances of one putting go up substantially by the foot.

I am leaving myself too many putts over 8' and my putting looks like it sucks. However, putting is not he problem, the problem is I am not getting close enough to the pin consistantly.

 

[TheWoo]

I just counted your total strokes and see 48 full swing (or penalties related to them) and 50 short game shots. Even with a couple pretty big blowups you still took more short game strokes than full swings.

While improving the driving to the point where you eliminate penalties would obviously help, eliminating 3 putts and holes with four short-game shots (four) would be huge. Then start getting those up and down and it's even greater impact.

I'll add that I really like Hank Haney's view: eliminate penalties and eliminate three-putts. No better way to quickly lower scores.

Rope hooked with my HTC One

 

[Kobey]

I personally would count any 2 putt after a wedge shot an extra stroke. Did you do that Kobey? In my mind the expectation (whether reasonable or not) is that I want to get up and down in 2.

Yeah, I didn't count not having a GIR as being a bad shot. If I was in chipping range I counted the extra shot as short game because a good chip would have put me right back on track for par.

What was the club on those missed tee shots?



For a high-handicapper, I don't think that's +1 mid game. I think that's a well-played hole. High handicappers should not expect pars. After all, if par is your "norm," you're a near-scratch player.

My driver swing has been pretty inconsistent but I'm determined to get it down so even if it costs me strokes I won't leave it out. It's all practice for me anyway, so there's no reason to give up on it.

I don't expect pars, I'm happy with a 6 on a par 4. I was just figuring out where most of my extra shots were coming from. If I can be close enough to the green to chip after my second shot, I call that good. That was a mistake on 17. I should have counted that as a short game miss.

 

[evand23mc]

I think of the short game as 100 yards and in. That is where more than half of my strokes lie and where little improvements will make the biggest difference. Adding a few yards to my drive doesn't mean as much as if I can be more accurate with my wedge or put my putts more on point. Just my thoughts.

 

[rollin]

I'm a high-capper too (trending down), so I know some of what you speak.

I'd make the following arguments though:

1) There's a big difference between being a "pretty acceptable" putter and a great putter. I thought I was a good putter - until I started to improve my putting. I still don't think I'm great, but now I see how wrong I was. With as inconsistent as my stroke was, I had little chance of making all but the easiest putts. I thought missing by a few inches showed I was a decent putter and I was close to being a good putter. I wasn't and wasn't.

2) A big reason I'm improving is simply learning to play the game better. I haven't seen you play, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of your bad long-to-mid range shots are self-inflicted. I know mine are.

A good example occurred a few months ago. I hit a great drive on a par 5. Dead center and long. I knew I couldn't reach the green, but I decided I was just going to knock a 3-wood down to the front-left of the green. However, I executed poorly and yanked that 3-wood 40 yards left into chest-high grass. I dropped another ball and tried again with the same result. Then I finally wised up, pulled a 7-iron, hit a layup shot dead in the middle of the fairway. I knocked my 7th shot on and 2-putted for a 9.

While I'm capable of hitting a good 3-wood, it's the longer length of that club that makes the margin for error so great. If the face is just a few degrees open or closed, the ball is going 30 or 40 yards offline. Such is the danger with long clubs. Now, the better you get with those long clubs, the lower your chance of making a poor swing, but the physics of a mishit don't change. Make a mistake and you will often pay a severe price.

Now, had I simply hit a 7-iron the first time, there's a 95% chance I would have been hitting 3 into the green from a good position. And if I've got a reasonable short game, there's a 90% chance I'm walking away with no worse than bogey. If I've got a good short game, I'm going to make par more often than not.

Now, why do we, as high handicappers, get up on a hole and go driver, 5-iron rather than 5-iron, wedge, wedge? I suppose it's both ego and ever-optimistic thinking.

With smart play, you CAN mitigate the damage of poor long game shots. However, without a good short game, you both can't recover from bad long game shots, take maximum advantage of good long game shots, or take advantage of smart conservative play.

I have learned while back to play smarter as you say and am past the days of hitting long and taking cahnces all the time. I never use my driver on every 4 and 5. I average 8 to 11 depending on the course and set up and what Im looking at. I often lay up to a safer spot and unless the situation is very forgiving I'm always laying up the second shot on a p5 to a comfortable 3rd shot.

