We've launched the new forums! Read more here

I ran across this site and want your thoughts on club shaving

SuperStroke
How am I going to know if my fellow competitor is using an illegal club or ball?

If I am beaten in a competition, even if its the $2 nassau, I want to have confidence that it was done fair and square. And if people purchase these products "just for fun" they are supporting a practice that will work its way into competitive situations.

It may not be supporting a criminal enterprise but it puts legitimate competitors at risk. I also don't appreciate buying "knock-offs" because I feel it infringes on the rights of those who develop the original.

Starting to rant...sorry
 
The problem is people will use this in competition and for money, they are taking otherwise legal driver making them non-confirming but from all outward appearances they look like a known legal club. I don't get the impression they are stamping them "non-conforming" on the sole or anything.

How would you like to lose the next outings long drive hole by 10yds to some guy who was hitting hit 5 iron 120yds all day?

The whole site has a "wink-wink nod-nod" feel to it. These are not like "The Hammer" drivers that you can spot from a mile away
 
1. The concept certainly works and you would be able to pick up a pretty reasonable distance gain by doing this to your driver. In the softball/baseball world (where this idea first started) there were HUGE power number changes by doing this to metal bats
2. It only effects distance of shots hit on the sweet spot- hit it on the heel or toe and you won't see much extra distance
3. It weakens the face and overtime the club will give out faster. The harder you swing the faster it will give out. That isn't to say it is going to break on your 3rd trip out, but over time it breaking becomes much more likely.
4. It doesn't fix a swing problem or a slice. If I hit the ball another 30 yards- I am going to be 30 yards further into the woods. What good does that do me?

As far as what it does for the game?
I fall into the mindset that if you are not competing, or keeping an official handicap, you are welcome to do anything that doesn't damage the course. If you want to carry 27 clubs? Go for it but don't play slow. Use a souped up driver? Just don't drive into me. Use a putter with a windsock, laser aiming system, and an RC ball? Just let me play with it on the practice green.

Ultimately, it is no different to me than someone who uses a foot wedge in a noncompetitive game. If they are out having fun and not intruding on anyone else- who am I to say they can't do that? I would never play one for many of the reasons listed above, but I can't tell someone else what to do. Would I want the guy in my group? If he is fun to play with, sure! I just won't put any stock into his scores or his game, nor make any bets against him. Just because I don't believe in something doesn't mean I have the right to tell other people they are wrong. There are places in life where you can do just that, but Golf isn't one of them.

Edit:
I hear the arguments about these finding there way into competition, be it a charity scramble or what not. It is what it is- people will always find a way to cheat. I am FAR less worried about a guy using a souped up driver than the guy who uses an eraser or creative counting. It doesn't take a nonconforming club to do that stuff. Ultimately golf is a gentleman's game and it is expected that are upfront and honest about nonconforming clubs, though I don't feel it is any different than a sandbagger index, footwedge, etc in competitive play that anyone can do. If you can't take the people at face value (or the tourney for that matter) don't play with them.
 
Yeah; I wouldn't ever do this, nor would I ever recommend this. With that said, if someone wants to do this casually and not play for money, tournaments, etc., then I suppose I shouldn't have any problems with it. Just as I shouldn't have any issues if someone wanted to pay the green's fee and throw their ball down the fairway (if they are still fast). Perhaps, it is a victim-less crime... but I think the victim is you; you are cheating yourself. In my opinion, it is like bumper bowling: it usually associated with children (or the childish) and is seen as pure poppycock when grown men do it.
 
interlooper said:
Yeah; I wouldn't ever do this, nor would I ever recommend this. With that said, if someone wants to do this casually and not play for money, tournaments, etc., then I suppose I shouldn't have any problems with it. Just as I shouldn't have any issues if someone wanted to pay the green's fee and throw their ball down the fairway (if they are still fast). Perhaps, it is a victim-less crime... but I think the victim is you; you are cheating yourself. In my opinion, it is like bumper bowling: it usually associated with children (or the childish) and is seen as pure poppycock when grown men do it.
Click to expand...

You are my hero for being another person who says that.

Imagine if they did that to a new Nike driver with the compression channel! hello ultra-trampoline, and waste of money as the entire head collapses in a nice groan of titanium.
 
Great post Rx, there is a time and place for everything. I wouldn't use one because everytime I'm playing I want to compete with myself and improve. I have some friends who just want to have a beer and hit a golf ball, I'm sure they'd get a kick out of doing something like that.
 
blugold said:
I don't see it that way. If I pay for my round and cause no physical damage, what difference does it make? Is a shaved driver any worse than a foot wedge or not taking a drop in the proper spot? If I am playing a casual round with friends for nothing more than sh_ts and giggles, who cares if the driver isn't USGA conforming?

