One of my buddies who is a very good golfer noticed that I don't get my wrists cocked until basically the start of my downswing. He thinks I should be getting my wrists set before the transition and he believes that I am loosing out on distance by not doing this. He believes I could get more power and more lag from getting my wrist set sooner. Is he right and if so, what drills can I do to try and achieve this? Thanks for any help.
Getting Wrists Set
JPsuff
Banned
My personal theory on wrist-set, wrist-cock and lag is that the more upright your swing is, the more the wrists become a factor in power and distance. Conversely, the flatter your swing, the less significant wrist-cock and lag become.
My reasoning is this:
With a very upright swing, the more your upper-body and your "above-the-waist" muscles come into play. Because of this, the more wrist-cock and lag are needed to act as a sort of "force multiplier" as you bring the club down and into the impact zone.
With a flatter swing, you're using mostly your "below-the-waist muscles" - your big muscles - and you're also turning around your center axis more profoundly than you can with an upright swing. As such, the force is generated mainly by those large muscles and that big, wide turn and that means that your arms are more "along-for-the-ride" than anything else, so there's less need for a pronounced lag because the force is generated by the inertia of all of that movement rather than by having to "crack-the-whip" in a more upright, compact swing.
Now that's not to say that there's no lag in a flatter swing, but rather that the lag isn't as important as it would be in a steeper swing.
I arrived at this theory after having started out years ago with a very upright, very "Reverse-C" type of swing. At address, my weight was on the balls of my feet and my swing plane was very much upright. As I got older, my upper body strength diminished and my "twitch-muscle" reflex slowed. The resulting loss of power was puzzling until I realized what was happening. What I now have is a significantly flatter swing plane and my weight at address is over my arches - almost feeling flat-footed. In the past, my hands were well above my head at the top of my backswing, whereas now they're more or less at shoulder height.
I am now turning around my body more than I ever have and as a result, I find that I need less in the way of wrist movement to produce the power and distance to which I am accustomed and my arms are more passive than in the past.
So before you get all caught up in wondering where your wrists are or where someone else thinks they ought to be, try to understand your basic swing style and plane before you make any significant changes. What may work very well for your friend and his swing, may either do nothing for or even hurt yours unless the adjustment is made in a context which suits your swing.
It might be a good idea to take your swing to a qualified teaching pro and have him look you over and make some suggestions. Just taking one bit of advice, however sincere it may be, and trying to incorporate it into your swing is a little like having only one number of a multi-numbered equation and then trying to solve it. A pro can supply you with the rest of the numbers so figuring it out will be much easier.
-JP
My reasoning is this:
With a very upright swing, the more your upper-body and your "above-the-waist" muscles come into play. Because of this, the more wrist-cock and lag are needed to act as a sort of "force multiplier" as you bring the club down and into the impact zone.
With a flatter swing, you're using mostly your "below-the-waist muscles" - your big muscles - and you're also turning around your center axis more profoundly than you can with an upright swing. As such, the force is generated mainly by those large muscles and that big, wide turn and that means that your arms are more "along-for-the-ride" than anything else, so there's less need for a pronounced lag because the force is generated by the inertia of all of that movement rather than by having to "crack-the-whip" in a more upright, compact swing.
Now that's not to say that there's no lag in a flatter swing, but rather that the lag isn't as important as it would be in a steeper swing.
I arrived at this theory after having started out years ago with a very upright, very "Reverse-C" type of swing. At address, my weight was on the balls of my feet and my swing plane was very much upright. As I got older, my upper body strength diminished and my "twitch-muscle" reflex slowed. The resulting loss of power was puzzling until I realized what was happening. What I now have is a significantly flatter swing plane and my weight at address is over my arches - almost feeling flat-footed. In the past, my hands were well above my head at the top of my backswing, whereas now they're more or less at shoulder height.
I am now turning around my body more than I ever have and as a result, I find that I need less in the way of wrist movement to produce the power and distance to which I am accustomed and my arms are more passive than in the past.
So before you get all caught up in wondering where your wrists are or where someone else thinks they ought to be, try to understand your basic swing style and plane before you make any significant changes. What may work very well for your friend and his swing, may either do nothing for or even hurt yours unless the adjustment is made in a context which suits your swing.
It might be a good idea to take your swing to a qualified teaching pro and have him look you over and make some suggestions. Just taking one bit of advice, however sincere it may be, and trying to incorporate it into your swing is a little like having only one number of a multi-numbered equation and then trying to solve it. A pro can supply you with the rest of the numbers so figuring it out will be much easier.
