Rules question thread

[Oregon Golfer]

My question is about rule 25-c and specifically during match play. If you hit your ball into an abnormal ground condition does your opponent have to also concur about being "known or virtually certain that that the ball is in the abnormal ground condition"? I would think the answer is no because what if your opponent isn't carefully watching each of your shots?


• c. Ball in Abnormal Ground Condition Not Found
It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward an abnormal ground condition is in such a condition. In order to apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the abnormal ground condition. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.


If it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in an abnormal ground condition, the player may take relief under this Rule. If he elects to do so, the spot where the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the abnormal ground condition must be determined and, for the purpose of applying this Rule, the ball is deemed to lie at this spot and the player must proceed as follows:


(i) Through the Green: If the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the abnormal ground condition at a spot through the green, the player may substitute another ball, without penalty, and take relief as prescribed in Rule 25-1b(i).


(ii) In a Bunker: If the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the abnormal ground condition at a spot in a bunker, the player may substitute another ball, without penalty, and take relief as prescribed in Rule 25-1b(ii).


(iii) In a Water Hazard (including a Lateral Water Hazard): If the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the abnormal ground condition at a spot in a water hazard, the player is not entitled to relief without penalty. The player must proceed under Rule 26-1.


(iv) On the Putting Green: If the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the abnormal ground condition at a spot on the putting green, the player may substitute another ball, without penalty, and take relief as prescribed in Rule 25-1b(iii).

 

[Smallville]

You have to tell someone what you are doing. And in Match Play, if your opponent is not watching your shots, he's doing himself a disservice. Knowing if your opponent is in trouble or not can have a bearing on what you might try with your next shot. Especially if you are hitting first. Wouldn't you want to know that they are in trouble before you decide whether to go for it or play it safe?

And if your opponent doesn't agree that you are in an abnormal ground condition, then you would need to get an official over to decide.

 

[Oregon Golfer]

You have to tell someone what you are doing. And in Match Play, if your opponent is watching your shots, he's doing himself a disservice. Knowing if your opponent is in trouble or not can have a bearing on what you might try with your next shot. Especially if you are hitting first. Wouldn't you want to know that they are in trouble before you decide whether to go for it or play it safe?

And if your opponent doesn't agree that you are in an abnormal ground condition, then you would need to get an official over to decide.

I absolutely agree about watching your opponents shot so that you are in a better position to play your next shot accordingly. If regards to the question, it just seems way too easy for an opponent to say "I didn't see your shot so I can't be virtually certain where it went". Unfortunately "officials" aren't often available in a lot of club amateur events. I'm thinking it is just up to the player who hit the shot in question because of the wording in the 2nd paragraph, "If it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in an abnormal ground condition, the player may take relief under this Rule."

 

[wadesworld]

Here's my thoughts:

In the absence of knowledge from another party, it would be up to the player to decide if they know or are virtually certain. But, keep in mind that knowing or being virtually certain is a pretty high standard of proof. Telling the committee "you saw the ball heading right for that area" may not be enough. If they decide you didn't have sufficient evidence to know or be virtually certain, you could be DQ'd for turning in an incorrect score, so discuss it before signing your card. If you're truly not certain, you'd be better off taking the more severe penalty.

Knowledge from another party could be from your opponent, another player on the course or a spectator. If someone says "I'm certain the ball is not in there," then you'd be smart to take that as fact. Even in the case of your opponent, who might benefit, if they steadfastly say they're certain, here again you'd be wise to consider them correct. If you choose a ruling in your favor against another party who is certain or virtually certain, you would also run the risk of a serious breach and possible DQ. If you're adamant however that they're wrong, then you'd want to consult a rules official or play a second ball under the rules and let the committee decide.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Smallville]

. . . If you're adamant however that they're wrong, then you'd want to consult a rules official or play a second ball under the rules and let the committee decide.

I looked up in the rules, and I don't think you can play a second ball in match play. In match play you need to know where you stand, not where you might stand.

 

[wadesworld]

I looked up in the rules, and I don't think you can play a second ball in match play. In match play you need to know where you stand, not where you might stand.

Doh, good catch. I forgot it did not apply to match play and duh, it makes perfect sense that it would not be practical for match play.