The game of golf is not THAT sacred.
Click to expand...

May not be to you, but it is to me. I don't do "foot wedges" or "improper drops". I play golf 100% of the time. Just sayin....
 
HoosierGolfer said:
May not be to you, but it is to me. I don't do "foot wedges" or "improper drops". I play golf 100% of the time. Just sayin....
Click to expand...

And no one is forcing you to do those things. But to judge that golf should be that important to everyone else is the "holier than thou" attitude that gets golf in trouble at times.

Example:
I wear a shirt and tie on a regular basis when I golf. If I want to do that because I feel it respects the heritage of the game (not the real reason, but for the sake of the argument) I am welcome to. However, I can't expect everyone to wear a shirt and tie for the same reason, and certainly can't treat them different or look down on them because they don't meet my criteria.
 
We can agree to disagree. The OP asked what we thought and I have stated how I feel about it as have others. Nothing more left for me to say.
 
RxGus said:
And no one is forcing you to do those things. But to judge that golf should be that important to everyone else is the "holier than thou" attitude that gets golf in trouble at times.

Example:
I wear a shirt and tie on a regular basis when I golf. If I want to do that because I feel it respects the heritage of the game (not the real reason, but for the sake of the argument) I am welcome to. However, I can't expect everyone to wear a shirt and tie for the same reason, and certainly can't treat them different or look down on them because they don't meet my criteria.
Click to expand...

That analogy holds no water here because one has nothing to do with actual rules

Rules are like laws, despite the punishments being different. Do you look differently at someone based on the choices they make in the "rules of life"? Most would. Right or wrong, most would.

I would be willing to bet that demographics (age) plays a HUGE role in this (ironically also with the last statement I made).
 
Jeanthemachine said:
How am I going to know if my fellow competitor is using an illegal club or ball?

If I am beaten in a competition, even if its the $2 nassau, I want to have confidence that it was done fair and square. And if people purchase these products "just for fun" they are supporting a practice that will work its way into competitive situations.

It may not be supporting a criminal enterprise but it puts legitimate competitors at risk. I also don't appreciate buying "knock-offs" because I feel it infringes on the rights of those who develop the original.

Starting to rant...sorry
Click to expand...


I don't think anyone is condoning using it when money or hcp is on the line.

Now, once you do this to the driver, don't ever trade it in. Someone will end up with a unsuspectingly illegal driver.
 
JB said:
That analogy holds no water here because one has nothing to do with actual rules

Rules are like laws, despite the punishments being different. Do you look differently at someone based on the choices they make in the "rules of life"? Most would. Right or wrong, most would.

I would be willing to bet that demographics (age) plays a HUGE role in this (ironically also with the last statement I made).
Click to expand...

I think the way that you view other people (and relate it to yourself) is consistent- regardless of whether something is a rule or a social expectation.
Rules matter in tournaments, handicaps, and for money. If you are playing for a leisure activity to enjoy yourself the rules have no bearing. They are merely suggestions. As far as I am concerned the only 4 rules of golf are:
1. Have fun
2. Don't damage the course
3. Don't endanger anyone else
4. Don't play slow.

To me, following the "rules of golf" are involved in #1 but I can not reasonably expect all humans to view a situation the way that I do.

To use another example that involves the rules of golf.
If I play as a single and take the time to pull the pin for every putt (because hitting the pin when I am on the green is a two stroke penalty) I am following to the letter of the law, the rules of Golf. Am I to expect every single golfer pulls the pin for every putt? What about the guy that doesn't- Do I care more about golf than him? Can I tell him "you aren't following the rules of golf and I am VERY dissapointed in you" and then ask him to tack on 36 penalty strokes to his round? The simple answer is No.
 
JB said:
That analogy holds no water here because one has nothing to do with actual rules

Rules are like laws, despite the punishments being different. Do you look differently at someone based on the choices they make in the "rules of life"? Most would. Right or wrong, most would.

I would be willing to bet that demographics (age) plays a HUGE role in this (ironically also with the last statement I made).
Click to expand...

So are you saying all of us that dont seem to think its that big of a deal to use in non score keeping rounds are young and have a "look at me" attitude?
Not sure if thats what you meant, but thats the exact way I took your comment. I dont really understand how we have an EGO issue or look at me attitude by saying we think its ok to play one as long as no score is kept.
 
This is the first I have ever heard of club shaving. Now if it was a composite baseball or softball bat I could tell you about it.
 
