Now Watson calls Tiger out

[NikeGolf]

And THAT, I believe, is the root of the issue.

People put Tiger on a pedestal that few Greco-Roman gods could stand upon much less a modern, mortal athlete. So when that mortal stumbles, the people who placed him on that pedestal feel embarrassed or in some way "wrong" for allowing themselves to fall in love with an image and an ideal that THEY created and now it's as if their judgment has been called into question - like vouching for someone they barely know and then having that person do something wrong and that bothers them.

People felt that the winning and the dominance of that winning meant that Tiger must be some larger than life being and to them he seemed almost god-like and thus incapable of doing anything wrong.
When he DID end up doing something wrong, he shattered the image that THEY created and believed in and I think in many ways people are more mad at themselves than at Tiger because they now realize that the pedestal on which they placed him was simply built too high and their expectation level was too great and that their "god" was just a mere human after all.


-JP

This logic and theory probably only applies to a very small few, IMO.

It's true, Tiger's image will never be the same. But, I honestly believe a lot of people who liked Tiger before as a golfer, will still like him.

I think this whole "god" analogy about Tiger is being overstated and overplayed as well. To me, and other golf fans that I know, Tiger is and was simply the best golfer in the world, and the best that we've ever seen, period. If you're the kind of person who puts athletes, actors, politicians, etc., on "pedestals" and think they do no wrong, well, then you're not living in the real world and setting yourself up for disappointment.

Remember, people are fans of Tiger for his golfing ability. When this all came out about Tiger, did his golfing ability change?

Yes, Tiger did some bad things. Okay, we all know that. But, it's still a personal "issue" between him and his family.

Until he steps onto the golf course, he's none of our business.

 

[JPsuff]

This logic and theory probably only applies to a very small few, IMO.

It's true, Tiger's image will never be the same. But, I honestly believe a lot of people who liked Tiger before as a golfer, will still like him.

I think this whole "god" analogy about Tiger is being overstated and overplayed as well. To me, and other golf fans that I know, Tiger is and was simply the best golfer in the world, and the best that we've ever seen, period. If you're the kind of person who puts athletes, actors, politicians, etc., on "pedestals" and think they do no wrong, well, then you're not living in the real world and setting yourself up for disappointment.

Remember, people are fans of Tiger for his golfing ability. When this all came out about Tiger, did his golfing ability change?

Yes, Tiger did some bad things. Okay, we all know that. But, it's still a personal "issue" between him and his family.

Until he steps onto the golf course, he's none of our business.

Agreed.

I think what I'm trying to say is that it's human nature, when we see someone who has extraordinary talent in a given thing, to see that person as being extraordinary in all things and they become almost mythical in our minds.

In Tiger's case, his astonishing talent as a golfer and a competitor put him in that category and so (by default) made him seem to be a person who must therefore be above and beyond in all other aspects of his life.

But when all of this news of his affairs broke, it shattered that mythical image and made him merely human and I think that a lot of the anger or disappointment that people feel has more to do with his not being the hero everyone thought he was rather than that he had affairs with other women.

I guess it's sort of like finding out that Santa doesn't exist.


It's hard to explain, but do you get where I'm going with this?


-JP

 

[Spank818]

I guess it's sort of like finding out that Santa doesn't exist.

Santa doesn't exist? :love-over:

Athletes always find a way to disappoint us somehow. They are human just like we are but because of the media we think of them as beyond human. I lost respect for Tiger as a person because of this, same way I lost respect for Jordan. You are talking about two of the best athletes in their respective sport yet as a person they are nothing more than an adulterer and a bitter, vindictive, gambling addict.

I would throw Tom into this as well from his earlier forays. Honestly, the way the world is nowadays there's really only three people we should all look up to... your mother, your father, God. I'll probably get burned for that last statement but hey it's what I believe.

My $.02

 

[JPsuff]

Santa doesn't exist? :love-over:

Athletes always find a way to disappoint us somehow. They are human just like we are but because of the media we think of them as beyond human. I lost respect for Tiger as a person because of this, same way I lost respect for Jordan. You are talking about two of the best athletes in their respective sport yet as a person they are nothing more than an adulterer and a bitter, vindictive, gambling addict.

