Study shows Toyota's, "SUA" problem mostly due to driver error

[Badger_Golfer]

direct quote from the link you provided:



seems to me that there were some other factors besides someone slamming on the gas pedal.

the fact is, there were some other malfunctions that weren't all human involved....proven by the link YOU provided. i have nothing against toyota at all, have had 3 tacomas and got rid of my last one a little over a year ago. i never had any problems with mine but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a problem. that's all.

Sticking pedals and floormat entrapment are all problems that have been fixed. The remaining issue was SUA in that the vehicle sped out of control. The, "experts" in our government keep point to some kind of electronic gremlin; yet the black box recorders show that the throttle was wide-open yet the brakes werent depressed at all. That point to driver error, not some electronic gremlin.

 

[lefty]

these "black box" recorders only keep data from the last few seconds before an airbag deploys (if I recall correctly)

so if there's no crash, there's no data to review
out of the large amount of alleged incidents, very few have "black box" data to review

 

[JRod]

Well the fact of the matter remains there is no Toyota currently made (excluding perhaps the Lexus I and LFS) that can overpower the brakes. If you hit the brakes the car will stop, perhaps alot slower than if the motor wasn't working against it, but it will stop none the less. There are too many things in these stories that just don't add up, whether youre a Toyota advocate or not.

 

[lefty]

Well the fact of the matter remains there is no Toyota currently made (excluding perhaps the Lexus I and LFS) that can overpower the brakes. If you hit the brakes the car will stop, perhaps alot slower than if the motor wasn't working against it, but it will stop none the less. There are too many things in these stories that just don't add up, whether youre a Toyota advocate or not.

any car with overpower the engine with their brakes, check those 3 links I put up on page one of this thread, there's all kinds of family sedans and even high HP stuff like a shelby mustang which all stop even with the throttle floored


the only question in my mind is if there's something related to the regenerative braking on the hybrids that prevent them from working in the normal fashion in emergency situations

 

[Badger_Golfer]

Its also worth point out that since this SUA problem was brought to the forefront and had begun to be investigated by the government, claims/complaints have all but dropped to zero. I dont like to call people liars who were simply trying to get a big cash settlement from Toyota, but its definetly starting to look that way...
Id agree with you guys that the engine isnt going to be able to overpower the brakes. Im sure in our younger days (and maybe in the not so distant past) we held the brake while stepping on the gas pedal in order to do a, "power braker" burnout. Even a 300+ hp musclecar hasnt got the power to overcome the brakes, so I highly doubt some little Toyota has the power.

 

[bonknhead]

Its also worth point out that since this SUA problem was brought to the forefront and had begun to be investigated by the government, claims/complaints have all but dropped to zero. I dont like to call people liars who were simply trying to get a big cash settlement from Toyota, but its definetly starting to look that way...
Id agree with you guys that the engine isnt going to be able to overpower the brakes. Im sure in our younger days (and maybe in the not so distant past) we held the brake while stepping on the gas pedal in order to do a, "power braker" burnout. Even a 300+ hp musclecar hasnt got the power to overcome the brakes, so I highly doubt some little Toyota has the power.

300hp = musclecar? Maybe back 10-20 years ago...

Little Toyota? Have you seen any Toyota models lately? They're all larger than ever; I don't think any of the Toyota models involved were small (well, the Prius, but even that one isn't really "small"). There are quite a few Toyota/Lexus models with close to 300hp or more (Camrys, Avalons, and just about every Lexus model). No one calls those musclecars.

 

[Badger_Golfer]

300hp = musclecar? Maybe back 10-20 years ago...

Not saying all 300 hp cars are musclecars.

Little Toyota? Have you seen any Toyota models lately? They're all larger than ever; I don't think any of the Toyota models involved were small (well, the Prius, but even that one isn't really "small"). There are quite a few Toyota/Lexus models with close to 300hp or more (Camrys, Avalons, and just about every Lexus model). No one calls those musclecars.

Ummmm, lately as in yesterday. I deal with or work on Toyotas on a daily basis. Not calling any Toyota/Lexus/Scion a musclecar no matter how much power they have. When I said ,"little", it was kind of a tongue in cheek kind of thing.

 

[JRod]

Musclecar is a time lost term but I would damn sure consider an LFA or I series a performance car.

 

[lefty]

I'm not sure the LFA can even count as a car, there's so few available to the public (500 for the world)

the Lexus IS is a pig, I'm not sure you can call it a "performance car" when the only way to get a manual transmission is to buy the smallest motor possible, really the IS is just a poor imitation of other performance sedans

 

[Goins]

Its also worth point out that since this SUA problem was brought to the forefront and had begun to be investigated by the government, claims/complaints have all but dropped to zero. I dont like to call people liars who were simply trying to get a big cash settlement from Toyota, but its definetly starting to look that way...
Id agree with you guys that the engine isnt going to be able to overpower the brakes. Im sure in our younger days (and maybe in the not so distant past) we held the brake while stepping on the gas pedal in order to do a, "power braker" burnout. Even a 300+ hp musclecar hasnt got the power to overcome the brakes, so I highly doubt some little Toyota has the power.

