Going to Graphite Shafts

I have been having elbow problems for the past few years. I recently purchased some new irons but the retailer gave the manufacturer the wrong specs and I received the wrong shafts in the irons. I was going to get shafts with Sensicore inserts but my doc and son's pro suggested I go graphite. I've been hesitant to do so, but used this opportunity to go ahead and get the irons with graphite shafts. I hope they work out...I've been playing steel shafts forEVER.

Check out Nippons then add the prosoft inserts..May be just what you need.Try this before you give up and play graphite

Thanks Big Lefty, but I've tried that as well. I'm not going to let lateral epicondylitis sideline me again.

I just turned 61 and have tennis elbow and bad shoulder and been thinking about the graphite also. I would like to avoid the extra $200 for the better graphite shafts and would like to keep the the consistency and feel of steel. I'm waiting to see if my pain goes away in this off season and try steel again with an insert. I am having pain in the off season from lifting and shoveling snow. I started more stretching and light lifting which seems to help. good luck.
PS I see you have the ap1. They have a nice mid weight 85 gram graphite

shaft.

weten2 said:

I just turned 61 and have tennis elbow and bad shoulder and been thinking about the graphite also. I would like to avoid the extra $200 for the better graphite shafts and would like to keep the the consistency and feel of steel. I'm waiting to see if my pain goes away in this off season and try steel again with an insert. I am having pain in the off season from lifting and shoveling snow. I started more stretching and light lifting which seems to help. good luck.
PS I see you have the ap1. They have a nice mid weight 85 gram graphite

shaft.

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I'll be 55 shortly. The Aerotech SteelFiber is a graphite shaft that does just what you are looking for. They are anywhere from 75 grams to 125 grams. However, they are pricey. The shafts I will be getting are 75 grams at standard length, mine are +0.75. Titleist is going to put a heavier head on to compensate for the weight of the shaft. I am also getting soft grips installed. If push comes to shove the next time I get the clubs re-gripped I will have the ProSoft inserts put into the shafts. The snow shoveling and roof raking didn't help me either.

Good luck to you too!

BigLeftyinAZ said:

Check out Nippons then add the prosoft inserts..May be just what you need.Try this before you give up and play graphite

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Give up & play graphite?????????
That's not even worth debating.

Sean;
How much per club do they charge over the standard steel or graphite?
With most OEM's you can have them ship the grips loose so you can add the insert and then grip.

Dynawriter;
Are you saying the graphite is much better for shock absorbtion than the steel with insert? When I tried graphite for two months it seemed like it helped. I just didn't like the big misses with the setup I had.
Some say the shaft type doesn't make much difference in reducing the soreness.

Have you check the GS95 true temper steel shafts, super lightweight steel with the feeling of graphite

I used graphite for a long time in my irons, then it got too whippy (Callaway R-flex) then I switched to stiff steel -- that worked great for 2 weeks then my wrists got total tendonitis. Now got a set with stiff graphite and couldn't be happier. Best of both worlds.

weten2 said:

Sean;
How much per club do they charge over the standard steel or graphite?
With most OEM's you can have them ship the grips loose so you can add the insert and then grip.

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If I need to do it I'll do it with my next grip change. The ProSoft inserts are only like $0.78 a piece. You need a tool to insert them, but that's only a few bucks.

Pumas said:

Have you check the GS95 true temper steel shafts, super lightweight steel with the feeling of graphite

Click to expand...

I did try the Nippon NS Pro 850's. I really liked the shaft, but same issue.

rafal said:

I used graphite for a long time in my irons, then it got too whippy (Callaway R-flex) then I switched to stiff steel -- that worked great for 2 weeks then my wrists got total tendonitis. Now got a set with stiff graphite and couldn't be happier. Best of both worlds.

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I'm glad it worked out for you. Hopefully the same for me.

Rafal
I'm glad to hear that. The used graphite clubs I was using was a regular in the fusions. It was light and whippy. Mayb the stiff or a better graphite shaft will make the difference.

Sean;
What I meant is how much is Titelist charging for the Aerotech shafts?

Let's not forget why graphite shafts were introduced to golf in the first place.