I would throw Tom into this as well from his earlier forays. Honestly, the way the world is nowadays there's really only three people we should all look up to... your mother, your father, God. I'll probably get burned for that last statement but hey it's what I believe.

My $.02

I could say that I'm disappointed in him, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that I've lost respect for him. People have affairs for a variety of reasons and since I can't possibly know what went on in his personal life, there's no way I could judge him for that.

I know that the automatic response to such things is usually based upon the whole "sanctity of marriage" concept, but I've seen too many people end marriages for a boatload of reasons but the bottom line was always a fundamental unhappiness on behalf of one or both people in that marriage and that begs the question: "Why did they get married in the first place?"

I think too many people see marriage as a carved-in-stone, iron-clad contract that can never and should never be voided, but I don't think that's always the case. Perhaps there were better ways for Tiger to deal with whatever was wrong with his personal life, but that he chose the route he took isn't as important as the unhappiness it belies.

His actions may be questioned from a moral point of view, but it's the reasons behind those actions that are more to the point and only he knows what those reason are. Since I can't know what caused him to take the route he chose to take, I couldn't possibly be in any position to judge him, so likewise I can't disrespect him for something about which I have absolutely know knowledge.


-JP


P.S. I was devastated about the Santa thing too.

 

[NikeGolf]

It's hard to explain, but do you get where I'm going with this?


-JP

You bet. I understand the point and the analogies.

However, like I said, it doesn't work for everyone. Personally, I don't think Tiger, Michael Jordan, Joe Mauer, Brett Favre, etc. are any better as a person than you or I. They all happen to be very gifted athletes who excel at their sport.

That doesn't make them better people in any other way other than that.

I think some people need to realize and understand that.

 

[NikeGolf]

Santa doesn't exist? :love-over:


I would throw Tom into this as well from his earlier forays. Honestly, the way the world is nowadays there's really only three people we should all look up to... your mother, your father, God. I'll probably get burned for that last statement but hey it's what I believe.

My $.02

I didn't want to bring it up, but MJ is a good example. It wasn't a big secret that he was doing the same type of thing Tiger was doing when he was playing ball. However, people kept their mouth shut. Tiger happened to get caught and w/ today's internet, tv shows, and tabloids the story got magnified times ten.

This doesn't excuse what Tiger did, but let's be honest here. What Tiger did was nothing new by any means.

And I'll do the opposite of "burning" you for your statement about who to look up to.

I'll call it the best statement I've read on this subject.

Good work, sir.

 

[Harry Longshanks]

I think this editorial pretty much sums up my feeling perfectly:
Tom Watson is speaking out against Tiger Woods's antics - Tours News - Golf.com

Tom Watson is speaking out against Tiger Woods's antics

By Joe Posnanski, Senior Writer, Sports Illustrated
Published: February 12, 2010

Tom Watson has been troubled by Tiger Woods's act for a long time now. The cursing. The banging of clubs. The detached disdain. Watson cannot stand that stuff. He thinks it's disrespectful to the game's history. He considers it dismissive of the great players who came before. More than anything: Tom Watson believes it is impolite.

This is because, more than anything, Watson believes golf is a gentleman's game.

Watson has rarely said anything about it. Sure, he might mention his disgust in passing during an interview or to a friend. "He really shouldn't be setting that sort of example for kids," he has told me more than once. But Watson did not want to talk about it publicly.

"Tiger doesn't need my advice," he would say.

What he meant was this: Tiger didn't want his advice. And Watson knew it. Yes, Watson has won eight major championships, five of them British Opens. Yes, he has been named PGA player of the year six times. (Only Woods, a 10-time laureate, has won the honor more.) Yes, Watson is, even now, an iconic world golf figure. And he has never been shy about expressing his views about golf or anything else.* He is, most will tell you, a bit of a scold.

* When I was writing a column for The Kansas City Star, I occasionally would do a piece with nothing but what I hoped were funny lists. Watson called me up one time to tell me he did not like the list columns. At all.** "Do you want to be just a silly sportswriter," he asked, "or do you want to try to be great?" No, Tom's not shy about expressing his views.