My problems (and I know we're off topic with this) but they are just total collapse of being able to strike a ball. It just falls apart. Can come and go etc... Feast or famine for me with no real consistant pattern of when. But I posted anther thread about how I now found a new way and better logic to try to pull out of and minimize the effect of the self destruction and so far its worked some. See what happens next time I play but for another topic or post.

 

[Mckeon]

I'm a high-capper too (trending down), so I know some of what you speak.

I'd make the following arguments though:

1) There's a big difference between being a "pretty acceptable" putter and a great putter. I thought I was a good putter - until I started to improve my putting. I still don't think I'm great, but now I see how wrong I was. With as inconsistent as my stroke was, I had little chance of making all but the easiest putts. I thought missing by a few inches showed I was a decent putter and I was close to being a good putter. I wasn't and wasn't.

2) A big reason I'm improving is simply learning to play the game better. I haven't seen you play, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of your bad long-to-mid range shots are self-inflicted. I know mine are.

A good example occurred a few months ago. I hit a great drive on a par 5. Dead center and long. I knew I couldn't reach the green, but I decided I was just going to knock a 3-wood down to the front-left of the green. However, I executed poorly and yanked that 3-wood 40 yards left into chest-high grass. I dropped another ball and tried again with the same result. Then I finally wised up, pulled a 7-iron, hit a layup shot dead in the middle of the fairway. I knocked my 7th shot on and 2-putted for a 9.

While I'm capable of hitting a good 3-wood, it's the longer length of that club that makes the margin for error so great. If the face is just a few degrees open or closed, the ball is going 30 or 40 yards offline. Such is the danger with long clubs. Now, the better you get with those long clubs, the lower your chance of making a poor swing, but the physics of a mishit don't change. Make a mistake and you will often pay a severe price.

Now, had I simply hit a 7-iron the first time, there's a 95% chance I would have been hitting 3 into the green from a good position. And if I've got a reasonable short game, there's a 90% chance I'm walking away with no worse than bogey. If I've got a good short game, I'm going to make par more often than not.

Now, why do we, as high handicappers, get up on a hole and go driver, 5-iron rather than 5-iron, wedge, wedge? I suppose it's both ego and ever-optimistic thinking.

With smart play, you CAN mitigate the damage of poor long game shots. However, without a good short game, you both can't recover from bad long game shots, take maximum advantage of good long game shots, or take advantage of smart conservative play.

Wise words...

For those who still dont believe, Trust me, if you can get your short game to where you're making one puts when you miss the green (i.e. miss the green by 30 yards, then pitch up to 8 feet from the hole) it will shave a huge number of shots from your score... I use to be happy when I was putting for Par anywhere on the green.. The problem is most of those "putting for par" shots were from 20+ feet... Now after putting some serious work into my short game those "putting for par" shots are often 10 feet or less and very make-able.

Im not lying when I say my Handicap has dropped 8 points since January when I started really working on my short game... And for someone who has been playing for 20+ years an 8 point drop in 6 months is HUGE!

 

[rollin]

I kept track a little bit yesterday. To simplify things I'm only going to divide it into two parts, short game and long/mid game. Short game is anything where I have to pitch, chip or putt and long/mid is anything with a full swing.

Hole 1 par4: Back fringe after 2nd shot, three putt. +1 short game
Hole 2 par4: Chipping distance after 2nd shot, chip and 3 putt. +2 short game
Hole 3 par3: Bad tee shot into water, 3rd onto green, 2 putt. +2 mid game
Hole 4 par5: Back fringe after 3, 3 putt. +1 short game
Hole 5 par4: Par
Hole 6 par3: Par
Hole 7 par4: Near green after 2, chip and 3 putt. +2 short game
Hole 8 par3: On green, 3 putt. +1 short game
Hole 9 par5: Par
Hole 10 par4: Flubbed 2nd shot, over the green on 3rd, on with 4th, 3 putt. +2 mid game, +1 short game
Hole 11 par3: Over the green, on in 2, 3 putt. +1 mid game, +1 short game
Hole 12 par4: Into creek off tee, flubbed 3rd, 4th next to green, chip and 3 putt. +3 long/mid game, +1 short game
Hole 13 par4: Par
Hole 14 par4: Sliced tee shot into other fairway, hit tree on 2nd, flubbed 3rd, punched back into own fairway on 4th, on green with 5th, 3 putt. +3 long/mid game, +1 short game
Hole 15 par4: Hooked tee shot into woods, 3rd sliced into water, 5th flubbed, 6th on green, 2 putt. +4 long/mid game
Hole 16 par5: Par
Hole 17 par4: Near green after 2nd, chip and 2 putt. +1 mid game
Hole 18 par4: second shot into woods, 4th on green, 2 putt. +2 mid game

