Thinning and Chili-Dipping

[gr8dryv]

I have added a couple of shots to the bag this year and it's frustrating the hell out of me. Perfectly placed drives are being met with bladed or fat wedge shots. I'm hitting the ball mid-equator or hitting inches behind the ball. What drills or fixes do I need to focus on??

@JB, an idea of a 2022 contest, a trip to a short-game or overall game-improvement camp

 

[BostonSal]

When wedge woes of that kind beset me, it's almost always due to trying a new wedge with too much bounce.
Everybody says that bounce is your friend, If it's more than 8º, however, it's my mortal enemy.

 

[DataDude]

First check I do when that happens is how wristy am I getting? Am I trying to generate the power with my hands or with my shoulders? Too much hand action leads to inconsistent contact.

 

[McLovin]

ball position. make sure it's pretty much in line with your belly button.

 

[hadi05]

First check I do when that happens is how wristy am I getting? Am I trying to generate the power with my hands or with my shoulders? Too much hand action leads to inconsistent contact.

100%

 

[DataDude]

ball position. make sure it's pretty much in line with your belly button.

Yep, this is next. I generally check this in my practice swing. Take a swipe or 2 and see where the club is grounding out compared to my feet and then setup to the ball accordingly.

 

[Chef23]

ball position. make sure it's pretty much in line with your belly button.

Ball position and alignment are the first places to start with. If you are getting inconsistent contact it is generally because you aren't setup correctly. If ball position is off you need to move your body to get the bottom of the swing in the right place which can lead to both thins and chunks.

 

[MGoBlue]

1. Proper setup
2. your "center" moving laterally through the swing
3. Don't listen to me because I'm AWFUL at this.

 

[Slowmo]

I also find that when I do one of those things in my short game it's generally because I decelerate through the shot. I know not to try to slow down, but for some reason I can't keep myself from doing it sometimes. Especially if I haven't had any time to work on my short game lately.

 

[Tywithay]

For myself, it almost 100% comes down to ball position at impact. It's pretty easy to line up over the ball the same way. If you're swaying, leaning more forward, or backward, etc., that can be more difficult to discern and create a whole host of issues as your body subconsciously adjusts.

 

[leftshot]

I have added a couple of shots to the bag this year and it's frustrating the hell out of me. Perfectly placed drives are being met with bladed or fat wedge shots. I'm hitting the ball mid-equator or hitting inches behind the ball. What drills or fixes do I need to focus on??

@JB, an idea of a 2022 contest, a trip to a short-game or overall game-improvement camp

So a little self diagnosis is in order. Three categories of possibilities: Swing plane, weight shift, or posture issues. Each are common faults.

With swing plane we are talking about a too flat a plane or inside/out downswing that bottoms out before and inside the ball. If it's close to the ball this results in a fat shot. If it's further back the clubhead will at times skip off the ground causing a weak thin shot or topping the ball.

If you don't get the weight shifted to the front foot consistently, this will also cause the clubhead to bottom out behind the ball, but the divot is usually NOT inside the ball as it is with a swing plane issue. It tends to bottom out behind the ball or even outside/in if combined with an OTT downswing.

Posture issues are where you don't keep your spine angle consistent or dip or rise during the downswing and prior to impact.

You tell me, which of these you think is the culprit? Or post a video of your swing. Once we know which category of swing fault we're dealing with we can dive further into exactly what is happening with your swing and how to fix it.

 

[McLovin]

Ball position and alignment are the first places to start with. If you are getting inconsistent contact it is generally because you aren't setup correctly. If ball position is off you need to move your body to get the bottom of the swing in the right place which can lead to both thins and chunks.

i agree alignment is huge, too. my thought was if he's having trouble finding the bottom of his arc, to start with ball position. for me, i see lateral misses on the face when my alignment is off, and vertical misses when my ball position is off.

 

[Chef23]

i agree alignment is huge, too. my thought was if he's having trouble finding the bottom of his arc, to start with ball position. for me, i see lateral misses on the face when my alignment is off, and vertical misses when my ball position is off.

I think you do them together. Why fix one without the other. Setup is static and should be relatively easy to fix. Get them both right.

 

[TxAggie2018]

Is this chipping issue something new after you've adjusted your game or something that's been problematic for a while?

FWIW, I have been using the "use the bounce" chipping method with some good success. Ball middle of your stance, weight on left leg, and hit about an inch or half-inch fat behind the ball, like a bunker shot.

The theory is that weight forward keeps the leading edge down so you can't blade or thin it, and landing with the bounce first means you can't fat it. Taken to extremes of forward or back ball positions, the club will eventually do both, but in between is a nice Goldilocks zone of chipping forgiveness.

 

[J4U]

Ball position is correct? Then possibly too stiff, relax, let the ball get in the way and finish the swing. I never listen to myself though and do the exact same thing.

 

[gr8dryv]

Is this chipping issue something new after you've adjusted your game or something that's been problematic for a while?

FWIW, I have been using the "use the bounce" chipping method with some good success. Ball middle of your stance, weight on left leg, and hit about an inch or half-inch fat behind the ball, like a bunker shot.

The theory is that weight forward keeps the leading edge down so you can't blade or thin it, and landing with the bounce first means you can't fat it. Taken to extremes of forward or back ball positions, the club will eventually do both, but in between is a nice Goldilocks zone of chipping forgiveness.