** He wasn't the only reason, but I did stop doing the list columns.

Still, Watson came to understand that Woods was not interested in his views. Watson's various interactions with Tiger seemed to leave him pretty cold. And so he mostly kept them to himself. "I'm just an old man," he would say. "I don't know these younger players very well. If they ask, sure, I'll be happy to answer anything. But they don't need me telling them anything."

Well, look who's talking now. Twice recently, Watson has come out, once in his Kansas City hometown and again at a golf tournament in Dubai, and lambasted Woods. What's most interesting is that Watson has not really blasted Woods over his off-the-course stuff — the infidelities and the stay at the sex-addiction clinic, which made him the butt of late-night talk-show jokes. No, on those subjects Watson has basically said what everyone says: Woods should apologize and make things right with his family and make amends. Obvious stuff.

But when it comes to Woods's behavior on the golf course, well, Watson rages.

"His swearing and his club throwing, that should end," he told KSBH-TV in Kansas City.

"I think he needs to clean up his act there and show respect for the game that people before him have shown," he said in Dubai.

And so on. It is no secret and no small source of embarrassment for golf that Woods and his pit bull caddie, Steve Williams, have spent many years pillaging golf tournaments in addition to winning them. When he hits a shot that's only 90% perfect, Woods rants like he's in a David Mamet production. Stevie — as Tiger calls him — seems to enjoy nothing more than shouting at photographers who mistime their shutter clicks and at fans who do not move out of the way quickly enough. Tournament marshals across America have found themselves quietly apologizing to fans for Tiger Woods's petulance and PG-13 golfing style.

But there were not too many public complaints because.... Well, how were you going to complain about Tiger Woods? What were a few swear words and slammed clubs compared to the genius of Woods's golf game? Nobody seemed to feel big enough to lecture Tiger Woods when he was winning championships and lighting up Madison Avenue and electrifying the entire world with his brilliance. Golf had never been more popular. Tournaments lucky enough to get him were raking in money.

Now, it's different. It isn't only that Woods's image has been shattered. Yes, people pile on the weakened Tiger. But it seems to me that what Watson is really saying is that Woods has a chance to make a fresh start. And not only is Watson right, but in a weird way this might be the most optimistic view of this whole Tiger Woods saga: He can reinvent himself.

No, Woods may never again be quite the cultural phenomenon he was before he became an American punch line. But he also has a chance to stop being the sullen slasher who acts as if every putt that breaks a centimeter left of his expectations is a capital felony. Woods may never again be viewed as the invincible man on the golf course, but maybe he can be just a little bit more generous with his brilliance: a smile, a real tip of the cap, a wave. It really isn't that hard.

Tiger Woods and Tom Watson both learned golf from their beloved fathers. Earl Woods, more than anything, taught his son how to win. And Ray Watson, more than anything, taught his son to play golf with respect.

What Tom Watson is saying is this: You can do both, Tiger.

 

[NikeGolf]

That was a pretty good article. I respect the viewpoint of the author entirely.

I get a kick out of Watson calling that author up back when he wrote for the KC newspaper and sort of chastised him for writing something Tom didn't approve of.

It seems that Tom has always seemed to worry about others a bit more than himself.

 

[Smallville]

I get a kick out of Watson calling that author up back when he wrote for the KC newspaper and sort of chastised him for writing something Tom didn't approve of.

It seems that Tom has always seemed to worry about others a bit more than himself.

This is what you got out of that article? And you got on me about putting words in YOUR mouth? Pot, meet kettle. That's not exactly what he did, and obviously, the writer didn't have a problem with what Watson did say to him.

 

[NikeGolf]

This is what you got out of that article? And you got on me about putting words in YOUR mouth? That's not exactly what he did, and obviously, the writer didn't have a problem with what Watson did say to him.

Watson called me up one time to tell me he did not like the list columns. At all.** "Do you want to be just a silly sportswriter," he asked, "or do you want to try to be great?" No, Tom's not shy about expressing his views.

I would call that chastising, wouldn't you?

What was that part of putting words in mouths again?

