re-centering

[Carolina Golfer]

Has anyone heard of re-centering on the downswing? Is this a new thing? Makes sense, it delays the hands/arms/shoulders on the downswing.

At the 7 minute mark, the AMG guys talk about re-centering.



They talk about a shift, turn/re-centering on the BS. Seems like a lot to do.

 

[Carolina Golfer]

A shift, turn & re-center, shift and turn, may sound easy at first. But, I found it impossible to do. I know they said, it will take a while to learn it. But, it seems too much for me, yet these guys sound very convincing.

 

[MarMill]

I have watched that video before. I am not sure if it just happens due to how you rotate back vs consciously trying to do something.

 

[JonMA1]

A shift, turn & re-center, shift and turn, may sound easy at first. But, I found it impossible to do. I know they said, it will take a while to learn it. But, it seems too much for me, yet these guys sound very convincing.

I don't disagree with how these guys approach improvement for amateurs. I've watched them before and I think they could help a lot of players. But I feel this particular move is aimed at better players.

It seems to me that one of the biggest pitfalls instructors have is assuming everyone can accomplish something if they practice a certain way. I've chased this sort of thing for too many years, worked slow at it as they described, stayed committed to the change for multiple seasons, taken video, etc., and all it's gotten me is the frustration of failing to accomplish the move. If I can't do something correctly at half speed on the range, I have zero chance of pulling it off during a full swing on the course.

Trying to emulate the pros is a bad idea for me. It's interesting to discuss and read about, but I'm so far away from having even an average player's swing that it's not even worth discussing. As they pointed out in the video, most of us probably have at least one big issue that is hurting us more than any other (they call it the queen bee in the video). After ten years of this, I'm still not sure what mine is - though I suspect it exists in my hips and lower body. Whatever the issue is, it's probably not as subtle as what they're describing. I don't need to see what the pros are doing, I need to minimize that one big issue before tackling the next.

 

[Lane]

Yes Sir- and if you continue thinking it is in your ,” hips and lower body ,” you will keep on getting the same frustrations for the next ten years off your life !

 

[JonMA1]

Edit: my post was off topic so I deleted it.

 

[WILDTHING]

There is a whole thread about recentering here:

Shifting the turned hips targetward from p3.9 to p4 | Newton Golf Institute (proboards.com)

Will take some reading to understand it all.

 

[BroD]

Not a natural thing for my body to do... tried it,, ahh,, oohhh back ache.

 

[razaar]

A shift, turn & re-center, shift and turn, may sound easy at first. But, I found it impossible to do. I know they said, it will take a while to learn it. But, it seems too much for me, yet these guys sound very convincing.

I don't think anybody would get what this pair are trying to say. This is the result of collecting data from a k-vest and then interpreting that data into a golf swing. The data crucial to a golf swing is impossible to collect with a K-vest because that data occurs inside the body. I can't see anybody willing to having metal probes etc inserted into their pelvis, spine, neck and shoulders etc to collect swing data.

 

[RealPretendPsychic]

There is a whole thread about recentering here:

Shifting the turned hips targetward from p3.9 to p4 | Newton Golf Institute (proboards.com)

Will take some reading to understand it all.

Any chance you could put a summary here in the golf forum we are all using and enjoying?

 

[Hitsnmisses]

Iam getting a nervous sensation ……. GH the redux

 

[OldandStiff]

I don't think anybody would get what this pair are trying to say. This is the result of collecting data from a k-vest and then interpreting that data into a golf swing. The data crucial to a golf swing is impossible to collect with a K-vest because that data occurs inside the body. I can't see anybody willing to having metal probes etc inserted into their pelvis, spine, neck and shoulders etc to collect swing data.

I don't really get how you wouldn't get what they're trying to say. I didn't watch all of it. Took the advice to start at the 7:00 mark, but it's all pretty clearly illustrated.

I don't know how easy it would be for a lot of golfers to use it as a point of focus/thought to their benefit, but I'm sure it could click for some as a visual example.

I know that I am already shifting back towards the target at that point in my back swing, because it's pretty easy to see in video. I feel like unless you're actually shifting a good bit off the ball and not getting back, without a bumper placed to indicate and stop a hip slide it would be a tough swing thought to drill without potentially creating some drift/slide you wouldn't want for a lot of players. It's an interesting choice to make that long of a video on.

Feels to me like unless you're pretty elite and working on the little things, it's something you might want to let happen on its own as a result of work elsewhere in the swing/sequence. :confused2:

 

[razaar]

I don't really get how you wouldn't get what they're trying to say. I didn't watch all of it. Took the advice to start at the 7:00 mark, but it's all pretty clearly illustrated.

I don't know how easy it would be for a lot of golfers to use it as a point of focus/thought to their benefit, but I'm sure it could click for some as a visual example.

I know that I am already shifting back towards the target at that point in my back swing, because it's pretty easy to see in video. I feel like unless you're actually shifting a good bit off the ball and not getting back, without a bumper placed to indicate and stop a hip slide it would be a tough swing thought to drill without potentially creating some drift/slide you wouldn't want for a lot of players. It's an interesting choice to make that long of a video on.

Feels to me like unless you're pretty elite and working on the little things, it's something you might want to let happen on its own as a result of work elsewhere in the swing/sequence. :confused2:

You weren't the model with the K-vest by chance?.

 

[Lane]

You weren't the model with the K-vest by chance?.

