Figuring it out yourself....

[derelict]

This morning as I was driving in to work, I was listening to the PGA Tour channel on my XM radio :act-up: as I usually do...

They were talking about some of the new young players that learned the game on their own and had "their own" swings, not cookie cutter swings that are taught to people who take lessons or go to college in the US.

I found it a very interesting topic because they mentioned that many European players learn to find the swing that is best for them, and the ones who come to the US for college often end up losing this unique swing and many cannot recover. They also said that Ricky Fowler was in the camp of the young players who have their own unique swing, not a widely taught "ideal" swing.

Since I read so many posts that say people should go take lessons, I wonder how you all feel about this? Should one be taught "how" to swing, or should one be taught how to find their swing?

 

[JR]

I have never had lessons, for financial reasons, so I have tried to follow the basics, but I dont think every swing should be so vanilla. I see a lot of 5' 8 guys with big guts (like me) who try to swing like tiger. Just doesnt work.

 

[dtak84]

I believe lessons help you establish solid fundamentals. Each swing ends up being unique in their own way, but, I think progress can be limited without a good foundation.

 

[timothymcn]

I have never had lessons, for financial reasons, so I have tried to follow the basics, but I dont think every swing should be so vanilla. I see a lot of 5' 8 guys with big guts (like me) who try to swing like tiger. Just doesnt work.

Hey! I'm one of those 5'8" guys. I've never tried to model my swing after Tiger, but I definitely swing for the fences. I for one, am proud of my homegrown swing, and love it when I occasionally outdrive the big guys I find myself playing with. I usually let them get up ahead of me only to realize that the farthest ball up on the fairway isn't their's. It doesn't happen too often, but it sure is great when it does. They usually try to politely hide their surprise, but I always imagine that in their heads they are saying something to the effect of "That little sh*t just outdrove me?!?"

 

[JR]

Hey! I'm one of those 5'8" guys. I've never tried to model my swing after Tiger, but I definitely swing for the fences. I for one, am proud of my homegrown swing, and love it when I occasionally outdrive the big guys I find myself playing with. I usually let them get up ahead of me only to realize that the farthest ball up on the fairway isn't their's. It doesn't happen too often, but it sure is great when it does. They usually try to politely hide their surprise, but I always imagine that in their heads they are saying something to the effect of "That little sh*t just outdrove me?!?"

Haha. Yeah, when I was 12 my dad just couldnt figure out how I was outdriving him. Confused him even more when I told him he was swinging too hard...

 

[jmingt]

Problem is.....among all the swings you see in the tour no matter the shape and size, there's fundamentals in there that are similar across them.

Now, some people have the time, natural ability, and intuitivenesss to pick it up and may develop differing ways of getting there.....but for all those, there's plenty MORE who do not. You have to remember here......you're watching the professional tour......they're the 100+ best of the how many millions of people who play?

It's like saying Isaac Newton didn't need calculus classes to discover it! Well, there's a lot of people who don't, but pointers will go a long way helping a majority.

On top of all that, for me, there's really the reality of time. I'm not paid to play, and really, I'm lucky to spend a couple hours a week to hit balls whereas they're doing it everyday. Frankly, having someone to help "point the way" to make my practice time better spent is fine by me!

 

[jbardet]

Problem is.....among all the swings you see in the tour no matter the shape and size, there's fundamentals in there that are similar across them.

Now, some people have the time, natural ability, and intuitivenesss to pick it up and may develop differing ways of getting there.....but for all those, there's plenty MORE who do not. You have to remember here......you're watching the professional tour......they're the 100+ best of the how many millions of people who play?

It's like saying Isaac Newton didn't need calculus classes to discover it! Well, there's a lot of people who don't, but pointers will go a long way helping a majority.

On top of all that, for me, there's really the reality of time. I'm not paid to play, and really, I'm lucky to spend a couple hours a week to hit balls whereas they're doing it everyday. Frankly, having someone to help "point the way" to make my practice time better spent is fine by me!

woah. now that's a post. Can't argue with any of that.