I know the writer didn't have a problem w/ what Watson did. He was a local writer who had a local sports legend tell him what he didn't like. Who was he to argue? But if he had some cajunas, he would have continued doing what he was doing.

My point was that Watson has always seemed to worry about others so much instead of himself.

That was a good example of it.

 

[NikeGolf]

I would say this article sums it all up pretty well.

Tiger Woods owes me nothing.

Not an apology, not an explanation, not an itinerary of where he's been or what — and who — he's done. He broke no laws that I know of, although his association with that Canadian doctor accused of dealing in performance-enhancing drugs is very troubling. All Tiger did was earn a traffic citation for his errant drive off a fire hydrant down the street from his home.

He doesn't need a tearful televised confession with Oprah. For one thing, that is so not Tiger. For another, it's a no-win situation. No amount of remorse for his caravan of mistresses can make him a sympathetic figure. The court of public opinion has already ruled on this case. Oprah or Dr. Phil? Ignore the Nike motto and just don't do it, Tiger.

Those loud media voices calling for full disclosure and yet another (more detailed) apology as a necessary means of healing are looking out only for their self-interests. Another helping of juicy, sensational nuggets will simply drive more viewers toward the content these voices sell and profit from. That does not help Tiger.

Launching a charm offensive would be the obvious long-term fix upon Tiger's return. That would mean doing things Tiger has never done. Signing autographs for extended periods (like, ahem, Phil). Answering questions thoughtfully, sincerely and at length (like Jack). Informally fielding more questions with writers in scrums after press conferences (like Jack). Building personal relationships with some media members (like almost everyone else). Hanging around the locker room and getting to know some players beyond a cursory "Howzit goin'?"

Tiger's competitive edge is in his genes, though. His father raised him on a diet of you-and-me-against-the-world. His let-no-one-inside-the walls approach has served him well on the course. A tiger, this Tiger, cannot change his stripes.

The more likely alternative is a Tiger further removed from the media and public. His recent disappearance is remarkably Howard Hughes–like. His approach to the media if and when he returns may fall somewhere between Steve Carlton's wall of silence and Ben Hogan's occasional grudging but limited conversation. (Like when a young Gary Player called him with a question about the golf swing and admitted he played Dunlop equipment, not Hogan clubs. The answer he got was "Then call Mr. Dunlop," followed by a click.)

Tiger's path and his recent out-of-marriage behavior means he's already missed the turn in the road toward Beloved Elder Statesman of the Game, but he is on course for Iconoclastic Hermit. Which would be a shame.

NBC's Johnny Miller had the guts to say that Tiger's actions have damaged golf, and Miller is right. But that is because the PGA Tour, thanks to Tiger's dominance and its own desire to expand its reach and revenue far beyond its traditional niche, focused on Tiger to the exclusion of everyone and everything else. If Tiger had a sex-addiction problem, the tour has a much worse Tiger-addiction problem. At least Tiger allegedly sought help for his issues.

Tiger built his legend and a fortune in 12 years on the tour. He made millions for the tour and its denizens in that time, helping purses quadruple to giddying heights and lifting golf to the front page of sports, sometimes even the front page of the whole newspaper. Plus, his arrival may have singlehandedly rescued a sinking Golf Channel.

Any perceived debt has long since been paid in full by the fruits of his amazing success. If Tiger decides to give up golf and go diving or mountain biking or search for the meaning of life, that's his choice. He is welcome to move on if that's what he wants.

Tiger's only obligation is to his wife, his children and his conscience. Those apologies, in whatever form they may take, are their personal property. His family's bond is threatened and his right to privacy is almost certainly permanently revoked, the victim of incredible wealth, fame, sex scandals, bad judgment and a coming wave of relentless paparazzi.

That should be payment enough. His road ahead looks steep and rugged. Tiger Woods owes me nothing else.

That is courtesy of golf.com.

Like the author says, Tiger singlehandedly brought millions into golf. I would think that instead of critiquing Tiger, fellow golfers of all people should keep their mouth shut. Hell, they ought to be thanking him.

 

[JB]

When quoting articles, please provide a link to give them proper credit.

