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Now Watson calls Tiger out

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JP,
You have missed just about every interview, every magazine cover, and more than half of his commercials then. He has spent the last few years talking about integrity, family life, and more.

His on course may be what you describe and that is true, but off the course it is anything but.
 
JB said:
If you believe that Watson is the only one that thinks so, I think you need to do a little more reading or research. Hundreds have called him out on it.
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Back the freight train up.

Hundreds have called him out on it?

/to the research cave I go
 
There have been atleast 100 articles the last few years calling out his behavior.
 
JB said:
JP,
You have missed just about every interview, every magazine cover, and more than half of his commercials then. He has spent the last few years talking about integrity, family life, and more.

His on course may be what you describe and that is true, but off the course it is anything but.
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You're probably right because all I'm basing this on is the way he comes across on most TV ads. I really haven't read many interviews with him and I don't know how he comes across as far as charities and other off-course things he's involved with.

But as far as TV goes, even his most recent deodorant commercial comes across as edgy.

But it's interesting that you say he highlights integrity and general "good behavior" because a psychologist might describe that as a sort of alter-ego; a form of behavior that he wishes he could actually live rather than just portray.

No matter what anyone thinks of him there's one thing that's undeniable and that is that Tiger is a very complicated person (which is yet another reason why I find him interesting).


-JP
 
No question about it. And a lot cannot be disputed with his on course image. But I go back to the original argument. If there is one person that has the ability to call him out its a HOF'er. No different than Bradshaw calling out Favre, Magic calling out Kobe and so on.
 
JB said:
There have been atleast 100 articles the last few years calling out his behavior.
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So, now its hundreds of articles.

Ok, because it sure sounded like you meant hundreds of golfers called him out.
 
I never said hundreds of golfers. There are barely hundreds of pro golfers out there. I looked at my post again, it does not say golfers anywhere in it.
 
JB said:
If you believe that Watson is the only one that thinks so, I think you need to do a little more reading or research. Hundreds have called him out on it.
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I hate to sound picky to make a point but this sure looks like you meant golfers.

You speak of Watson, who is a golfer, then you say I need to do a little reading/research because hundreds have called him out on it.

Looks like you meant golfers to me.

But, not that big of deal.
 
Well once again you are mistaken. This whole thread is you angrily saying that Watson has no right to call him out. Which is flat out false. He has every right. My point and was said in that post that not only has Watson called him out, but hundreds more have said the same thing as Watson.
 
JB said:
Well once again you are mistaken. This whole thread is you angrily saying that Watson has no right to call him out. Which is flat out false. He has every right. My point and was said in that post that not only has Watson called him out, but hundreds more have said the same thing as Watson.
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I never said he didn't have a right. My point is is that he's wrong to do so.

And who are the "hundreds"? Just to clarify. Sports writers? Golfers?

Haha, once again I'm mistaken? I didn't know I've been wrong.
 
I officially give up. Your fandom and hero worship is blinded. To think a HOF should not say anything is to say nobody should say anything. Continue with your pedestal.
 
JB said:
I officially give up. Your fandom and hero worship is blinded. To think a HOF should not say anything is to say nobody should say anything. Continue with your pedestal.
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I think a fellow golfer shouldn't say anything. It's his right to do, but that doesn't make it right.

Fans and sports writers can and should say whatever they want. That's what they do.
 
NikeGolf said:
I think a fellow golfer shouldn't say anything. It's his right to do, but that doesn't make it right.

Fans and sports writers can and should say whatever they want. That's what they do.
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Should Jasper not have said anything either?
or has he more of a right?
 
NikeGolf said:
I never said he didn't have a right. My point is is that he's wrong to do so.

And who are the "hundreds"? Just to clarify. Sports writers? Golfers?

Haha, once again I'm mistaken? I didn't know I've been wrong.
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See, this is what I don't understand...

How can it be that someone has a right to say something but that's it's wrong for him to exercise that right?

Seems kinda paradoxical, doesn't it?

Anyone in the world can disagree with all or part of what Watson said, but he STILL has the right to say it, no?


Help me out here, dude!


-JP
 
JPsuff said:
See, this is what I don't understand...

How can it be that someone has a right to say something but that's it's wrong for him to exercise that right?

Seems kinda paradoxical, doesn't it?

Anyone in the world can disagree with all or part of what Watson said, but he STILL has the right to say it, no?


Help me out here, dude!


-JP
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This is America. A person has the right to say basically whatever they want about whatever subject they want to. Absolutely I agree that Tom has the right to say whatever he wants. Whether about Tiger, golf, Chevy vehicles, furniture, etc.

My argument is that Tom was wrong to talk publicly about Tiger in the way that he did.

I flat out disagree w/ his view that Tiger should talk publicly about his ordeal. And I don't feel Tom, or any other golfer, should talk about another golfer's behavior on the course. Whether it be Tiger, or anyone else. Let the people who should worry about that stuff deal with it, and let it be. You have the right to do it, but is it the "right" thing to do in that instance? I say no.

I know some want to make me sound like I think Tiger should be able to do whatever he wants. That Tom CAN'T talk about Tiger. That Tiger should have his own rules, etc etc.

But, thats hogwash. Tom CAN talk about Tiger or whoever he wants. I DISAGREE that he should, though. Like I've said earlier, I would feel the same way if Tom spoke out against some other golfer.

If Tom is so worried about Tiger's on course behavior, why not call out others for the same thing if he's so worried about it?
 
I think Nike is simply saying that what you can do is not always what you should do.