-JP
madmike
New member
Do you have a swing vid and/or pics for this? I've been struggling to get my swingplane more upright and my hands higher, particularly with the driver. I really do not feel comfortable with my hands much above my shoulder at the top of the backswing, but it looks kinda flat on video.
Also, what's your HCP and driver swingspeed?
Thanks.
JPsuff
Banned
I don't have any vid's of my swing to offer, but I would suggest that you look at video of Zack Johnson to get an idea of what I'm describing. For a slightly more upright version as well as a great example of setting your weight back, look at Ernie El's swing.
As for me, my SS is in the 105 -110 category and I don't keep a handicap. But my "A" game is in the mid to low 70's, if that helps.
-JP
provisional
Could Care Less
My take on the wrist cock, and I am speaking only for "my swing", is when I start my take away, I bend my right (dominant/trailing) wrist back on itself, while moving to the top. In other words, I have a concave position formed by the back of my hand, and the top of side of my wrist. With my right wrist cocking this way, my left wrist also cocks correctly, just by following along. Both wrists stay cocked for as long as my swing into impact allows them to. The longer I hold the wrist cock (lag) the faster the club head has to move to catch up with my hands after impacting the ball. The faster the club head moves, the farther the ball will travel, assuming the club is properly fitted to the swing.
As for being on plane all I do is make sure my elbows, at the top of my swing and at the start of my down swing, are both level with each other. As long as they are level, I am on plane with "my swing". If they are not level, then I will not "consistently" deliver the club head to back of the ball in a "consistent" manner, which will cause me to hit inconsistent ball flights.
Like I said this is stuff I look at for my swing. I work on these two swing thoughts only on the driving range, but never on the course. Others will have different ideas which is fine by me.
As for being on plane all I do is make sure my elbows, at the top of my swing and at the start of my down swing, are both level with each other. As long as they are level, I am on plane with "my swing". If they are not level, then I will not "consistently" deliver the club head to back of the ball in a "consistent" manner, which will cause me to hit inconsistent ball flights.
Like I said this is stuff I look at for my swing. I work on these two swing thoughts only on the driving range, but never on the course. Others will have different ideas which is fine by me.
Using a split handed grip for practise swings(hands separated on the grip by 2-3")is a great exercise for feeling the wrist cock in the b/swing.You don`t really want to be thinking about when to cock or set your wrists as you swing.This usually leads to paralysis by analysis.They need to be free of tension.Use the above excercise to FEEL the movement.Just out of interest Sergio Garcia has little wrist set in the b/swing but has a lot as he enters the d/swing the lag he creates makes him not only long but a supreme ball striker.
madmike
New member
Thanks. Guess my swing isn't as strange as I thought. Nowhere near the results that Zach gets, but it kinda looks similar at the top.
PGATOUR.com - SwingPlex - Home of Slow Motion Player Swings
Phana24JG
New member
IMHO, it really does not matter when you cock or load your wrists, provided it gets done. The early wrist cock crowd claims that you can properly set them much easier, the later or "float-loading" crowd believes you tend to get a better angle of attack and are less likely to prematurely release.
If you want to see an early wrist cock watch a Nick Faldo video. For a transition wrist cock, watch Sergio Garcia. I would be satified with either swing.
- Thread starter
- #9
One thing I really noticed lately is that my left wrist is extremely cupped. From what I have read and watched videos is that the consesus is that a cupped left wrist is bad. But, there are some people who disagree with that. When I try to to make sure my wrist is flat, my swing feel extremely flat as I have more of an upright swing right now. What I feel and what actually is, is two different things tho. Thanks for all the replys too!
bigvivec
Banned
Vman and JP make some good points…I have to agree with the split hands drill as well as the idea that this needs professional attention if at all possible…this is the “meat” of the swing, and so many factors go into creating the wrist cock, which IMO at best happens as a “natural” result of the overall swing motion…the last thing that you want to focus on during a swing is cocking your wrists and like JP said, a manipulated wrist cock might not match how you swing otherwise…at some point during the overall swing, yes, the wrists should cock...Jerry Barber won a major with a wrist cock that started his takeaway…Tiger cocks very late in the backswing, Sergio cocks in the downswing, JB Holmes oddly doesn’t cock in the backswing nearly at all and doesn’t cock much more than 90* at any point in the downswing yet still generates one of the longest balls in the game...Bubba Watson and John Daly hit similar distances like JB Holmes and overswing and cock to the point that they nearly lay the club flat down their backs at the top…I personally didn’t get it straightened out to a method of attaining wrist cock and the confidence that I was getting it “right” until I took lessons…until then I tried this and that and never was confident that I was doing it correctly as there seem to be as many top positions as there are golfers…