Tiger Woods's actions have damaged the game, but he doesn't owe me an apology - Tours News - Golf.com

 

[Harry Longshanks]

I would say this article sums it all up pretty well.

Actually, it doesn't sum it up at all.

This thread (that you started) is about Watson's comments to Tiger. And Watson's comments to Tiger were "when you get done cleaning up what you need to clean up on your personal side, you need to clean up your act on the course because golf is a gentleman's game and you don't act like a gentleman on the course."

Perhaps it's time to admit that your opinions are clouded by a bit of hero worship. Clouded a lot, actually.

 

[Esox]

I really wish I could find a link to the Dan Jenkins article.

Kevin

 

[Harry Longshanks]

I really wish I could find a link to the Dan Jenkins article.

Kevin

Kevin-

I've been Goggling all over the place and I can't find it. Can you recall any specific passages?

Are you certain it was an actual column by Jenkins and not some sort of email/internet writing that might have been attributed to Jenkins in order to give the article some credibility. I only ask because you would think that an article by Jenkins would be easy to find.

EDIT: It's not this one, is it?:
http://www.snopes.com/risque/adultery/tigerwoods.asp

 

[Esox]

Kevin-

I've been Goggling all over the place and I can't find it. Can you recall any specific passages?

Are you certain it was an actual column by Jenkins and not some sort of email/internet writing that might have been attributed to Jenkins in order to give the article some credibility. I only ask because you would think that an article by Jenkins would be easy to find.

EDIT: It's not this one, is it?:
http://www.snopes.com/risque/adultery/tigerwoods.asp

No, that's not it. Steve True, a local guy, read it aloud. There were references to silicon, debutantes, Arnie, Jack, and Hogan. He talks about Tiger supposedly hiding, playing video games, and eating fruit loops. It was funny, sarcastic, even kind of mean, but it was great. It had to be Jenkins, there aren't five bloggers in the world that could write something this good. While he poked some fun and scolded a bit about the affairs, he was mostly saying Tiger was a spoiled baby that needs to start acting like a man. What you would expect from an old time sportswriter like Jenkins. I can't believe I can't find it. I know I heard it read.

Kevin

 

[NikeGolf]

Actually, it doesn't sum it up at all.

This thread (that you started) is about Watson's comments to Tiger. And Watson's comments to Tiger were "when you get done cleaning up what you need to clean up on your personal side, you need to clean up your act on the course because golf is a gentleman's game and you don't act like a gentleman on the course."

Perhaps it's time to admit that your opinions are clouded by a bit of hero worship. Clouded a lot, actually.

The article might venture off of the Watson topic, but it explains the impact Woods has had on the game and how golfers wouldn't be as popular and rich as they are today without a little help from the worlds best.

But Tom can't help but throw his two cents in despite that.

Nothing clouded about that.

 

[JB]

I dont ever hear anybody complain about what Woods has brought to the game. Nor does anybody dispute it. But it does not make his actions right and fair on or off the course.

Take this analogy. Mike Tyson brought a ton of money to boxing, promoters, and others, yet he was hardly a likable person during his reign at the top.

If Woods had committed horrible crimes against animals, humans or others that ended in him being jailed, that would not take away what he did for the game. He would still have been a great golfer that changed the game (economics), at the same time being a despicable character.

 

[JPsuff]

I dont ever hear anybody complain about what Woods has brought to the game. Nor does anybody dispute it. But it does not make his actions right and fair on or off the course.

Take this analogy. Mike Tyson brought a ton of money to boxing, promoters, and others, yet he was hardly a likable person during his reign at the top.

If Woods had committed horrible crimes against animals, humans or others that ended in him being jailed, that would not take away what he did for the game. He would still have been a great golfer that changed the game (economics), at the same time being a despicable character.

That's a good point and the analogy fits. When this whole Tiger mess broke, I found myself thinking along very similar lines only my "example" was Ty Cobb.