Graphite shafts allowed players with arthritis and other joint issues to be able to play the game without having to deal with the jarring effect of steel shafts. That was graphite's primary purpose.

It wasn't until the pros realized that graphite (being much lighter than steel) allowed for more clubhead speed (which in turn allowed for longer distances), that "technology" took over to try to create the perfect lightweight replacement for steel.

They've pretty much managed to do that for drivers and other woods, but the jury's still out when it comes to irons.



-JP

JPsuff said:

Let's not forget why graphite shafts were introduced to golf in the first place.

Graphite shafts allowed players with arthritis and other joint issues to be able to play the game without having to deal with the jarring effect of steel shafts. That was graphite's primary purpose.

It wasn't until the pros realized that graphite (being much lighter than steel) allowed for more clubhead speed (which in turn allowed for longer distances), that "technology" took over to try to create the perfect lightweight replacement for steel.

They've pretty much managed to do that for drivers and other woods, but the jury's still out when it comes to irons.

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Im curious where you heard that? The reason I ask is because in researching our shaft article for the Spring issue, we spoke to about 8 shaft experts. They all gave the same story about why graphite came to be and it was different than that.

They all spoke about swing speed being the primary reason, and only after that did they find out it helped with joint issues. Who knows really, but its nice that it does both things well.

weten2 said:

Sean;
What I meant is how much is Titelist charging for the Aerotech shafts?

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Sorry if my post was confusing. I was recommending that shaft as a possible alternative for that poster. I don't think they are available through Titleist. I'll be getting the Aldila VS Proto-T 75's. The Aerotech's are about $35 a shaft. They play a bit stiff to flex, and are lower launching than most graphite iron shafts. They are a great shaft, but just not suited to my game.

JPsuff said:

Let's not forget why graphite shafts were introduced to golf in the first place.

Graphite shafts allowed players with arthritis and other joint issues to be able to play the game without having to deal with the jarring effect of steel shafts. That was graphite's primary purpose.

It wasn't until the pros realized that graphite (being much lighter than steel) allowed for more clubhead speed (which in turn allowed for longer distances), that "technology" took over to try to create the perfect lightweight replacement for steel.

They've pretty much managed to do that for drivers and other woods, but the jury's still out when it comes to irons.

-JP

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Iron graphite technology has come a long way in recent years, e.g., Aura Blue's, SteelFibers, Protos, Studio Series, etc. I think many would say that the jury has returned and found many favorable graphite iron shaft offerings.

I have the sensicore shafts in a set I have and before using them I used to get pain in my elbows and shoulders.They have stopped those problems.If graphite works as well that would be great but I don't know personally if it does..

JB said:

Im curious where you heard that? The reason I ask is because in researching our shaft article for the Spring issue, we spoke to about 8 shaft experts. They all gave the same story about why graphite came to be and it was different than that.

They all spoke about swing speed being the primary reason, and only after that did they find out it helped with joint issues. Who knows really, but its nice that it does both things well.

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I can't cite any specific source. All I can tell you is that every article I've ever read about graphite shafts for as long as I can recall has always lead off with the "beneficial for people with bad joints or arthritis" angle and then perhaps later referred to lightweight, faster speeds, etc.

Don't forget, graphite was poorly regarded for a very long time before carbon fiber technology advanced to the level it's at today. When graphite first appeared way back in the late 70's / early 80's, it's primary drawback was its fragility when swung at a high speed. It worked OK for people with very slow swing speeds (seniors and those with joint issues) but graphite shafts had a reputation for snapping when swung very fast.

I remember most people resisting graphite and it was often referred to as an "Old Man's Shaft" until about the early 90's or so when it was apparent that technology had addressed the breakage problem and people realized that they weren't going to shatter if you swung them hard. Even so, it still took their regular appearance on the PGA Tour for people to realize that one didn't have to have an AARP card to use them and they finally began to be accepted as "real" golf club shafts.

I was experimenting with graphite way back in the early 90's and the first graphite shaft I ever bought was an Aldila HM-40 which was a decent shaft but a bit too "whippy overall (mainly in the tip section) even in an X-flex. I bounced between graphite and steel for a while afterward until about seven years ago (thereabouts) when I finally "crossed over" for good. So I'm no stranger to graphite, nor do I consider it a "new" technology. But I am sure of one thing: They were originally marketed as a "softer alternative" to steel and faster swing speeds had nothing to do with them back then.