But for me, I don't have the patience to go through a lesson and have the guy tell me i need to change 10 things about my swing. I don't have the time or energy to suck for 3 months before striking a good golf ball. Also financially, I can't afford $50-100 lessons. But I'll never be the person to get into all the gadgets and gizmos to straighten out or tighten up this and that. I am a former baseball and current hockey player. My swing comes from those two sports and I have over time tweaked it myself to fit golf. But I transfer the weight in golf just like I do my slapshot. (Ok, now i'm guiltily spamming this video around this board, but I just posted my first swing video. see this thread, http://www.thehackersparadise.com/forum/showthread.php?12762-My-first-swing-video! )

And in addition, I especially will not be buying a new putter for a long, long time. Not until the putter is actually holding me back. I have so much to learn about reading a green and creating a putting routine. A new putter is not going to help with any of that!

 

[jmingt]

jbardet - Now that's not a bad looking swing. I doubt there's 10 major things you need to work on there, but I'll leave that for a pro. Either way, you do have some sort of training in that you've played baseball and hockey which in their own way probabaly have taught you balance/power generation/coordination.

I think generally speaking, the main goal we should all have is to have fun and as long as we're having fun everything's moot. In terms of a improvement path though, I think it's very easy for us to think:
a) perhaps a new club will fix it (doubtful unless your problem's minor)
b) perhaps more driving range work will fix it (sure....but do you actually have something in mind you're working on or are you just cementing a bad habit? I doubt it's a understatement to say >90% of the people just go and randomly beat out balls and pray for an epiphany)
c) perhaps lessons will work
d) perhaps it'll magically improve tomorrow. (I'm a strong believer of this one )

I think in simple terms, I think people should go see their local college team practice or perhaps go see a tournament live. For many people, it's quite eyeopening to see the ball flight and the sound the ball makes when properly struck. Personally, I think if you're able to generate something similar, you may be on your way of figuring it out. If not, lessons may be beneficial. I've seen my teacher instruct a 5"5 lady smack balls out there like that, and I'm convinced that's more pure technique than power.

 

[jnug]

The similarity between the pros is the club head at impact. Regardless of how they get there they get the club head square at impact with their hands ahead. How you get to that position can vary to some degree but unless you get there, you are not going to hit the ball at least not very well nor consistently.

I believe that there are people that have had the good fortune to have picked up the game early in life and have developed a way to get the club face square without much assistance. On the other hand if you came to the game late and don’t have much time to devote to it I suspect you are going to need some help.

However I do not think that teaching pros are all cut out of some mold and it can be difficult to find someone that is optimal to your particular set of needs. In my opinion the best approach for someone that has come to the game later in life is to try to get to a good set of fundamentals before going to a pro. Based on my experience, invariably I think you end up hitting a wall or a plateau in your improvement. Sometimes you plateau because you have picked up some bad habits along the way. Sometimes you have just gone down the wrong path. Whatever the reason, that is the time to seek some help.

 

[the_paulo]

Hey! I'm one of those 5'8" guys. I've never tried to model my swing after Tiger, but I definitely swing for the fences. I for one, am proud of my homegrown swing, and love it when I occasionally outdrive the big guys I find myself playing with. I usually let them get up ahead of me only to realize that the farthest ball up on the fairway isn't their's. It doesn't happen too often, but it sure is great when it does. They usually try to politely hide their surprise, but I always imagine that in their heads they are saying something to the effect of "That little sh*t just outdrove me?!?"

So you wouldn't get more satisfaction out of putting the ball closer to the pin with an approach? Or taking their money at the end of the round by playing some solid stuff all the way?

There's 3 or 4 older guys I play with, short hitters, who love taking money off guys with your view

 

[Fourputt]

I doubt that anyone would try to imitate my swing, but it works for me. I have never seen a video of my swing and I never plan to. I know my swing well enough that I can "feel" when something is wrong and I can fix it on the fly. Seeing it on a video or trying to work with a pro would probably just tend to change things that don't really need changing. I'm happy with what I have and I'm going to stay with it.

As far as the Tour goes, I like the guys with individuality. I really feel that the swings that work best under pressure are the ones like mine where they can feel what's going on and fix it without needing to have a swing coach analyze a half hour of video then put in 50 hours on the range, and still not know if it's fixed until the pressure is applied again.

 

[Tmex]

I think at some point, everyone has to figure it out on their own.. to a certain extent. But there are some constants with all types of swings. Impact zone is probably the biggest. What happens in that little space determines a big portion of your shot. How everyone gets the face of the club to that spot is gonna vary. I seek out lessons in hopes that I can find someone that will take my natural swing and help mold it. But I still have to be able to problem solve on my own when the instructor isnt there. Years of doing other sports and martial arts has given my swing some odd tendencies. That's why I really like going to Andy on THP. He teaches more on feel.

