The Official 2011 NFL Draft Thread

[JB]

Strongly disagree with that. We were taught that very early in every sport I played. You can't take a guys spot away because he gets injured. If once he's healthy and you've giving him his starting spot back and he is underperforming then you bench him, but only then.


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Let me ask you this. Clearly hypothetical.

You have a very average and aging QB on a pretty bad team and he goes down with a minor injury. You just drafted a QB with your 1st round pick and he comes in to spell him after he gets nicked up. The rookie takes over and comes to form and brings the team back to win. Plays exactly like the reasons you spent the 1st round pick on him.

You believe that he goes back to the bench? Sorry, strongly disagree.

 

[Fairway2Green]

Let me ask you this. Clearly hypothetical.

You have a very average and aging QB on a pretty bad team and he goes down with a minor injury. You just drafted a QB with your 1st round pick and he comes in to spell him after he gets nicked up. The rookie takes over and comes to form and brings the team back to win. Plays exactly like the reasons you spent the 1st round pick on him.

You believe that he goes back to the bench? Sorry, strongly disagree.

In that situation I don't mind it all, because the guy already knows his time is almost over and usually when they draft a QB in the first round it's an own competition for the job anyways.


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[blugold]

In that situation I don't mind it all, because the guy already knows his time is almost over and usually when they draft a QB in the first round it's an own competition for the job anyways.


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So you thought that Kyle Kolb got robbed? He was clueless against the Packers and progressively clueless whenever got into a game.

 

[Fairway2Green]

Of course they think that. They dpn't want to get hurt and lose their job.

Big part of having a successful professional organization is having happy players though.


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[JB]

Strongly disagree with that. We were taught that very early in every sport I played. You can't take a guys spot away because he gets injured. If once he's healthy and you've giving him his starting spot back and he is underperforming then you bench him, but only then.


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In that situation I don't mind it all, because the guy already knows his time is almost over and usually when they draft a QB in the first round it's an own competition for the job anyways.


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Then I guess that bolded part there from your first post is not really true. There are NO hard and fast rules when it comes to player decisions. Internal positions such as coaching depend on certain things and a players feelings are not going to get someone a new contract on the inside.

 

[JB]

So you thought that Kyle Kolb got robbed? He was clueless against the Packers and progressively clueless whenever got into a game.

There are countless examples of how it was the right move.

Big part of having a successful professional organization is having happy players though.


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That is debatable depending on who you ask. Ask Bill Parcells that. Or the Pats now.

This is a tired "rule" that was created by the media to please fans and aging players.

 

[blugold]

Big part of having a successful professional organization is having happy players though.

ha. I cannot express how wrong I think this is. Player happiness means nothing if the team isn't winning. It is possible to have a championship team that is made up of angry _ssholes who all hate eachother.

 

[Fairway2Green]

Then I guess that bolded part there from your first post is not really true. There are NO hard and fast rules when it comes to player decisions. Internal positions such as coaching depend on certain things and a players feelings are not going to get someone a new contract on the inside.

Your hypothetical though is designed to have me answer that way. It's not injury that caused him to lose his spot. It's the fact he was already average and the team spent a first rounder on a QB. There aren't many hard and fast rules to anything if you take the time to concoct a hypothetical to defy the rule. If the players on the team and coaching staff already know a guy is challenging for a position from someone who's old or underperforming then they want mind it, but he's still going to get his chance to earn it back in practice.


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[JB]

So you thought that Kyle Kolb got robbed? He was clueless against the Packers and progressively clueless whenever got into a game.

Your hypothetical though is designed to have me answer that way. It's not injury that caused him to lose his spot. It's the fact he was already average and the team spent a first rounder on a QB. There aren't many hard and fast rules to anything if you take the time to concoct a hypothetical to defy the rule. If the players on the team and coaching staff already know a guy is challenging for a position from someone who's old or underperforming then they want mind it, but he's still going to get his chance to earn it back in practice.


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Really, because I think my hypothetical described the Pats situation that year except the Brady being a first rounder pretty well. Everybody in the league new Bledsoe was done there, including Drew.

How about Kolb? How about Warner? Heck, it happened to Kurt 3 times actually. Bulger, Eli, Leinart.

 

[Fairway2Green]

So you thought that Kyle Kolb got robbed? He was clueless against the Packers and progressively clueless whenever got into a game.

He was already losing that job by performing horribly and how often does the situation of having someone like Vick as a backup happen? They still kept considering giving him his starting job back when Vick was killing it.


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[blugold]

Your hypothetical though is designed to have me answer that way. It's not injury that caused him to lose his spot. It's the fact he was already average and the team spent a first rounder on a QB. There aren't many hard and fast rules to anything if you take the time to concoct a hypothetical to defy the rule. If the players on the team and coaching staff already know a guy is challenging for a position from someone who's old or underperforming then they want mind it, but he's still going to get his chance to earn it back in practice.


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Again, do you think that Kevon Kolb got screwed last season.

 

[Fairway2Green]

That is debatable depending on who you ask. Ask Bill Parcells that. Or the Pats now.

This is a tired "rule" that was created by the media to please fans and aging players.

Players understand this though and as long as they win they'll put up with it. But, why were both of those coaches so quick to unload guys that were problems in the locker room?


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[JB]

He was already losing that job by performing horribly and how often does the situation of having someone like Vick as a backup happen? They still kept considering giving him his starting job back when Vick was killing it.