RxGus said:
Rules matter in tournaments, handicaps, and for money. If you are playing for a leisure activity to enjoy yourself the rules have no bearing. They are merely suggestions. As far as I am concerned the only 4 rules of golf are:
1. Have fun
2. Don't damage the course
3. Don't endanger anyone else
4. Don't play slow.
Click to expand...

If this is the way you view things, all the power to you.

I stand by my thought that demographics plays a HUGE role in this and would bet anything on it.
 
Bridges said:
So are you saying all of us that dont seem to think its that big of a deal to use in non score keeping rounds are young and have a "look at me" attitude?
Not sure if thats what you meant, but thats the exact way I took your comment. I dont really understand how we have an EGO issue or look at me attitude by saying we think its ok to play one as long as no score is kept.
Click to expand...

Did I say that ANYWHERE? What I said is that I believe demographics play a role in this. To expand on that, different generations look at things differently.
 
JB said:
If this is the way you view things, all the power to you.

I stand by my thought that demographics plays a HUGE role in this and would bet anything on it.
Click to expand...

It's not just about golf. I have no right to judge people for being who they are or doing what they want to do (*so long as it doesn't harm other humans and other such obvious exceptions).
If you want me to be honest, I feel my stance on these things (life issues, not golf) has far more to do with my religious beliefs than it does with my age demographic.

I have no problem living to a tighter set of rules/expectations than everyone else, and yet not expecting everyone to live as I do.
 
JB said:
Did I say that ANYWHERE? What I said is that I believe demographics play a role in this. To expand on that, different generations look at things differently.
Click to expand...

No you didnt, but just the way I took it and kind of thought thats what you were implying with the "Look at me" ego comment.
 
RxGus said:
It's not just about golf. I have no right to judge people for being who they are or doing what they want to do (*so long as it doesn't harm other humans and other such obvious exceptions).
If you want me to be honest, I feel my stance on these things (life issues, not golf) has far more to do with my religious beliefs than it does with my age demographic.
Click to expand...

And yet ironically fall right in line with exactly what I said as far as demographics.

Its not a negative thing being a different generation, but its pretty clear in many debates here that demographics play a large role in how things are viewed.
 
JB said:
Did I say that ANYWHERE? What I said is that I believe demographics play a role in this. To expand on that, different generations look at things differently.
Click to expand...

I have to agree.
 
wow that site recieved an upgrade. I don't understand their face shaving tech. I understand the idea of shaving a little off the face to weaken the rigidity and raise the COR (the "springboard" effect). But apparenetly they know how to ADD more metal to the face, Lowering the COR (really, why would you want to do this?) but they claim it makes the head more durable. I'm sorry, would everyone who's every shattered the face of a golf club against a golf ball please raise their hand?

I play in one amateur and one employee/work league and this kind of stuff is heavily watched. However we always have these fun scrambles to raise money for the tournie and those days are so much fun even though they arn't exactly club conforming. Everyone's got a Noodle or some titanium distance ball in one pocket and their spin ball in the other. Our league during the scramble has a rule of all balls must be played one club distance from the orgiinal. Well this one dude always shows up with this giant old Killer Bee driver with a 56" Shaft. He always jokes "Boy's we'll always find the fairway with this club!'

One more thing to add, I spent 1 summer in Japan in 2003. The mentality or culture towards non-conforming clubs are surprisingly a little more lax over there. I played with this wonderful polite old couple. I immediatly recognized their non conforming R7 models and their super Distance balls. Yet they follow the rest of the rules to a tee. On the second hole, since I walk fast I got to the tee box first and just teed it up and fired it away. Ready golf right? After I hit my shot, my friend, who understands the culture better, immediatly began apologizing for me. They said it was no big deal....... but it mattered. And that's how it went the whole summer. Golf..... played just slightly slower than I liked due to strictly following every rule/ettiquete yet with people with non conforming drives and wedges.
 
JB said:
And yet ironically fall right in line with exactly what I said as far as demographics.

Its not a negative thing being a different generation, but its pretty clear in many debates here that demographics play a large role in how things are viewed.
Click to expand...

I added this as an edit to my previous post and didn't want it to get missed.

I have no problem living to a tighter set of rules/expectations than everyone else, and yet not expecting everyone to live as I do.
Click to expand...
I don't see that being the mark of my generation at all. In fact, I think that is pretty significantly different than how most of my peers view the world
 
For everyone up in arms about having some fun during a casual round, no one ever carried more than 14 clubs to test a particular driver or hybrid? Ever play two shots from the same lie? Again, it's a matter of which rules you feel are important and others not so much.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top