Stock PW vs. Aftermarket PW

[the_paulo]

I still think there's an argument for a little, possibly loose, standardisation of lofts. Not that I've got anything against strong lofted clubs or vice versa, but I think it would help the average consumer and occasional golfer adjust to their new set.
We're all probably an exception to this rule, as we tend to be better educated than the majority of golf shoppers.

 

[biggsy]

I just go with the stock PW in the set.

 

[Adam0304]

I just go with the stock PW in the set.

As do I. However, I thought my PW was 47* and it's actually 45* and I've always had a little to big of a gap between PW and GW. Looks like the wedges will be bent to 50, 54, 58.


Tap before talk.

 

[Jman]

I've actually dropped my PW for the 42/49 Niblick combo. Can do way more with those two comfortably and confidently than I personally could with the PW from my set alone. Works for me.

 

[CraftyLefty]

I go with the stock and build my wedge combo around it.

 

[Fourputt]

Well said Sean.

I knew as soon as this thread went up that we would have the 1st post that I quoted here. But in the end, it may have taken a while, but it appears that we got the definition by Fourputt of what he believes a PW is. Turns out it has nothing to do with loft, as long as it is used to pitch the ball and is one club shorter than the 9 iron its a PW. That works for me and does in fact show that his 1st post in the thread (quoted above) really is not the case.

I guess part of my problem is that I don't see a 42° PW as a "transition" club. It might appear to be such in the set it comes from, but I still have trouble with the concept. It may be designed for a higher swing speed than I have or some other factor that I'm unaware of, but a 42° PW is just hard to swallow. I can't see any way that I could use a club with almost the loft of my 8I as a transition club. That has always been my contention, that some manufaturers have gone over the top in strengthening lofts while trying to convince us that it's still a PW. It may look like a duck, but it doesn't quack like one.

 

[CharlieMoy]

I guess part of my problem is that I don't see a 42° PW as a "transition" club. It might appear to be such in the set it comes from, but I still have trouble with the concept. It may be designed for a higher swing speed than I have or some other factor that I'm unaware of, but a 42° PW is just hard to swallow. I can't see any way that I could use a club with almost the loft of my 8I as a transition club. That has always been my contention, that some manufaturers have gone over the top in strengthening lofts while trying to convince us that it's still a PW. It may look like a duck, but it doesn't quack like one.

Chances are it launches and flies the same as your current PW. It quacks like a duck, just one with stronger wings.

 

[JB]

I guess part of my problem is that I don't see a 42° PW as a "transition" club. It might appear to be such in the set it comes from, but I still have trouble with the concept. It may be designed for a higher swing speed than I have or some other factor that I'm unaware of, but a 42° PW is just hard to swallow. I can't see any way that I could use a club with almost the loft of my 8I as a transition club. That has always been my contention, that some manufaturers have gone over the top in strengthening lofts while trying to convince us that it's still a PW. It may look like a duck, but it doesn't quack like one.

But others have no issues using it as a transition club. Others find it extremely versatile. Some find the more loft that goes into a club (wedges) less versatile than others. That in no way means it is not a wedge. You yourself just said what you thought the definition of a PW is. As long as it fits for the individual, you said it yourself, as a transition club and next in line after the 9i, its a PW. That is based on your definition of a wedge.

 

[All4's]

Why is it that none of these "traditionalists" ever show up for outings or ever play golf with other THP'ers? Me thinks it has something to do with being a talker on the interwebs and less of a golfer. It's easy to fight the fight or make an argument on your side of the fence when you know that you'll never actually have to show up and hit golf balls in front of a bunch of strong lofted wedge freaks like many of us seem to be.

I'm tired of this conversation to be honest. It goes in the most redundant circles. Fwiw, I can hit my PW from 5 yards off the green to 140 yards away and I'm comfortable with all of them.

TC, not sure if I'm getting lumped in as a traditionalist or not, but am guessing I may be given that I was making most of the comments against loft "creep". But I'm far from a traditionalist. My friends woudl die laughing at anyone thinking that of me. I was the 1st person at my club or of my friends to have an oversized driver, then 460cc driver, a hybrid, I just ordered up some Ecco Street Premieres and have waged absolute holy wars on the traditionalist who have negatively commented on my Niblick (the club that lead me to THP BTW) that is still in the bag. My position is based on my beliefs as a consumer and player, not tradition. I've also said I don't care what anyone plays, but just pray the OEM's continue to make clubs for everyone so I can get my PW's that have the flight and distance I equate to a PW.