 

[chilly]

I started golfing late in life, 33, so it made sense to get to a pro. That said, I can honestly say they haven't done a thing to help my swing because the ones I've seen have been pretty crappy, but I can see the benefits of having someone to guide your swing development.

For every "pro" that is self taught, there are 1000 self taught hackers out there that could be playing MUCH better golf with a little help from a pro. I have a crap swing, but some of the stuff I see on ranges is so bad it has to make the game almost impossible for guys...and it wouldn't be hard to fix with just a few sessions.

 

[Who'sCounting]

For me its been a combination. I took some lessons but spent a lot of time on the range figuring out by myself how to put those lessons into practice, developing my own swing. But I think there are those fundamentals that are imperative to consistency. Every good swing has them. I love looking at the videos of my swing over time and see how much it has changed. I think lessons are imperative for anyone that doesnt have an athletic background, or doesnt know the swing basics, but putting that theory and knowledge into practice is more of a feeling, knowing youre doing the right thing, and how it feels, to have everything right. For me it came down to knowing what I'm supposed to do but putting those thoughts out of my mind and learning how to feel the swing, otherwise I would over think it.

 

[timothymcn]

So you wouldn't get more satisfaction out of putting the ball closer to the pin with an approach? Or taking their money at the end of the round by playing some solid stuff all the way?

There's 3 or 4 older guys I play with, short hitters, who love taking money off guys with your view

Actually if I'm honest, it's been a few rounds since I've hit my driver well. I've been all over the place so much off the tee, that during my last round, I found myself wishing there were more par 3s. I guess I didn't quite paint the picture I intended to in my original post. I only wanted to say that us small guys can be just as aggressive as anyone else. My swing doesn't look like Tiger's, but I'd like to think that I attack the ball like he does, and although it hasn't been working too well recently, I don't see any reason why size would determine who you should model your swing or mindset after.
I didn't mean to give the impression that I play golf just to outdrive people, it's only that I particularly enjoy it when I outdrive big burly guys who consider themselves big hitters.
Actually my favorite shot is probably a stretched 7 or 6 for a long Par 3 that's between clubs. If you get everything you could out of that 7 and it sticks - well there's nothing better - the sound is intoxicating too...

 

[IceyShanks]

I believe lessons help you establish solid fundamentals. Each swing ends up being unique in their own way, but, I think progress can be limited without a good foundation.

I agree, I think you have to start with the fundamentals, but then every one's swing could be entirely different from everyone else. If you think about all the little things evey pro does well you could create an awesome, wait for it....,


FRANKENSWING!!!

 

[jbardet]

alright, i have to retract a little what I said. I was feeling pretty cocky and thinking my swing was somehow great, despite my lack of golf knowledge. When I picked up a baseball bat as a kid I was great with it, then I picked up hockey quickly as well. So I got addicted to golf recently and thought my shot was great, mostly just from range practice. But getting out there and playing 18, it's obvious I need some coaching. Even the most simple of things, my grip for example, are terribly wrong.

A lesson would be great for me but only after I do basic research on a swing so I can understand the lingo and keep up with the pro's teaching. After doing some of this research recently, I am ready for the pro to help me facilitate my swing change.

 

[jdjanda]

I've taken two lessons for a middle of the road pro, he gave me a couple of pointers that I use today, and a couple of bad pointers that I quickly dropped.

I have a pretty good grasp on the components of a good swing and understand swing path and the ball flight that results. Right now I've been progressing well with time at the range, and real rounds. For me my biggest problem continues to be over swinging (tempo)

Maybe if I hit a plateau I'll look for lessons again.

 

[the_paulo]

Actually if I'm honest, it's been a few rounds since I've hit my driver well. I've been all over the place so much off the tee, that during my last round, I found myself wishing there were more par 3s. I guess I didn't quite paint the picture I intended to in my original post. I only wanted to say that us small guys can be just as aggressive as anyone else. My swing doesn't look like Tiger's, but I'd like to think that I attack the ball like he does, and although it hasn't been working too well recently, I don't see any reason why size would determine who you should model your swing or mindset after.
I didn't mean to give the impression that I play golf just to outdrive people, it's only that I particularly enjoy it when I outdrive big burly guys who consider themselves big hitters.
Actually my favorite shot is probably a stretched 7 or 6 for a long Par 3 that's between clubs. If you get everything you could out of that 7 and it sticks - well there's nothing better - the sound is intoxicating too...

