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Slow Play on Tour

aggro said:
I dunno. I know they play slow, but it isn't exactly a crawl. It is kinda annoying to watch, but I don't think they are really out of bounds there. Maybe the tourshould take steps to put these slower players in the final groupings? Or allow a fast group to play through, like normal human beings do?
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Some of these guys are terribly slow. I think it negatively effects other players. There is no need to spend 5 minutes on a putt.
 
I think that they should be able to play in 4.5 hours and still have enough time to figure out what they need to do. They never have 4 people in a group and there are only 2 on Sat and Sun. There is no excuse to take 5.5 hours to play 18 holes of golf that comes to just over 18 min per hole. As a college golfer I have had to drag myself through several 5 plus hour rounds in groups of 3 and it is terribly painful for a guy that usually plays 18 in 3 hours at most.
 
HoosierGolfer said:
99.9% of the slow players have NO idea of how slow they really are and because of that, it is becoming a rare thing now days to have a slow group wave you thru. The courses are loaded with people that have no idea.
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I realize this thread is about the Tour, so it's a little off-topic, but I completely agree with this. I think I'm a fairly fast player, and I see things in the groups ahead of me all the time when I'm waiting that are causing slow play. However, most people don't know that they're doing it, and I don't think there's an easy solution for them to realize it unless someone points it out to them.

On Tour, I think that it really only takes 1 or 2 groups to be really slow to affect all of the other groups. The shot clock idea is an interesting one, what would be more interesting is to actually see it out there following the groups!
 
My biggest beef with this... They are alowwing people to call in and tell them of rules violations they see on TV, and on this subject they don't have the balls to enforce the rules on slow play. They give guys 2 stroke penalties in majors because some schmuck calls in, but won't penalize a group or player for being 2 or 3 holes back. Crazy hypocrasy. Give out a few of these panalties and the pace will pick up guaranteed.
 
15 mins a hole is 4 1/2 hrs for 18... these guys rarely hit 5 shots on any given hole so thats more than 3 mins per shot they can take any more than 5 mins is ridiculous unless/even if you lost a ball in the junk
 
I am not a fan of slow play on the tour , but you have to remember that these guys are doing this for a living and some big $$$$ on the line.
I just might take a little longer on my putts to and still miss!!!!!!
 
I'm glad to see this subject on the blogs. Slow play is killing coverage this year. Give them a 2 stroke penalty if they don't make the clock. My course sets out clocks along the course timed so that you see your tee time all the way around the course. 7:00 at 1, 3,5,7, 10, 15 etc... Tells you when you need to shutup and play. Gps for pros? As if that will help, it would just give them something else to argue about. If these "Pros" can't figure out their yardages through markers, marked sprinkler heads, yardage books, gps aided practice round, and a caddie, they never will. These guys are supposed to be pros right. A professional is a guy who can be trusted to do his work on his own with quality and in a timely manner.
 
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HoosierGolfer said:
99.9% of the slow players have NO idea of how slow they really are and because of that, it is becoming a rare thing now days to have a slow group wave you thru. The courses are loaded with people that have no idea.
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It's pretty easy to tell. If you aren't keeping up with the group in front, you are playing slow.
 
(I haven't read through each response, so this may have been brought up already)

Every group on tour has a walking scorer and a standard bearer with a sign that shows the current scores of the players. How about they attach a digitial clock to the sign that will serve as a shot clock?

The problem isn't the players off the tee. Most of the time, they know what they want to do. The problems are on the green and in the fairway.

For arguments sake, lets say that when the players are walking to the fairway, the clock starts when all balls are located and the players arrive at their ball. Start the clock, they get 60 seconds (just making up the time amount as an example) as a group. If the group is waiting for the green to clear, that time supercedes the 60 second group time and will move to the individual time. The first player to play then gets 40 seconds to hit, but can hit at any time in the initial 60. The next gets 35 seconds. The third gets 30 seconds. At most, it takes 3 minutes for all players to hit from the fairway.

Once the players reach the green area they are given 75 seconds as a group to access their situations, then 30-40 seconds for each player to hit until all balls are holed out. Chances are, most players wouldn't need to use the full amount of time anyway. But at least all groups would be playing about the same pace which would improve the overall flow of the course.

Exceptions could be made for different circumstances, lost balls, hazards, rulings, etc., but at least each player would know the time they have for each shot under normal circumstances. They could be given 2 or 3 time-outs or extensions to use per nine. First violation is a warning, everything after that is a penalty stroke. Additionally, let them use GPS and/or rangefinders so they can get their yardages quickly without having to walk all over the place when they aren't near a marker. I know there are an abundace of circumstances where this may not work seamlessly, but people with more time on their hands than me could probably figure it out.
 
