TC
Keg Thrower
i have to agree with your assesment here, which ultimately points in the direction that perhaps, just perhaps, TM supplies better products to their staffers.
Camilo Villegas Leaving Cobra For Taylormade
i have to agree with your assesment here, which ultimately points in the direction that perhaps, just perhaps, TM supplies better products to their staffers.
CharlieMoy
Well-known member
TM seems to be a proactive company in terms of new technology, cobra seems to be reactive. I could be wrong though
TC
Keg Thrower
again, i would agree completely. thanks for your opinion.
CharlieMoy
Well-known member
wrong. I am not trying to start anything.
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COMPLETE CONTRADICTION. YOu said irons have not changed and make no difference. Each time new irons came out he tried them and passed. He was playing older irons (Bridgestone Protos) and then the NEW TECHNOLOGY comes out that adds the Dual Pockets and he tries them and LOVES THEM! Loved everything about them. I GUESS THAT MEANS that there is some NEW TECHNOLOGY in irons.
Nobody ever said that the technology is the reason these guys are great. BUT WHAT YOU SAID WAS THAT THERE WAS NO NEW TECHNOLOGY! It is a complete fabrication and so wrong on so many levels. Once again I am done. You can argue it till you are blue in the face with the rest here. Like I said before, when you get on a tour van and see this stuff or have ANY actual facts to back up the stuff you are saying, let me know. Because I try to speak in facts on this board when making blanket statements about this and that like you are doing.
You painting a broad brush and saying technology has not changed in 30 years does a complete disservice to people that work hard every day in these industries. NO COMPANIES WOULD BE SPENDING ANYTHING in R and D if that was the case. They could spend even more on marketing. Explain the SuperFast phenomenon for me please? Not a single guy other than one from the TM camp switched to that driver when it came out. Not one! Yet after testing they are jumping like crazy to the head. If you think it is because TM is telling them to, you are sorely mistaken. TM would just assume have them in the SuperTri, SuperDeep, or regular R9.
But once again, I am sure you will say it is because TM says to do it. And once again that would be without any facts to support and frankly be flat out wrong! Im finished with it. You have been completely wrong with more than half of what you have called "fact", just like in the Ryan Moore thread. You can enjoy it with the rest here.
Here is a small sampler of new technologies in the last 30 years to remember though
Vacuum Casting, Metal tech, titanium composites,
Bridges
New member
i guess your reffering to me as one of the "yes men"? I have been trying to figure out this whole time how you think 30 year old irons are not any better than newer irons so if i get labeled as agreeing with someone that thinks your wrong in saying this so be it but you will have A LOT of people saying your wrong if you truly believe 30 year old irons arent any better than todays irons.
We absolutely DO NOT know that for sure. He may have signed for similar money but could have a huge incentives package plus what TM pays for club counts each week. Even guys with other deals get paid to play a tm club.
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- #333
Really? That is no different for every single brand out there.
TC
Keg Thrower
you're right, we don't know, i was just curious for opinions, that's all. i'm sure there's more to it than we'll ever know. maybe he just likes their colors better, or their staff bags, i don't have a clue, just trying to get opinions.
Bridges
New member
just out of curiosity weezy. Has the golf ball had any new technology done to it in the last 30 years in your eyes? or is camilo's pro v1 ball pretty much the same?
I have my opinion and that is just what it is. I have no problems with anyone disagreeing with me but you have attacked me and called into question my integrity. I believe companies would as soon blow up their foundry as admit that they can't get much more out of a golf club. That may change but i haven't seen it and if you have then that is you and your opinion but don't attack me for mine.
I think that is where most of the distance gains have come from. The new balls are miles ahead of the old wound or balata balls and the dimple pattern is much different too. I think forgiveness would decrease alot if we went back to balatas as well. It may come to that if the usga decides to get heavy handed with the bomb and gouge.
TC
Keg Thrower
who exactly is this aimed at? i haven't attacked you at all.
TOAOST21
New member
Look this whole tread really boils down to two things
1) there are a lot of people who think that TM spends more money on R&D and therefore puts out a slightly better product first not that Cobra doesnt catch up eventually but lets look at it who had the moveable face angle first then a couple of months later who added it? Many of us aren't so called "Yes" men we just feel like TM is a superior product, and any fool who thinks better equipment doesnt make you better, i got ocean front property in colorado i wanna sell you.