Don't worry, I'm one of those guys my playing partners love taking money from! All too often I'm 30 yards past them off the tee, either in the trees or just too close for a full wedge, and end up getting in trouble.
It does feel good to knock one past the guys who put a lot of stock into hitting the ball a long way, since that takes them down a peg or two, but it's difficult to keep your concentration on your own game at the same time.

 

[Badger_Golfer]

Some people arent able to find their own swing. It could be that they arent patient enough or they simply dont understand the mechanics of the golf swing well enough to find a swing that works for them.
There is nothing wrong with taking lessons. Ive personally never taken lessons but I am looking into do so simply because I feel that while Ive managed to teach myself a pretty good swing on my own, Im sure a pro will notice thing that Im doing which I should be working on that I probably dont even realize Im doing.
For what it would cost me to buy a decent video camera to record my swing, I could probably take enough lessons that would fix my swing faults.

 

[Bridges]

im a self taught one. guess this is my 4th year playing(started junior year of HS) but actually only 3rd year of really playing instead of just going out and and hitting a couple off of every tee because we were there just to have a good time. i did not get to play a whole lot in highschool because i was busy with other sports so we usually played on sundays and that was it. it wasnt till after my senior year when i actually started taking it somewhat serious and could actually have more than one day to practice. i played a ton of baseball through my years so i guess that helped me out some with it and i wasnt terrible when i started just did not know what the heck i was doing or how hard to hit clubs or even the way to swing right. but i managed to stay around the 95-105 area then i started practicing short game alot(1 wedge) at the range, around the green, and in the back yard. so that helped me out alot. i could not drive the ball worth a crap, i would close the club head of the driver a lot because i had bad slice but if i ever caught one squarely it would fly because i swung so hard. Then i headed to college after that summer and got to play some but not a whole lot and figured out some stuff out and dropped a few strokes here and there but still could not do anything consistent with the driver or irons but was able to shoot 89-94 on average. then last summer came around and something finally clicked that i needed an inside to outside swing and that would be able to help me hit straight and finally i was able to cure my slice (still slice on some days when i hurry my swing) i sold my r7 irons i had last year and started playing TM racs and they where pretty good to me, then a couple more things clicked and instead of using a 56 wedge on everything around the green i added a couple wedges and that really helped me out. so i finally got down where i could shoot 84-90 on most days, which i think isnt bad for me at the age of 20 and considering i havent played a whole lot of golf. i have never taken a lesson at all, just some tips from a couple buddies, and never had clubs fitted before. i hope real soon to get my clubs fitted to me and take a few lessons because i know my swing isnt perfect at all and need some help on it. but thats just my little story on figuring stuff out for myself and adjusting to the game. one of these days i hope to get down to around a 3-5 handicap. i think with a fitting of clubs and few lessons i can get there, but anyways thanks for reading my ramble and it goes to show you that you can actually figure it out yourself and play bogey golf but its alot easier with lessons and learning good habits starting out instead of trying to break them later on down the road.

 

[CharlieMoy]

There are two types of lessons,
Enhancing and rebuilding.

A pro can take you through an entire rebuild of your golf swing, or he can tweak it to get the ball rolling in the right direction. IE, Fixing a slice, more consistency, etc..

 

[Bridges]

There are two types of lessons,
Enhancing and rebuilding.

A pro can take you through an entire rebuild of your golf swing, or he can tweak it to get the ball rolling in the right direction. IE, Fixing a slice, more consistency, etc..

dude, im completely aware of that.

 

[Prinz]

I believe lessons help you establish solid fundamentals. Each swing ends up being unique in their own way, but, I think progress can be limited without a good foundation.

I agree. Without sound fundamentals, it's nearly impossible to fix your own swing therefore limiting your advancement. You might not need to have a cookie cutter swing but you still need to know and understand why your own unique swing is different.

 

[Badger_Golfer]

I think that theres only so far you can go on your own. A pro is going to see things that you probably wont. If you want to play the best golf you can, lessons are a good idea. If all the pros use them (considering how talented they are), then us mere mortals (who arent nearly so talented) should be at least considering lessons.