Huh? From Wiki

In the Eagles' season-opener against the Green Bay Packers, Kolb was tackled by Packers linebaker Clay Matthews, and sustained a concussion. For precautionary measures, Kolb was withdrawn from the game.[43] After passing a series of tests, he was nonetheless withheld for the game against the Detroit Lions.[44] On September 21, backup quarterback Michael Vick was named the starting quarterback over Kolb for the rest of the season following Vick's win over the Lions.

 

[JB]

Players understand this though and as long as they win they'll put up with it. But, why were both of those coaches so quick to unload guys that were problems in the locker room?

What in the world does that have to do with it? Problem guys are unloaded by lots of teams. That certainly has little to do with the injury losing starting job debate and nothing to do with high level coaches that apparently dont believe in that unwritten "rule".

 

[Fairway2Green]

Really, because I think my hypothetical described the Pats situation that year except the Brady being a first rounder pretty well. Everybody in the league new Bledsoe was done there, including Drew.

How about Kolb? How about Warner? Heck, it happened to Kurt 3 times actually. Bulger, Eli, Leinart.

Exactly. Everyone knew Drew was done. I don't mind they replaced him. It seems those organizations would've been better off allowing Kurt to have his job back though, no?

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[Fairway2Green]

Huh? From Wiki

In the Eagles' season-opener against the Green Bay Packers, Kolb was tackled by Packers linebaker Clay Matthews, and sustained a concussion. For precautionary measures, Kolb was withdrawn from the game.[43] After passing a series of tests, he was nonetheless withheld for the game against the Detroit Lions.[44] On September 21, backup quarterback Michael Vick was named the starting quarterback over Kolb for the rest of the season following Vick's win over the Lions.

Was that the only game Kevin Kolb every played in? Nope.

 

[JB]

Strongly disagree with that. We were taught that very early in every sport I played. You can't take a guys spot away because he gets injured. If once he's healthy and you've giving him his starting spot back and he is underperforming then you bench him, but only then.


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I literally had this conversation Saturday night with two NFL players and multiple former D1 college football players and everyone agreed you don't lose your spot do to injury. If you underperform when you get back then you lose it


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Exactly. Everyone knew Drew was done. I don't mind they replaced him. It seems those organizations would've been better off allowing Kurt to have his job back though, no?

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No offense, but either I am blind or you are contradicting yourself. This all was spurred from the Bledsoe getting benched for Brady thoughts. You said it should NEVER happen. What you said is he ALWAYS gets his job back and then IF he underperforms, you bench him.

As for whether or not Kurt should have gotten his job back is irrelevant. He lost his job to injury on 3 occasions despite the media and fans saying "it should never happen". The teams feel differently and the players all know it going in. Talent and wins keep coaches in place.

 

[JB]

Was that the only game Kevin Kolb every played in? Nope.

What? He was named the starter. Got hurt in the 1st game. Vick came in and lit it up. Vick was named the starter.

 

[Fairway2Green]

What in the world does that have to do with it? Problem guys are unloaded by lots of teams. That certainly has little to do with the injury losing starting job debate and nothing to do with high level coaches that apparently dont believe in that unwritten "rule".

You were saying having happy players doesn't matter. Coaches unload these guys because they become a cancer in the locker room. But, if you believe a team that dislikes their head coach and are not happy with what's going on performs better than a team that is happy with their situation and respects their coach, agree to disagree.

 

[Fairway2Green]

No offense, but either I am blind or you are contradicting yourself. This all was spurred from the Bledsoe getting benched for Brady thoughts. You said it should NEVER happen. What you said is he ALWAYS gets his job back and then IF he underperforms, you bench him.

As for whether or not Kurt should have gotten his job back is irrelevant. He lost his job to injury on 3 occasions despite the media and fans saying "it should never happen". The teams feel differently and the players all know it going in. Talent and wins keep coaches in place.

Ok, my saying it should never happen was taking far to literally. My fault really. I didn't mean to state as a definitive thing since I feel there are exceptions to most rules. Honestly, I wasn't referring to the Bledsoe situation, because I really didn't mind that at all.

 

[TC]

Anyway, I think the Panthers select Dareus with the first pick. It just makes the most sense.

 

[JB]

Anyway, I think the Panthers select Dareus with the first pick. It just makes the most sense.

Enough with bad memories and flip flops. I wish you were right TC, but I dont think you are here. You hearing otherwise there locally?

 

[Fairway2Green]

What? He was named the starter. Got hurt in the 1st game. Vick came in and lit it up. Vick was named the starter.

I really just misstated my feeling on it, because this is another exception I have no problem with. I would assume most already thought Vick would get a chance at that spot and once he got hurt Vick really lit it up. He then got another four games to prove himself and one average game, two very good games, and a bad game. They wanted Vick in there the whole time though. I apologize for coming off as saying it's a definitive rule, didn't mean that. There are always exceptions to rules.

 

[TC]

Enough with bad memories and flip flops. I wish you were right TC, but I dont think you are here. You hearing otherwise there locally?

I had a meeting with a guy today who is a season ticket holder and former college football player (he played at UNC and says he knows quite a few of the current players at Carolina, but take that for what it's worth) and he seems adamant about the pick. He had me sold in the end and I was there trying to sell him stuff. Funny how that works out.

 

[Chunkylover77]

Anyway, I think the Panthers select Dareus with the first pick. It just makes the most sense.

Drink at the Ibar says they pick Newton. OEM owes me 2 already