Recentering - now that a new gimmick that should make somebody some money ! Their could be “ re-centering “ swing experts in the future!

 

[JonMA1]

Feels to me like unless you're pretty elite and working on the little things, it's something you might want to let happen on its own as a result of work elsewhere in the swing/sequence

Exactly right in my case. I have to fight a hip slide on the backswing so I focus on a centered BS hip turn and hope for a little weight forward on the DS. That's been a monumental challenge so far.

Once again, trying to emulate a tour pro's swing is so far beyond where I'm at.

 

[razaar]

I don't really get how you wouldn't get what they're trying to say. I didn't watch all of it. Took the advice to start at the 7:00 mark, but it's all pretty clearly illustrated.

I don't know how easy it would be for a lot of golfers to use it as a point of focus/thought to their benefit, but I'm sure it could click for some as a visual example.

I know that I am already shifting back towards the target at that point in my back swing, because it's pretty easy to see in video. I feel like unless you're actually shifting a good bit off the ball and not getting back, without a bumper placed to indicate and stop a hip slide it would be a tough swing thought to drill without potentially creating some drift/slide you wouldn't want for a lot of players. It's an interesting choice to make that long of a video on.

Feels to me like unless you're pretty elite and working on the little things, it's something you might want to let happen on its own as a result of work elsewhere in the swing/sequence. :confused2:

The concept I follow on centring isn't about a vertical line up the middle of the body but a line extending from the front foot to the head (address position). It is easier to rotate with speed on this inclined line than it is on a vertical line. There are many reasons for this - the curvature of the spine; the ribcage attached to the spine, the forward flex of the spine in the address position and how the spinal muscles rotate the spine.
Kelvin Miyahira created this concept and named it the Chi line.

 

[WILDTHING]

Any chance you could put a summary here in the golf forum we are all using and enjoying?

All the images, photos and videos of golfers who don't actively re-centre (ie. lateral shift of their body targetwards as they reach the top of their backswing) is on that website.

Some golfers do re-centre while others don't .


Here is a graph by Phil Cheetham from the TPI database (unsure if its an average representation of all the golfers). We would be looking at 'Pelvic Sway' which is the red line in the top graph.

The top half of the graph would represent sway towards the target from address position , while below half is sway away from target from address position.

If the golfers pelvis was moving targetwards (ie. towards target past address position) just before the top of backswing was reached , the red line would be crossing the vertical green 'Top' line above the zero the position.

Actually , this does show a shift in the targetwards direction just before the top of the backswing is reached. The golfer swayed back to just less than -2.5 inches and then swayed towards his address position by the time he reached the top of his backswing. Unfortunately , I haven't got a TPI graph showing sway of his upper torso centre to check whether that does the same as the pelvis.







Remember that if a golfer did the 'Hogan Power Move' and it was recorded on TPI 3D system , it would still measure the pelvis as swaying (although it was just rotating and then re-rotating around a pressure loaded right hip joint).

 

[WILDTHING]

Here are some players who do not sway (ie. actively shift their whole torso targetwards before they reach the top of their backswing).

"Many pro golfers prefer to use use a rightwards-centralised backswing action where the upper swing center is well to the right of the lower swing center at top of backswing".




"Note that her pelvis moves targetwards between between image 1 and image 2 (ie. top of backswing) and that her left knee is already moving targetwards - reflecting the start of her counterclockwise pelvic motion. However, note that her upper swing center is still well to the right of her lower swing center because she uses a rightwards-centralised backswing action. Golfers, like Mickey Wright, who use a rightwards-centralised backswing action do not have problem hitting fat shots!"

Here are other golfers who used a rightwards-centralised backswing (Jamie Sadlowski, Tim Burke and Cameron Champ).



Here is Johnny Miller



He doesn't shift his pelvis until after the top of his backswing (image 2 is top ) and you can clearly see he's shifted by image 3. Doesn't look as if his upper body swing centre has shifted targetwards.



Jack Nicklaus (when young) isn't shifting his pelvis or his upper body targetwards before reaching the top of his backswing.

 

[Arlo]

Here are some players who do not sway (ie. actively shift their whole torso targetwards before they reach the top of their backswing).

"Many pro golfers prefer to use use a rightwards-centralised backswing action where the upper swing center is well to the right of the lower swing center at top of backswing".

View attachment 9044499


"Note that her pelvis moves targetwards between between image 1 and image 2 (ie. top of backswing) and that her left knee is already moving targetwards - reflecting the start of her counterclockwise pelvic motion. However, note that her upper swing center is still well to the right of her lower swing center because she uses a rightwards-centralised backswing action. Golfers, like Mickey Wright, who use a rightwards-centralised backswing action do not have problem hitting fat shots!"

Here are other golfers who used a rightwards-centralised backswing (Jamie Sadlowski, Tim Burke and Cameron Champ).

View attachment 9044501

Here is Johnny Miller

View attachment 9044504

He doesn't shift his pelvis until after the top of his backswing (image 2 is top ) and you can clearly see he's shifted by image 3. Doesn't look as if his upper body swing centre has shifted targetwards.

View attachment 9044508

Jack Nicklaus (when young) isn't shifting his pelvis or his upper body targetwards before reaching the top of his backswing.

Jack Nicklaus points his spine behind his left heel in 1, 2 and 3. From there it is simply a drop into the slot, and turn to bring the club path from inside to the inside quadrant of the ball, not the back of the ball.


No tilting or twisting of the spine