Whenever the history of baseball is discussed or when baseball records are quoted, Ty Cobb's name almost always enters the conversation. What he did for the sport of baseball was, in his day, similar to what Tiger has done for golf. Yet despite the credit given Cobb for his contributions to baseball, it is almost universally agreed that he was the biggest SOB to ever walk the planet and he was roundly disliked by virtually everyone who met him - including his own teammates. All of this proves that who a person is does not necessarily have anything to do with what that person does or what their abilities can do for something else, such as in this case, a sport.

Like many people, I think that Tiger has some "fixing" to do and I'm sure he's well aware of that, but I think it's time to back off and let things shake out.

Last December, ESPN's Rick Reilly wrote the following as an answer to a comment from one of his readers and I think it sums up the way I and many others feel about Tiger.

Mr. Reilly wrote:

"...this man has been hung by his thumbs all over the world for almost a month now. He has gone from one of the most respected and honored people in the world to a laughingstock. Yes, he cheated and, allegedly, in epic proportions, but just a little reminder: He didn't rape anybody. He didn't kill anybody. He didn't rob, beat or shoot anybody. He committed acts of infidelity with willing women. Nobody's been this publicly pilloried since Hester Prynne."​

I think that's a fair statement and I believe that it adds the perspective that many people seem to have lost in their assessment of Tiger. Add to that the fact that 3 out of 5 marriages end in divorce and that makes Tiger more "like us" than perhaps many people would care to admit.


Let's see what happens from here.


-JP

 

[NikeGolf]

I dont ever hear anybody complain about what Woods has brought to the game. Nor does anybody dispute it. But it does not make his actions right and fair on or off the course.

Take this analogy. Mike Tyson brought a ton of money to boxing, promoters, and others, yet he was hardly a likable person during his reign at the top.

If Woods had committed horrible crimes against animals, humans or others that ended in him being jailed, that would not take away what he did for the game. He would still have been a great golfer that changed the game (economics), at the same time being a despicable character.

This would be a totally different story if Tiger broke laws. Fortunately, we don't have to worry or even talk about that because it's simply not the case.

I understand the Tyson analogy, but I'm not sure you want to use that in this instance. Do you want to lump Tyson and Tiger together as two guys who had similar effects on their sport but yet were bad "figures"?

What has Tiger ever done to anyone? He keeps his mouth shut. He doesn't or hasn't beat his wife. There is nothing criminal to talk about. The only thing guys like Watson can talk about is throwing clubs and swearing once in a while.

If I was a golfer, I would realize what Tiger has done for my sport and leave him be.

As fans, I think we should do the same.

 

[JB]

This would be a totally different story if Tiger broke laws. Fortunately, we don't have to worry or even talk about that because it's simply not the case.

I understand the Tyson analogy, but I'm not sure you want to use that in this instance. Do you want to lump Tyson and Tiger together as two guys who had similar effects on their sport but yet were bad "figures"?

What has Tiger ever done to anyone? He keeps his mouth shut. He doesn't or hasn't beat his wife. There is nothing criminal to talk about. The only thing guys like Watson can talk about is throwing clubs and swearing once in a while.

If I was a golfer, I would realize what Tiger has done for my sport and leave him be.

As fans, I think we should do the same.

No he has not broken the law, and nobody is disputing what he has done for the game. But you have to have pretty large blinders on, which it seems you might, to not realize that his attitude towards fans and others is poor at best.

I have backed him for years in not signing autographs, because people immediately turn around and sell them. I have supported his charities and applaud what he has done for the game and those same charities. But take him off the pedestal already. He made MAJOR mistakes. Not with his personal problems, because frankly I dont care. But his actions on the course are terrible.

I get mad at fans when they scream bloody murder at him and not at others for doing the same thing. See Christie Kerr, Morgan Pressell, and others. And I get just as mad at the media for constantly dwelling on small flaws of the best in every sport simply because they want to cover them.

But you are sounding more like a super fan rather than a logical figure in this case because while once again I will point out that NOBODY is disputing his contributions to the sport, to ignore his issues shoes blind allegiance. He has been great for the sport, but the sport was not made by Mr. Woods. He was part of the rise of popularity. So was the dot.com boom by the way because people could finally learn more, as was the tech boom, and so much more. The sport was around before El Tigre, and the sport will be around when he leaves.