That said, in this instance I disagree that Watson should not have spoken to the issue. I think his comments were measured, and were delivered in a reasonable and appropriate way. I also believe there are few players who speak with the gravitas of Watson, and therefore that his comments are welcome. Finally, I think someone from the game does need to speak publicly about Tiger's abhorent behavior ... silence is aquiescence. And who better than an intelligent, experienced, respected figure like Watson?

Edit: Sorry, Nike responded before I did.
 
That's nuff said

That's nuff said

I think Mr. Eldrick Woods should take his nice little boat and take a long slow cruise to China... Looks like the tour is doing just fine right now without him... NOBODY is da man..... The tour is da man..... I am enjoying it just like it is right now. No Tigger withdrawals. Just good PGA golf without all the drama.. Now if you shut down the Senior Tour or the LPGA tour it would cause a problem, because of all the many great players. No one player is worthy enough to stop GOLF in it's tracks.... Won't happen. The End.......
 
This certainly is not a conversation I want anything to do with, for several reasons. But, it seems to me that history it's self has some what set these HOF into the role of steering the younger players to make the right decisions. Arnie, Jack, Crenshaw, Watson and the rest have all played pivotal roles in the progression of the PGA and the younger up and coming players. My guess, yes I said guess, is that Watson felt somewhat obligated as a playing "HOF'er", may have even been nominated to a point.

Don't forget that Tiger is not exactly making himself available to anyone. His best friends can't even contact him it's said.
 
JPsuff said:
I have never seen Tiger portrayed as some kind of "John Boy Walton" or some other such warm and fuzzy "swell guy". Quite the contrary.
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The Cliffs

The video from aug 2007 has Tiger describing families having fun, the video has pictures of couples holding hands, etc. Very much an "ahh shucks" type of image he tried to employ.

Not to mention this pic which he released.
tiger_and_family_1_136283s.jpg




JB said:
JP,
You have missed just about every interview, every magazine cover, and more than half of his commercials then. He has spent the last few years talking about integrity, family life, and more.
Click to expand...

Exactly, it was everywhere & in your face.



cocopoppyhead said:
Should Jasper not have said anything either?
or has he more of a right?
Click to expand...


Funny how jasper has been left out & yet he is the one who ripped Tiger a new one.
 
NikeGolf said:
And I don't feel Tom, or any other golfer, should talk about another golfer's behavior on the course. Whether it be Tiger, or anyone else. Let the people who should worry about that stuff deal with it, and let it be.
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There are certainly times where such a thing is appropriate. Tiger's behavior is rude and and is, or at the least, borders on being disrespectful to his playing partners. Not to mention offensive to many in the viewing public. Comments on it are well founded, whomever makes them.

thedue said:
Don't forget that Tiger is not exactly making himself available to anyone. His best friends can't even contact him it's said.
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I fear Tiger has the social maturity of a teenage boy. Dan Jenkins claims he's been in hiding playing video games and eating Fruit Loops. It might behoove Tiger to take some interest in his elders' comments, but like most petulant children, he most likely feels they have nothing to tell him.

Kevin
 
Esox said:
...I fear Tiger has the social maturity of a teenage boy. Dan Jenkins claims he's been in hiding playing video games and eating Fruit Loops. It might behoove Tiger to take some interest in his elders' comments, but like most petulant children, he most likely feels they have nothing to tell him.

Kevin
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You know, I think that basically sums up the way I feel about Tiger right now. I think what he really needs to do is to admit that he's 33 years old and act accordingly.

I would never want to see him stifle his competitive nature nor would I even want to make him stop getting mad at himself when he messes up a shot. But I would like to see him doing so in a way that doesn't make him seem so much like a ten-year-old throwing a tantrum.

I definitely understand where he's coming from and I used to piss and moan and carry on just like he does -- when I was in my teens and early twenties.


Nowadays, I still get mad at bad shots and I occasionally let loose with some colorful language, but it's only once in a while and it's over in ten seconds and then I'm back to chatting with others or joking around and that's it.

So if I -- a lowly serf -- can figure out how to rein in my anger and not ruin everyone's day because I'm having a bad one, then I'm sure that Tiger, who has access to the finest psychological and behavioral minds in the world, ought to be able to do the same.

I love watching him play and I love his intensity, but he does need to do some growing up.


-JP
 
JB said:
I officially give up. Your fandom and hero worship is blinded. To think a HOF should not say anything is to say nobody should say anything. Continue with your pedestal.
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I think that is a good idea. Nothing anyone will say will say that will change Nikes blinded opinion.

I personally haven't been able to take anything he has said seriously since he dropped the race card in the early going. I have just been reading to see what ridiculous thing he has to say since.

Of course that is just my opinion. :wink:
 
Islander said:
I think that is a good idea. Nothing anyone will say will say that will change Nikes blinded opinion.

I personally haven't been able to take anything he has said seriously since he dropped the race card in the early going. I have just been reading to see what ridiculous thing he has to say since.

Of course that is just my opinion. :wink:
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blinded opinion, race card, rediculous........

I was kidding about the race card. If you knew me personally, you know I'm not the kind of guy to seriously mean something like that.

Instead of coming out of the shadows to talk about me in a way that resembles talking behind my back, try talking directly to me and about whatever issue you have w/ what I say.

High school girls do that kind of thing.
 
I'm definitely a Tiger fan , but agree that Watson has every right to give his constructive criticism.

The only thing that bothers me is the timing of the announcements. If this has been a concern of his for a long time, then he should have been brave enough to say his piece before in public. To me, it almost feels like he is kicking the man when he is already down.
 
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