You weren't power braking while the car was already doing 60 miles an hour either.

 

[Badger_Golfer]

I'm not sure the LFA can even count as a car, there's so few available to the public (500 for the world)

the Lexus IS is a pig, I'm not sure you can call it a "performance car" when the only way to get a manual transmission is to buy the smallest motor possible, really the IS is just a poor imitation of other performance sedans

Thats why they make the IS-F10 (416 hp). :twist:

 

[Badger_Golfer]

You weren't power braking while the car was already doing 60 miles an hour either.

Apparently neither were the people with all these, "runaway" Toyotas either...

 

[JB]

Hmmmmm!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100729/ts_nm/us_toyota_recall


Japan's Toyota Motor Corp said on Thursday it would recall 412,000 high-end passenger cars in the United States to fix steering problems.

Toyota, which has conducted a string of recalls this year, will recall 373,000 of its 2000-2004 model year Avalon sedans because the steering lock bar in these vehicles could break under certain conditions, it said in a statement.

It will also recall 39,000 of its 2003-2007 model year LX470 sports utility vehicles to eliminate the risk of steering shaft disengagement, the world's biggest automaker said.

Toyota has received reports of three accidents involving the Avalon models subject to the recall though there have been no injuries reported, a Toyota spokesman said.

It is not clear if the three accidents are related to the possible defect Toyota is now trying to fix, he said.

There have been no reports of accidents involving the LX470 models subject to the recall, Toyota said.

Before the recall announcement, Toyota shares closed down 0.3 percent at 3,070 yen, in line with a fall in the Nikkei stock average.

 

[JRod]

Steering lock bar? I've never even heard of such a thing.

 

[lefty]

I can only imagine the steering lock bar would be the part that locks the steering in place when the ignition is in the off position,

just a guess

 

[Badger_Golfer]

Those are both pretty crazy problems.
Avalon:

Because of improper casting of the steering lock bar, which is a component of the steering interlock system, there is a possibility that a minute crack may develop on the surface. Such a crack may expand over a long period of repeated lock and unlock operations, and eventually the lock bar could break. If this occurs, the interlock system may become difficult to unlock when stationary.

If the vehicle while being driven is steered to the right with sufficient lateral acceleration, a broken and loose lock bar may move toward the steering shaft. If the engagement hole in the shaft happens to line up at the specific time the broken lock bar has moved, this could cause the steering wheel lock bar to engage, locking the steering wheel, and increasing the risk of a crash.

LX570:
http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/lexus/lexus-announces-intent-to-voluntarily-165037.aspx

Lexus has determined that the construction of the steering shaft on involved LX 470s is such that the snap ring on the shaft may disengage when the vehicle experiences an unusually severe impact to the front wheels, such as striking a deep pothole. If the snap ring becomes disengaged and the steering wheel is then repeatedly turned to the full locked position, the steering shaft may disengage over time.

They are a couple of pretty nit-picky recalls IMO, but at least Toyota is being proactive about their problems.

 

[Goins]

Yeah, no biggie if your wheel locks while doing 60 down the freeway.

 

[JB]

Yeah, no biggie if your wheel locks while doing 60 down the freeway.

Of course not. Toyotas never have issues. The last bunch were BS and this is just them being forward thinking and proactive...HAHA

 

[weezy109]

Of course not. Toyotas never have issues. The last bunch were BS and this is just them being forward thinking and proactive...HAHA

If you guys don't think that same type of thing can happen to your car, no matter the brand, then you are out of your mind. A series of events like the ones mentioned above could happen to every single part on your car. I really don't see how they can "fix" that. Its in the nature of something mechanical to screw up. There are just too many moving parts to be able to determine what circumstances are needed for a part to freeze or jam etc. If i told you there was a part on your car that could easily explode possibly sending you into a massive fiery crash, you would be appalled that such a part made it on your car. Until i said its your tires. Its a matter of perspective I guess.