Trust me bro, it kills me I can't make the outing. Candidly I was looking forward to meeting yu and your brother. Plus, I live for demo days. But it is my anniversary and we will be in Italy so I can't make the spring outing. The fall outing is planned during my annual golf trip to Michigan and that trip is a riot that I just can't pass on.

I'd also like to play with THP'ers but I'm the sole THP'er in Lex to my knowledge unfortunately. The closest guys to me are Cinci and L'ville and I rarely go to either to play, but was just talking to MikeDean1981 about the THP outing he is putting together in Cinci. But, again I'm hosed as we have a wedding that weekend that my wife is actually in. That just leaves one last singe friend of hers to get married off.

I'm not afraid to show my swing or my wedges either (though I probably should be afraid to show either since my swing is being revamped and my wedges look like they are from the 80's despite only being 1 year old). I've actually committed to showing video of my swing changes, embarrassing as it may become, as I go through my lessons. I'd hoped to already post them but we have had the wettest April in Kentucky's history of keeping records. Ugh!

Anyway, I hope this helps add a litte to other's virtual perception of me and where I am coming from.

 

[Aries0321]

To answer the original post, stock PW. But I have a few thoughts on the debate. I'll break them up for easier reading.

First - Marketing Distance
Most US companies that make an honest to goodness product, i.e. one that can physically made, throughout our capitalist history, run primarily by the Marketing Dept, have failed. If you make a product, the company needs, must to survive, to heavily invest in R&D. Once the R&D is done, the company has to figure out how to sell it best, Marketing.

To keep within golf, no golf company CEO goes to their respective Marketing Dept and asks for a campaign to be created for next year's PGA Merchandise Show, as an example, to inform the buying public on how much longer their new clubs are than all of their competitors' offerings and then asks the R&D Dept to create longer clubs. It's the exact reverse. CEO sets a strategic vision to make the longest irons in the next few years because distance does sell. R&D within their budget has the task of making a 47° (The current PW is their set.) to go farther. The new club must yield results of the 47°; launch angle, ball flight, spin rate, etc. Through simple, or not so simple, science, R&D manipulates everything about the club to achieve the expected results while traveling further. The resulting club, and the rest of the set, is lofted more strongly. The PW for the new and improved set is now 42.5°.

So now instead of a PW, characteristics described in earlier posting, going say 140 yards, they have one that goes 155 yards. Both clubs are valid PW's because of how the ball predictably behaves except for distance carried. After the new club is created the entire Marketing Dept would be fired if they didn't highlight the greater distance; as stated previously distance sells.

 

[Aries0321]

Second - Personal Perception

My PW may not be your PW and your PW may not be my PW, but they're both still PW's. Speaking mainly of GI and SGI sets, if one learned the game 10-15 years ago when the degree of the club which behaved; ball flight, launch angle, spin, etc.; as a PW was 48-50°. One would have learned how to make the PW do the things a PW should do with a 48-50° club. Now 10-15 years with all the technological advances in golf equipment; shafts - durability, length, strength, etc.; club heads - material used to make, manipulation of CoG, etc.; and the balls themselves; newer players, like myself, will, hopefully, learn everything you learned in regards to swinging a PW except our PW will be more strongly lofted at 42.5°.

No way would I expect someone who learned how to swing a club around 42.5°, and has an ingrained expectation of the behavior of said club, to pick it up and make it behave as they expect their respective 48-50° club to behave unless a lot of time is put in on the practice tee to adjust to the new loft. I see this as very similar to the old football adage, "today's players are bigger and stronger." Troy Polamalu doesn't hit any harder or tackle any better Ronnie Lott and Brian Urlacker doesn't hit any harder or tackle any better than Dick Butkus relative the the competition of their respective eras. The "...bigger and stronger..." refers to the speed at which the newer players hit, tackle and especially cover (speed to cover a greater distance). They are all great players. The newer one's just cover distance faster relative to competition. Your 48-50° behaves how you expect a PW to behave and my 42.5° behaves as a PW for me.