I should have been clearer... I'm talking full wedge shots vs close range chipping. The chipping game has sharpened because of all of my missed greens due to chunks and skulls

 

[WLG1952]

Thins, and Fats. I have these uninvited guests in my bag.

Thins/Tops; 1. raising one's head, which raises the shoulders, which raises the swing arc. 2. Swaying the wrong way which changes the bottom of the swing arc in relation to the ball. 3. Wrong ball position, which doesn't match the bottom of the swing arc. 4. Standing more erect than normal (see #1). 5. Wrong club for the lie. Too much bounce for the firmer lie. These are just the ones I deal with. There's probably more.

Fatties; 1. Wrong, or poor weight transfer. Weight stays on the rear leg. Changes bottom of normal swing arc to in back of ball.. (Reverse pivot?) 2. Throwing the club head at the ball from the top. Tends to dip the rear shoulder. 3. Poor start of backswing movement. Use a one piece take away. Start good, finish good. 4. Dipping one, or both knees. (See#1) 5. Poor AoA. Too steep. These are the fat shot issues I deal with from time, to time. There's probably more. Usually because of fatique, and/or laziness on my part.

For me, these two poor ball impacts are like a shank. If serious enough, I take some time off from the game. I won't fight them.

 

[Desmond]

When wedge woes of that kind beset me, it's almost always due to trying a new wedge with too much bounce.
Everybody says that bounce is your friend, If it's more than 8º, however, it's my mortal enemy.

I was using 12 of bounce on tight lies without issues. Not my best fit, but it was workable until I was fit and bought new wedges.

And to the OP...

I can't talk about anyone's issues other than my own, but typically problems occurred when one 1. was too quick in transition (just semi-pause and relax), 2. Used their arms too much and were too tight instead of relaxing and just going through the downswing; 3. feet too far apart and not open, their hands were too far forward at contact (shaft should be almost perpendicular to ground at impact on a stock shot), 4. Weight not on front foot the entire time and they had right side bend (no right side bend, upper body almost angled forward, and stand taller at impact). That's my recipe for success.

If you skank, then arms are getting away from the body - swing to the left, don't arch the wrists.

 

[WLG1952]

One thing I forgot to mention. I am sometimes guilty of using the same stance width for both longer, and shorter club.

A wider stance puts my sternum closer to the ground. This doesn't work well for me when using a wedge, or short iron. Don't know why. I just know with a narrower stance, I hit my shorter clubs better.

 

[GraniteRoost]

This isn't exactly full swing wedge advice, but I think it applies and this is still IMO one of the best short game videos out there.

Using your lower body and core to power the pitch helps with consistency. For me, a pitch is just a longer chip shot. They fundamentals of using the big muscles and keeping the club handle and your torso rotating at the same speed apply for both chipping, and longer pitch shots.

 

[Desmond]

This isn't exactly full swing wedge advice, but I think it applies and this is still IMO one of the best short game videos out there.

Using your lower body and core to power the pitch helps with consistency. For me, a pitch is just a longer chip shot. They fundamentals of using the big muscles and keeping the club handle and your torso rotating at the same speed apply for both chipping, and longer pitch shots.

THIS IS GOOD.

 

[leftshot]

Is this chipping issue something new after you've adjusted your game or something that's been problematic for a while?

FWIW, I have been using the "use the bounce" chipping method with some good success. Ball middle of your stance, weight on left leg, and hit about an inch or half-inch fat behind the ball, like a bunker shot.

The theory is that weight forward keeps the leading edge down so you can't blade or thin it, and landing with the bounce first means you can't fat it. Taken to extremes of forward or back ball positions, the club will eventually do both, but in between is a nice Goldilocks zone of chipping forgiveness.

Good observations on chipping, except that the opening post says nothing about chipping. He describes these as approach shots after "perfectly placed drives".

 

[Puttmaster]

Since you are thinning AND chili-dipping ...

More than likely you are losing your spine angle -- raising up and down (and/or swaying back and forth).

As an early instructor always preached at me, "Stay the same size!"

 

[Arlo]

I have added a couple of shots to the bag this year and it's frustrating the hell out of me. Perfectly placed drives are being met with bladed or fat wedge shots. I'm hitting the ball mid-equator or hitting inches behind the ball. What drills or fixes do I need to focus on??

@JB, an idea of a 2022 contest, a trip to a short-game or overall game-improvement camp

After a good drive and with only a wedge to the green, very easy to have high expectations and to try to consciously control the swing=recipe for failure.

The BS and then DS happen too quickly*(using same muscles in opposite manner) to be able to consciously control both BS and DS.
Choose one or the other for conscious control and let the other happen , trust by feel letting it happen as a reaction.
good luck

* in a full swing, we have time at top of BS for a conscious intention before DS begins. In short game there isnt time for a conscious intent before the through swing begins, so it has to be a reaction, preprogrammed.

 

[TxAggie2018]

Good observations on chipping, except that the opening post says nothing about chipping. He describes these as approach shots after "perfectly placed drives".

I came to the opposite conclusion when reading this thread.. if he's got a nice repeatable drive and didn't mention problems with irons, his full swing is probably all right.