and more importantly
2) JB runs a major golf media site and publication has relationships with pro players and many top dogs in the equipment industry see the staff bag and putter pic thread for proof, until another member of this forum can show me his collection like that, and the videos and interviews WHILE ACTUALLY ON THE TOUR VAN I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say hmmmm. JB might actually know what he is talking about whereas the other person making such accusations (the only member) doesn't. Most people here agreed since the money was the same than something else had to prompt him to make the move if not money and both companies have made public announcements and statements saying they weren't forcing players to wear their apparel line than what other than a change of equipment could it have been. we all know tour vans are at the beckon call of the pros so it most likely isnt support staff. Camilo definitely didn't say "Cobra Sucks" with his change, but he definitely said one of two things, either TM is better or Cobra needs to get their house in order. Oh yeah it's a million dollar plus a year industry so ummmm personally i think the house in order thing is a stretch
1) there are a lot of people who think that TM spends more money on R&D and therefore puts out a slightly better product first not that Cobra doesnt catch up eventually but lets look at it who had the moveable face angle first then a couple of months later who added it? Many of us aren't so called "Yes" men we just feel like TM is a superior product, and any fool who thinks better equipment doesnt make you better, i got ocean front property in colorado i wanna sell you.
and more importantly
2) JB runs a major golf media site and publication has relationships with pro players and many top dogs in the equipment industry see the staff bag and putter pic thread for proof, until another member of this forum can show me his collection like that, and the videos and interviews WHILE ACTUALLY ON THE TOUR VAN I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say hmmmm. JB might actually know what he is talking about whereas the other person making such accusations (the only member) doesn't. Most people here agreed since the money was the same than something else had to prompt him to make the move if not money and both companies have made public announcements and statements saying they weren't forcing players to wear their apparel line than what other than a change of equipment could it have been. we all know tour vans are at the beckon call of the pros so it most likely isnt support staff. Camilo definitely didn't say "Cobra Sucks" with his change, but he definitely said one of two things, either TM is better or Cobra needs to get their house in order. Oh yeah it's a million dollar plus a year industry so ummmm personally i think the house in order thing is a stretch
CharlieMoy
Well-known member
Not you then.
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Lmao...
We are not "yes men." What we are, are people who happen to agree with someone who knows the industry as well as anyone on the planet (Dont get a big head JB, just honesty).
What we are doing is watching you make a fool of yourself.
YOU need to realize that YOU are WRONG. You're in over your head, and you are wrong. Its that simple.
It was aimed at this type of post. I say most tour players can play just as well with older "outdated" clubs and that some still actually do! How does that make me wrong or right for that matter? I just don't think there is much to be gained, once your at that level, from technology. There shouldn't be any hotter drivers out there since there is a max cor on the center of the face and that just leaves shafts, which i agree are much better. I said a tour player or any player could take a set of 30 year old PING EYE 2's and not loose a stroke once they were fitted. You guys brought up the old butter knives and blades then get upset and say stop mentioning blades because they don't count as only 10 percent still play em. I said Drivers haven come very far since the SUPERQUAD. Now if you can disagree with that then go ahead but i maintain my stance.
TOAOST21
New member
i know you can name the players who play them but do me a favor when was the last time those guys WON on tour
does FCT on almost every brand count?
i brought up the butter knives and find me one pro just one, and that means get in the ropes sit down and ask, find just one who says you know what i could play just as well with those as i do know, then ask why they changed i promise it wasn't purely marketing b/c some players do play clubs that are a few <5 yrs. old most however love the new tech.
Bridges
New member
No you said ALL clubs havent come far at all in 30 years. Or to be exact "they have hit a wall". And also said "there is not much of a difference in newer clubs and clubs from 30 years ago"
you even say 2 different things in those quotes.
You basically just quoted me sayin drivers havent changed much in RECENT years (superquad) and irons in about 30 years (eye 2s) so there ya go.
I havent made any contradictions he tried to piece together a bunch of quotes out of context.
Bridges
New member
actually you said in your quote "i said ALL clubs have hit a wall"
not sure what the "there ya go" comment means. But instead of getting this thread more off topic than what it already is, there is a new thread about old clubs were we can discuss this and id really like to hear how you think 30 year old equipment and i guess now recent drivers havent changed much. not being a jerk at all id just really like to hear what you have to say about both. the thread is up with a poll to.
out of context? its exactly what you said.
Yeah thats what i said all clubs have hit a wall. I also said at what point i thought they hit said wall. I didn't say ALL clubs hit a wall 30 years ago, which is what you are implying, now did I? I have stuck to my guns and you can't deny that. Agreeing with me or not is not the issue calling into question my honesty is.
Bridges
New member
dude your comment says ALL clubs therefore many people in this world think you are implying every single club hit a wall 30 years ago. Im no mind reader i didnt know you changed your mind and decided it was just 5 or 6 years ago that drivers hit a wall. Sorry i was just taking you honesty from the first post that you said to this response earlier..
My very first comment to you
your response
and i took you ALL clubs response as in all brands 30 years ago.
im done commenting in this thread lets take it to the old clubs thread and start new because this is no more than a he said this argument now. we can start fresh in that thread and id really like to know your opinion about it..