Said another way, if we would swap clubs and there were no club names on the soles (just loft listed), for a shot you felt requires a PW you would select the club from my bag closest to 48-50° because that's the degree club you learned to hit as a PW. I on the other hand would select from your bag the club lofted closest to 42.5° because that's the club I'm learning to hit as a PW. To our perception, each is a PW.

 

[pjcedog]

Why is it that none of these "traditionalists" ever show up for outings or ever play golf with other THP'ers? Me thinks it has something to do with being a talker on the interwebs and less of a golfer. It's easy to fight the fight or make an argument on your side of the fence when you know that you'll never actually have to show up and hit golf balls in front of a bunch of strong lofted wedge freaks like many of us seem to be.

I think this is what handicaps are supposed to be for, right?

 

[TC]

I was more or less messing around. Quite frankly, I don't care what loft is what or what clubs you or anyone else on here has in their golf bag. You know want to know why? Because it's their golf bag. We all work hard, make money and can spend it on whatever we want to enjoy on the golf course. I find this debate pointless. Things are what they are.

 

[skywalker]

I carry a stock Ping G5 pitching wedge 46*. The rest of my wedges are Ping Tour W 50*, Cleveland CG14 54* and Cleveland CG14 58*. I feel that the stock pitching wedge is perfect for full swings from 110-120 yards and some longer chips around the green and the rest of my wedges give me versatility closer to the hole.
I really like my CG14's although I wish my 58 was lower bounce around 8 or so.

 

[Lukey719]

Now that I think about it... Why don't more companies offer sets of irons with their aftermarket wedges?
I feel like they could have a slight upcharge and many people would go for better wedges.
Would you pay an upcharge for a say a Vokey with a set of Titleist irons (or whichever irons/wedges you chose)?

 

[MikeF]

Now that I think about it... Why don't more companies offer sets of irons with their aftermarket wedges?
I feel like they could have a slight upcharge and many people would go for better wedges.
Would you pay an upcharge for a say a Vokey with a set of Titleist irons (or whichever irons/wedges you chose)?

Probably not as I like to chose what Wedges I play anyway. I wouldn't want to be forced into playing a certain brand of wedge just because I was using their irons.

I play Vokey wedges at the moment anyway

 

[tgunn13]

It depends on what the lofts are in your irons.

Agreed. The AP1 PW is 45*, so I have filled out my set with a 50*, 56* & 60*.

 

[Lukey719]

Agreed. The AP1 PW is 45*, so I have filled out my set with a 50*, 56* & 60*.

I would assume the club makers would space out the lofts accordingly if they were to do this.

 

[Franklin51]

To bring this back up but how many use the stock gap? I am really debating it as my PW is 45 and my 50 degree 588 is a little scary to me

 

[Mr. Satchmo]

I was using a stock gap and I loved it, until I tried the xFTs, then I bought the 52 xFT and I haven't found a need for my burner AW.

As far as the PW goes, I use the set PW because I was always told that the PW should be essentially a 10 iron and have the same shaft as the irons. I like using it that way and relying on my 52 and 56 for my short approach/pitch shots.

 

[Franklin51]

see my gap is a 50 Cleveland and while I like it I just dont seem to get the distance I want. My PW is stock.

 

[Mr. Satchmo]

see my gap is a 50 Cleveland and while I like it I just dont seem to get the distance I want. My PW is stock.

do you have the R11 AW still? You should try them out together, maybe you'll get more forgiveness.

 

[Franklin51]

No I just ordered the 4-PW cause I had my mind made up I wanted a 50 Cleveland. It may just be me and a mental thing I need to work out.

 

[mikedean441]

No I just ordered the 4-PW cause I had my mind made up I wanted a 50 Cleveland. It may just be me and a mental thing I need to work out.

If u do let me know, I might be better just forcing it out of my bag

 

[Thechosen1]

do you have the R11 AW still? You should try them out together, maybe you'll get more forgiveness.

I have both a R11 AW and PW. Love both of them. I had the same thing when I had the '09 Burners so I guess I just stayed with the same thing when switching to the R11s. I like the forgiveness on both wedges.