AHA said:
The guys on GC Morning Drive were just talking about this and I agree with what they were saying. It would help immensely if they just started enforcing the "shot clock" that to my understanding already exists in the rules. E.g. you have 50 seconds to make your shot if you're first to play in the group and 40 seconds for the remaining players.
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Yeah, isn't there a rule on tour where you have x amount of time to finish a round and if you get to far behind where they should be, they get put on a clock and if they don't catch up they get docked strokes. I remember a couple of announcers bringing it up when it occasionally happens. Didn't hear it this weekend though which was odd.

I think it'd be ok to institute a shot clock per player per shot. Say on the tee you get 2 minutes to hit, once player a hits and leaves the box then player b's time starts. then once everybody reaches their ball in the fairway/found in a wayward spot, the furthest out is on the clock 3 minutes to hit, once they hit player b's time starts. Same thing when they get to the green, 3 minutes, maybe on occasion you could have written exceptions to grant extra time for weird lies. The first time the player exceeds time is a warning, everytime after that is a stroke. I don't think it's fair to penalize the whole group if one guy is taking his sweet arse time, you can only control what you do, not what kevin na and his plum bobbing caddy do.

For slow play in the leisure golf world, yeah i agree it's frustrating especially with the nike generation of golfers who showed up to the game with no understanding of course etiquette. Me, i won't lie sometimes i can get slow, i'm never in a hurry to finish golfing, but i'm always very good to let other groups through (i've even had occasions where i'll overestimate how slow i'm playing/fast their playing, let them through and end up waiting on them the rest of the round), I learned the game from a friend who comes from a family of golfers so i was fortunate to learn the etiquette with the game, that's something a lot of weekend hackers have no learned concept of when they picked up the game.
 
All they would have to do is find the slow group. Tell them to pick it up at the next teebox. If that doesn't help break out the stopwatch and start in with the penalties. Everyone has a shot here or there that takes a little longer, some guys just feel they have the right to take as long as they want for every shot. It's usually one player out of the group anyway and the others are just stuck with the guy.
 
The group shouldn't be put on the clock, just the individual. It's one thing if it's because of a ruling, or looking for a lost ball, but it's another if the player is just taking his own sweet time over every shot.

It not only annoys the other player's in the group, but those behind, especially if they have some momentum going.

Penalize the individual one stroke, but only if the slow play doesn't involve rulings, lost balls, of events of that nature.
 
Sean said:
The group shouldn't be put on the clock, just the individual. It's one thing if it's because of a ruling, or looking for a lost ball, but it's another if the player is just taking his own sweet time over every shot.

It not only annoys the other player's in the group, but those behind, especially if they have some momentum going.

Penalize the individual one stroke, but only if the slow play doesn't involve rulings, lost balls, of events of that nature.
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Agreed!
 
I agree with Sean as well. Never really seemed fair that the group goes on the clock. It would also help if the players actually knew the rules. Calling for the rules offical for even the most obvious rules always takes forever. I don't expect things to change anytime soon. Fines won't do anything. The slow players need to be ragged on by their peers,shamed into playing faster.
 
CInk and the Poultergeist have already been asked to pick up the pace. Geez
 
I can't stand watching JB Holmes play. His pre-shot routine just grinds on me for some reason.

Putting: Walk to ball from fairway, back away, walk back up, walk to other side of hole, stand awkwardly and hold up club, walk back to ball, walk away from ball and stand awkwardly again with club in air, walk to ball, 3 practice strokes, back away again, go back over ball, pause........., putt and miss. UGH!
 
tnc200 said:
It's pretty easy to tell. If you aren't keeping up with the group in front, you are playing slow.
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I disagree. It has to be specific, measurable criteria. If you end up in a group behind Daly, Baddeley and Anthony Kim and don't keep it up with those uber fast players that is no fault of your own.

I experienced this first hand at the City Championship 2 years ago. On the 2nd day we got behind a group that were all riding and had shot themselves out of making the cut barring several miracles. We were all +/- 1 of the projected cut and walking. A rules official came and said we had to keep pace with the group ahead. I looked at my watch and we had played 9 holes in 1 hr and 42 mins. I showed him our start time to verify our pace was actually ahead of the recommended pace. He said we had to keep up with the group ahead, simple as that. I told him I would appeal any penalty he gave us and report the content of the conversation we just had. I appealed to the Director of golf, stated that i felt the official was using the laziest approach possible to manage pace, who concurred with me and that official was "trained" on managing tourney pace. I won on principal but lost in general because the distraction of what he did had our whole group so upset we dropped strokes and suffered with only 1 of us ultimately making the cut thanks to an eagle on 9 for my playing partner who made it.
 
jefrazie said:
I can't stand watching JB Holmes play. His pre-shot routine just grinds on me for some reason.