 

[lefty]

If you guys don't think that same type of thing can happen to your car, no matter the brand, then you are out of your mind. A series of events like the ones mentioned above could happen to every single part on your car. I really don't see how they can "fix" that. Its in the nature of something mechanical to screw up. There are just too many moving parts to be able to determine what circumstances are needed for a part to freeze or jam etc. If i told you there was a part on your car that could easily explode possibly sending you into a massive fiery crash, you would be appalled that such a part made it on your car. Until i said its your tires. Its a matter of perspective I guess.

a good engineering company should design parts so that if they do fail, they fail in a safe manner

stuff breaks, that's going to happen, but what happens after it breaks is a result of how the systems were designed

 

[Goins]

If you guys don't think that same type of thing can happen to your car, no matter the brand, then you are out of your mind. A series of events like the ones mentioned above could happen to every single part on your car. I really don't see how they can "fix" that. Its in the nature of something mechanical to screw up. There are just too many moving parts to be able to determine what circumstances are needed for a part to freeze or jam etc. If i told you there was a part on your car that could easily explode possibly sending you into a massive fiery crash, you would be appalled that such a part made it on your car. Until i said its your tires. Its a matter of perspective I guess.

I know they can happen to my car. I'm just tired of the argument that it can't happen to a Toyota. To say all of these problems were made up and the cause of the driver is the biggest crock I have read in quite a while. Some money went into the right pockets to make the problem go away.

 

[Badger_Golfer]

I know they can happen to my car. I'm just tired of the argument that it can't happen to a Toyota. To say all of these problems were made up and the cause of the driver is the biggest crock I have read in quite a while. Some money went into the right pockets to make the problem go away.

Yeah, youre right, the governement lied to protect Toyota. I mean, its not as if they invested taxpayer money to bail out GM and Chrysler (2 of Toyotas fiercest rivals).
When the computer on the car itself says that the throttle was at 100% and the brake was at 0%, the only conclusion you can come to is driver error.
BTW, the investigation is ongoing and NASA is involved with it, so if there is indeed some electrical glitch it will be found eventually.
As someone who drives an '07 Camry every day, I can tell you that the gas and brake pedals are really close together (much closer than any other vehicle Ive ever owned), so it wouldnt be all that difficult to intend to step on the brake and press on the gas instead.

 

[lefty]

drivers (especially the elderly) have been mistaking the gas pedal for the brake pedal quite often, for quite some time

I'm sure you all have stories in your local papers about a car that plows into a building because the driver got confused in a parking lot. I think that story seems to come around 3-4 times a year at least (and it happens in all kinds of cars)

 

[JB]

I know they can happen to my car. I'm just tired of the argument that it can't happen to a Toyota. To say all of these problems were made up and the cause of the driver is the biggest crock I have read in quite a while. Some money went into the right pockets to make the problem go away.

Yeah, youre right, the governement lied to protect Toyota. I mean, its not as if they invested taxpayer money to bail out GM and Chrysler (2 of Toyotas fiercest rivals).
When the computer on the car itself says that the throttle was at 100% and the brake was at 0%, the only conclusion you can come to is driver error.
BTW, the investigation is ongoing and NASA is involved with it, so if there is indeed some electrical glitch it will be found eventually.
As someone who drives an '07 Camry every day, I can tell you that the gas and brake pedals are really close together (much closer than any other vehicle Ive ever owned), so it wouldnt be all that difficult to intend to step on the brake and press on the gas instead.

I said it before and I will say it again, not all of the problems are the peoples. We get it, you love Toyota and to you they can do no harm. Like saying this was nothing but minor and pro-active. Sorry, these are problems and the brand overall has taken a nosedive because of all the problems over the last year. Recalling thousands of cars is not for NOTHING. It is done because once again, there is another problem.

You make it sound like its all one big conspiracy against Toyota. Like the govt got consumers, the media, and everybody else to get together to go after just one car manufacturer. Why not Hyundai? Why not Honda? How about Nissan? They do not have a vested interest in those brands. Or perhaps Toyota has some problems right now and they are working on fixing them.

 

[TC]

I said it before and I will say it again, not all of the problems are the peoples. We get it, you love Toyota and to you they can do no harm. Like saying this was nothing but minor and pro-active. Sorry, these are problems and the brand overall has taken a nosedive because of all the problems over the last year. Recalling thousands of cars is not for NOTHING. It is done because once again, there is another problem.

You make it sound like its all one big conspiracy against Toyota. Like the govt got consumers, the media, and everybody else to get together to go after just one car manufacturer. Why not Hyundai? Why not Honda? How about Nissan? They do not have a vested interest in those brands. Or perhaps Toyota has some problems right now and they are working on fixing them.

THANK YOU!!!!!

the massive sized toyota blinders that are worn in this thread is borderline obnoxious. there's no consipiracy here by the US gov,t. to get toyota, and if you think that ordering a recall is just easy and inexpensive then you're seriously mistaken. recalls happen b/c there is a problem with the vehicle that can, and will, affect the safety of the operator.

i guess what's really going on is that stupid, big footed, and elderly americans are the only ones who drive toyota's!!