Sean said:

Iron graphite technology has come a long way in recent years, e.g., Aura Blue's, SteelFibers, Protos, Studio Series, etc. I think many would say that the jury has returned and found many favorable graphite iron shaft offerings.

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I believe that graphite shaft technology - specifically carbon fiber technology - has reached a point where graphite is stronger than steel. But despite my belief in their durability, I still will not entertain the idea of using them in irons.

I don't fully "believe" enough in them to go that far.

I still don't think that a graphite shaft can be made for irons that will have the same stiffness and consistency of a steel shaft. I have come to believe in steel shafts for irons and I've been playing them for so long that I know every nuance and tendency and I'm definitely not inclined to "learn" new shafts from scratch.

Not only that, but with the way tour players glom onto technology to squeeze every last ounce of performance from their games, if graphite were THAT good, don't you think 80% or even 90% of the tour would be using them? There must be a reason why they don't and I think it's the same reason that I don't want to switch.

Mind you, this is all my personal take on this, but the fact that graphite for irons hasn't caught on in the pro golf world tells me that I'm probably not too far from wrong because if there's an advantage to it, it'll show up on tour in a heartbeat.


-JP

I think a tour player still receives more benefit from steel over graphite (except in drivers, fairway woods, and hybrids). However, I'm not a tour player and am looking for something that will allow me to play relatively pain free, without losing any performance. I had the chance to play with the irons/wedges and was not only pleased with their performance, but my elbows thanked me as well.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying one is better than the other in general. I am saying that there are some great graphite iron shafts out their now, and in my case they benefit me.

I currently play stiff graphite shafts (Rifle MT85) in my blades. This is my second set of clubs with graphite shafts, everything else having been stiff steel. I don't see any advantage in distance, I hit them just as far as the steel shafted irons.

I do see a difference in my golfer's elbow. It has disappeared. I suffered with it for several years when I played steel shafted irons. I'd say probably a third of the guys I play with have graphite in their irons. I think the stigma of graphite is a myth that has almost run its course.

Problem with graphite shafts in irons is that they are very expensive for the same quality vs. steel. If one wants to switch to graphite in irons that would require being comfortable to drop significant amount for 6-8 shafts. To me the health benefits are substantial, I feel I am buying myself years of pain-free playing with lighter and gentler shafts which perform just as well or better than steel. There's nothing whippy about my TourAD stiffs.

These last three posts all support the "health benefit" aspects of graphite shafts and by default, supports the argument that this was their primary purpose.

I've known many people who prefer graphite in their irons and for the same reasons stated in these posts. No one that I know ever claimed that they got more distance but all said that they felt better and were easier on their elbows.

I have no problem with any of that and I would never tell anyone not to use a graphite shaft in their irons. All I'm saying is that for me, I don't see the consistency and the control being better (or in many cases even just equal) to that of steel, so that's why I stay with steel.

As far as cost versus quality, that depends more on what someone is looking for in a shaft and what their own definition of "quality" may be. There are certainly some very expensive "designer" steel shafts out there that cost three or four times that of a typical steel shaft.

Does that make them better?

Who's to say?

Likewise there are graphite shafts that individually can easily cost more than the entire set of clubheads combined but again, are they better or just more expensive?

I think that from a strength perspective, even an inexpensive graphite shaft made today is easily as strong or in some cases, stronger than steel, so the notion that they're going to break is really more phobia than fact.

There is, however, a subtlety to steel shafts that as far as I'm concerned graphite has yet to equal and it's that "touch" that I prefer. When graphite shafts approach the low-torque characteristics of steel, they tend to be very boardy. Likewise, when they accurately mimic the varied and nuanced flexibility of steel, they then tend to be rather "twisty".

I've often thought that when various manufacturers advertise graphite shafts that somewhere in their ad copy they've always wanted to write: "Just like steel" or "Virtually the same as steel" because steel is the benchmark and one that, in my opinion, they haven't yet quite reached.


-JP