Putting: Walk to ball from fairway, back away, walk back up, walk to other side of hole, stand awkwardly and hold up club, walk back to ball, walk away from ball and stand awkwardly again with club in air, walk to ball, 3 practice strokes, back away again, go back over ball, pause........., putt and miss. UGH!
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Don't remember him always being like this, when he won the Phoenix his 1st year out (2006?) wasn't he more of a walk up and hit kind of player?
 
JNRadio said:
Don't remember him always being like this, when he won the Phoenix his 1st year out (2006?) wasn't he more of a walk up and hit kind of player?
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Not that I remember. I have always thought of him as one of the slowest out there. In fact before last season (2010), he said he had been working on speeding up play, then in the 12th hole of the tournament, he was put on the clock.
 
All4's said:
I disagree. It has to be specific, measurable criteria. If you end up in a group behind Daly, Baddeley and Anthony Kim and don't keep it up with those uber fast players that is no fault of your own.

I experienced this first hand at the City Championship 2 years ago. On the 2nd day we got behind a group that were all riding and had shot themselves out of making the cut barring several miracles. We were all +/- 1 of the projected cut and walking. A rules official came and said we had to keep pace with the group ahead. I looked at my watch and we had played 9 holes in 1 hr and 42 mins. I showed him our start time to verify our pace was actually ahead of the recommended pace. He said we had to keep up with the group ahead, simple as that. I told him I would appeal any penalty he gave us and report the content of the conversation we just had. I appealed to the Director of golf, stated that i felt the official was using the laziest approach possible to manage pace, who concurred with me and that official was "trained" on managing tourney pace. I won on principal but lost in general because the distraction of what he did had our whole group so upset we dropped strokes and suffered with only 1 of us ultimately making the cut thanks to an eagle on 9 for my playing partner who made it.
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Did you wait for the rules official in the parking lot? :alien:
 
All4's said:
I disagree. It has to be specific, measurable criteria. If you end up in a group behind Daly, Baddeley and Anthony Kim and don't keep it up with those uber fast players that is no fault of your own.
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If slow play has become an issue that a marshal needs to address, and a group is not keeping up with the group in front of them, they would be the slow group, and most likely it is just one guy in that group. Of course there are gonna be faster players. I'm one of them, I probably ought to slow down a little, but I walk and I know what I want to do by the time I get to my ball. I usually try to play solo if I can because I don't like rushing others. I just play best when I can get after it.
You just got a bad marshal, 1:42 is plenty fast. The marshal always tries to group me as well, making me wait for a group, I just tell him I'm goin out alone if I've already cleared at the clubhouse.
 
Ben Crane is bad, but he backs it up on the greens. JB Holmes is annoyingly slow for how fast his swing tempo is . Furyk on the greens is the worst, IMO. It would be distracting for me, for sure.
 
tnc200 said:
If slow play has become an issue that a marshal needs to address, and a group is not keeping up with the group in front of them, they would be the slow group, and most likely it is just one guy in that group. Of course there are gonna be faster players. I'm one of them, I probably ought to slow down a little, but I walk and I know what I want to do by the time I get to my ball. I usually try to play solo if I can because I don't like rushing others. I just play best when I can get after it.
You just got a bad marshal, 1:42 is plenty fast. The marshal always tries to group me as well, making me wait for a group, I just tell him I'm goin out alone if I've already cleared at the clubhouse.
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I guess my point is a group's speed is variable, so you cannot use your pace relative to a group in front of you as a measurement of your pace. You have to use something static, like time.
 
Was going to start a new thread, but might as well just add to this one.

Looks like someone has fallen foul of penalties for slow play. Ross Fisher was a shot off the lead on Sunday at the Wales Open, when he was given a one-shot penalty and a fine of £6,000. Right or wrong? Ross isn't too happy...

The thorny issue of slow play has once again reared its ugly head with England's Ross Fisher missing out on the chance of Wales Open glory after being hit with a penalty for slow play during the final round at Celtic Manor.

Fisher, who played in the 2010 European Ryder Cup team, was a shot off the lead when he was given a one-stroke penalty for taking too long over shots on the 11th and 14th holes.


The Englishman ultimately finished in a tie for sixth, two shots behind eventual winner Thongchai Jaidee, and he struggled to contain his annoyance afterwards.
"I don't think it's justice, but there you go," said the 31-year-old, who was also fined £6,000.
The penalty ultimately cost him the chance of a first win since August 2010 and dented his hopes of making a second consecutive Ryder Cup appearance later this year.


However, the European Tour's chief referee John Paramor stood by his decision. He pointed out that Fisher had taken 57 seconds over his second shot on the par-5 11th - 17 more than is permitted. Thee holes later, on the 14th green, he took 55 seconds over his first putt.


Paramor said: "I told him before he teed off at the 15th - and I don't think he was particularly happy."
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How far out of position was his group? His group had to have been behind because 1minute total of slow play wouldn't make a difference.
 
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