So that's 11 extra shots for short game and 18 for long/mid game. Color me surprised. I'm sure I probably oversimplified this by not accounting for birdie putts and things like that, but right now I'm only interested in what keeps me from making par on each hole, not what would lower my total score. A good short game would help a better player recover from the occasional mistake, but it looks like for a high number player like myself the verdict is that everything is important until I get more consistency.

This (right wrong or indifferent, I just don't know anymore lol) but is what I have been at times referring to. One will aruge to get rid those 3 putts will help and it sure will but what kobey is saying is that the poor long/mid stuff is really very important for him to minimize and try to improve on with just the same importance and actually used up more strokes there. This doesn't have to be the correct logic and I am rethinking this whole thing but it is what it is from the stats he posted..

 

[Mulligan9111]

This (right wrong or indifferent, I just don't know anymore lol) but is what I have been at times referring to. One will aruge to get rid those 3 putts will help and it sure will but what kobey is saying is that the poor long/mid stuff is really very important for him to minimize and try to improve on with just the same importance and actually used up more strokes there. This doesn't have to be the correct logic and I am rethinking this whole thing but it is what it is from the stats he posted..

Even with his mid/long game struggles, he still had over 50% of his strokes come from short game.

As JB mentioned, the mid/long game improvement could help him score a lot better, but that doesn't really change the mathematics of where most of the strokes come from.

 

[Fourputt]

Its agood point and I've thought this also as well heard this from others throught the years. It can work but the problem is as with amny amateurs is we want to learn to hit our bag. We can learn to play to stregnths and play smarter and i've done this myself and still try to do it . But simply tucking clubs away not to be used sort of takes away from it all while still learning and developing. but its a good point.

I used to be a high handicapper too (didn't we all???), and the single biggest "fix" in my game came when the short game started to make sense to me. I had very slowly dropped from 20 to 16 over the first year that I carried an official handicap, but it was about at 18 (early spring of 1989)when I really began working on my chipping. I was an okay putter and inconsistent off the tee and on approach shots, but my chipping and pitching was putting too much pressure on the rest of my game. I had to be perfect somewhere else to cover for my weak scrambling, and such perfection simply isn't possible. The thing is, even the best drivers and iron players have days when the swing just isn't quite there. Timing can be off by such a little bit to make a big difference.

But when you are off on the long game, a good short game can still be relied upon to minimize the damage. If you can't rely on your short game day in and day out, then that's an indication to me that you need to work on it. It might even require professional help if it's technique which is causing the inconsistency. My short game is always a strength. It doesn't go away when other parts of my game are hurting. Even after a long layoff, my short game is still there. If you have good technique, those short strokes don't rely as heavily on timing as full shots do.

I spent most of my first summer after I joined the Men's Club in 1989 (my first summer playing tournament golf) practicing my short game. Before every round I spent at least a half hour on the chipping green ( and that became part of my routine for every round for many years - when others warmed up on the range, I was on the chipping green). I played the little par 3 course at my home facility 3 or 4 times a week (at $5 a round it was a great way to practice the scoring zone in playing situations). In August the practice very abruptly showed results. I broke 80 for the first time, and between mid August and mid September, I dropped from 16 to 11, with no perceptible change in my long game. My putting and approach shots even became better because there was less pressure on them to cover for bad chipping. As far as I can remember, I've never played a single round where I hit 50% fairways or 50% GIR, yet I've shot many rounds in the 70's, my personal best is one over par 73. I put that moderate success directly on my short game play.