 

[JPsuff]

The thing I've always wondered is that if Tiger were accused of embezzlement or money laundering or even alcohol or drug abuse, would anyone care as much? Would everyone be demanding to know the specific details of where, when and how often?

I think not because there's nothing lascivious about hiding money or being drunk and I believe it's the prurient nature of what he did that has everyone demanding a detailed accounting of his every move.


I won't attempt to explain why that is, I just find it interesting, is all.


-JP

 

[NikeGolf]

No he has not broken the law, and nobody is disputing what he has done for the game. But you have to have pretty large blinders on, which it seems you might, to not realize that his attitude towards fans and others is poor at best.

I have backed him for years in not signing autographs, because people immediately turn around and sell them. I have supported his charities and applaud what he has done for the game and those same charities. But take him off the pedestal already. He made MAJOR mistakes. Not with his personal problems, because frankly I dont care. But his actions on the course are terrible.

I get mad at fans when they scream bloody murder at him and not at others for doing the same thing. See Christie Kerr, Morgan Pressell, and others. And I get just as mad at the media for constantly dwelling on small flaws of the best in every sport simply because they want to cover them.

But you are sounding more like a super fan rather than a logical figure in this case because while once again I will point out that NOBODY is disputing his contributions to the sport, to ignore his issues shoes blind allegiance. He has been great for the sport, but the sport was not made by Mr. Woods. He was part of the rise of popularity. So was the dot.com boom by the way because people could finally learn more, as was the tech boom, and so much more. The sport was around before El Tigre, and the sport will be around when he leaves.

You're almost making my point for me, while at the same time, disagreeing with me. That's hard to do.

You talk of other golfers doing the same type of stuff that Tiger does on the course, but no one really talks about those other golfers. You have correctly stated why a person shouldn't bad mouth him for not signing autographs. You spoke of the charities that Tiger is involved in, which again, is great stuff.

But, you say his actions on the course are terrible. Hummmm....... I would debate, "terrible" and then ask if that "terrible" behavior needs to be magnified and talked about by not only fans, but by golfers such as Watson?

You also incinuated that I'm "ignoring his issues". What "issues" are these? Because, you even agreed that the off the course stuff is off limits, as it should be. So, these "issues" is the ONE issue of the on course behavior, yes?

I simply have the mind set that it's not that big of deal. Because he swears and throws a club once in a while (as some others do as well), we're going to label him as having "terrible" behavior?

That's not hero worship or putting him on any pedestial.

Plus, let's get real here. He's the best golfer in the world, and best most of us have ever seen. I think a little lee-way is appropriate in this case.

 

[Harry Longshanks]

Plus, let's get real here. He's the best golfer in the world, and best most of us have ever seen. I think a little lee-way is appropriate in this case.

You aren't just asking for leeway, you are also condemning others (Watson) for making accurate statements about Woods. You defend, to a fault, Woods against all naysayers for his actions - saying he should be granted leeway and special privileges. Yet, you are the naysayer when others (Watson) simply state an opinion.

A bit hypocritical don't you think?

EDIT: And if you don't think you are putting Woods on a pedestal, or exhibiting hero worship, then you need to take a step back and re-read all your posts on this subject.

 

[NikeGolf]

You aren't just asking for leeway, you are also condemning others (Watson) for making accurate statements about Woods. You defend, to a fault, Woods against all naysayers for his actions - saying he should be granted leeway and special privileges. Yet, you are the naysayer when others (Watson) simply state an opinion.

A bit hypocritical don't you think?

EDIT: And if you don't think you are putting Woods on a pedestal, or exhibiting hero worship, then you need to take a step back and re-read all your posts on this subject.

I'm calling out a golfer who needs to worry about himself. Also, I'm calling out a golfer who himself has shown to be hypocritical in what he's done in the past and by what he says now.

Why isn't Tom talking about other golfers' on the course behavior? If you're going to talk about Tiger, why not address others?

My main point is for guys like Tom to shut up. Don't worry about Tiger or any other golfer, for that matter.

That's not a hero worship stance. That's not defending Woods to a fault and that's not being hypocritical.