I've made a golfing lifestyle from scrambling. My long game works well enough to mostly keep the ball in play (as much with course management as anything), and when I do that I can usually score because I have a solid short game.

 

[JB]

I think if you asked most instructors, experts or even outsiders looking in, almost every one of them would tell you that Kobey's bigger issue with that round is short game.

And once again I will point out that if you add up the total strokes, you will see where the emphasis was in relation to importance and score.

 

[Kobey]

I have learned while back to play smarter as you say and am past the days of hitting long and taking cahnces all the time. I never use my driver on every 4 and 5. I average 8 to 11 depending on the course and set up and what Im looking at. I often lay up to a safer spot and unless the situation is very forgiving I'm always laying up the second shot on a p5 to a comfortable 3rd shot.

My problems (and I know we're off topic with this) but they are just total collapse of being able to strike a ball. It just falls apart. Can come and go etc... Feast or famine for me with no real consistant pattern of when. But I posted anther thread about how I now found a new way and better logic to try to pull out of and minimize the effect of the self destruction and so far its worked some. See what happens next time I play but for another topic or post.

That's the same place I'm in. I could play a little smarter and score a little lower, but would that make me a better golfer? Some would say yes, a lower score is the entire object of the game, no matter how you accomplish it. I say no. It would only make me a smarter golfer. I'd still have the same problems, I'd just be hiding them.

So it could be said that the short game is more important because you don't have as many choices. By that point the object is to get it as close to the hole as possible. With the long and mid games you have the opportunity to lay up with different clubs to keep you out of trouble or give you distances you're comfortable with. I've never seen anyone lay up a chip because they putt better from 20 feet than 5.

I guess that's where the numbers in my example are misleading. A lot of the extra strokes in my long and mid game were avoidable. I could have done something different to obtain a better outcome for some of them. I took my chances and paid the price. But the short game shots were do or die. There were no other options.

 

[Mckeon]

I kept track a little bit yesterday. To simplify things I'm only going to divide it into two parts, short game and long/mid game. Short game is anything where I have to pitch, chip or putt and long/mid is anything with a full swing.

Hole 1 par4: Back fringe after 2nd shot, three putt. +1 short game
Hole 2 par4: Chipping distance after 2nd shot, chip and 3 putt. +2 short game
Hole 3 par3: Bad tee shot into water, 3rd onto green, 2 putt. +2 mid game
Hole 4 par5: Back fringe after 3, 3 putt. +1 short game
Hole 5 par4: Par
Hole 6 par3: Par
Hole 7 par4: Near green after 2, chip and 3 putt. +2 short game
Hole 8 par3: On green, 3 putt. +1 short game
Hole 9 par5: Par
Hole 10 par4: Flubbed 2nd shot, over the green on 3rd, on with 4th, 3 putt. +2 mid game, +1 short game
Hole 11 par3: Over the green, on in 2, 3 putt. +1 mid game, +1 short game
Hole 12 par4: Into creek off tee, flubbed 3rd, 4th next to green, chip and 3 putt. +3 long/mid game, +1 short game
Hole 13 par4: Par
Hole 14 par4: Sliced tee shot into other fairway, hit tree on 2nd, flubbed 3rd, punched back into own fairway on 4th, on green with 5th, 3 putt. +3 long/mid game, +1 short game
Hole 15 par4: Hooked tee shot into woods, 3rd sliced into water, 5th flubbed, 6th on green, 2 putt. +4 long/mid game
Hole 16 par5: Par
Hole 17 par4: Near green after 2nd, chip and 2 putt. +1 mid game
Hole 18 par4: second shot into woods, 4th on green, 2 putt. +2 mid game

So that's 11 extra shots for short game and 18 for long/mid game. Color me surprised. I'm sure I probably oversimplified this by not accounting for birdie putts and things like that, but right now I'm only interested in what keeps me from making par on each hole, not what would lower my total score. A good short game would help a better player recover from the occasional mistake, but it looks like for a high number player like myself the verdict is that everything is important until I get more consistency.

I would say your scoring is not right... A good short game does not = 2 putts per hole... Any given round I usually chip 1 - 2 shots into the hole from the fringe and I'll make a number of 1 putts... To be honest most of my pars don't come from me hitting the GIR... I usually pitch or chip up then one putt...