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Scotty Cameron - Imitation Does Not Always Equal Flattery

SuperStroke
Canadan said:
The big difference to me, is that - unless I am mistaken - TaylorMade is suggesting the white head is a performance enhancing design feature, whereas the playing card design is more cosmetic and irrelevant to a person who is actually putting the ball. That is the only variation for me.
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Dave Stockton has commented that the TM's color produces 0 glare and the white color aids in alignment.

As far as SC holiday design... It sure is a coincidence on the timing. Personally, as I have stated before, the SC's are not for me. I don't care for their feel. Love their looks but "looks" won't put it in the hole. Are they overpriced? Absolutely. Just like many football/baseball players, cars, houses, etc., etc...

Morally, I do not agree with SC about his tactics but his marketing has made him very successful. Not to stick up for him, but everyone in just about every profession, rips-off other designs and concepts. That what competion is all about. I DO NOT AGREE WITH IT, but that's the way it is.

The only way we can show our objection is to voice it out (like we are doing here) or just not buy the product.
 
as far as overpriced putters go....i think that's something each individual consumer has to decide. Nike's Method, Ping's Redwood Odyssey's Black Series are all in the same category for putters.....massed produced and above $250 retail. some people might think $50 is too much to pay for a putter...that's their choice.


i still don't see any hard evidence that SC ripped off NC? coinicidence maybe.....but without knowing the details from beginning to product launch, it's all just speculation. this is the internet though....i'll shut up now.


NC should sue. :banghead:
 
Actually the Method comes in at $250 and so does the Redwood according to MAP at this time. $50 less than others in the "premium" category if that is what they are called.

The topic as you alluded to is about SOME PEOPLES opinions that SC chose to go the route of taking from the NC Gambler line being launched. No, there is no clear proof in that, just like there is no proof that he didnt. Its clear you feel as though SC is in the right here, just as others feel as though he is in the wrong. The same way others felt as though he was CLEARLY copying the SeeMore red dot in his launch a couple of years ago. No coincidence there WHATSOEVER. Its a personal choice that people make and just as you voiced your opinions here, others can and should as well.
 
snicker.doodles said:
as far as overpriced putters go....i think that's something each individual consumer has to decide. Nike's Method, Ping's Redwood Odyssey's Black Series are all in the same category for putters.....massed produced and above $250 retail. some people might think $50 is too much to pay for a putter...that's their choice.


i still don't see any hard evidence that SC ripped off NC? coinicidence maybe.....but without knowing the details from beginning to product launch, it's all just speculation. this is the internet though....i'll shut up now.


NC should sue. :banghead:
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I don't think anyone here is offering proof. But, in many ways, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... its probably a duck.

NC was getting a ton of press about this amazing series of putters due to be released. While Dan mentioned he thinks the best putter will win out, I disagree. The best marketing of the best putter will win out. There are many people who will buy the SC simply because it is a SC. There are also a lot of people who will see the SC first but not buy it. Then (as you can aee happening on some other forums already) when they see the NC putter line they will all say "thats just a SC knock off" and discount the value of the putter.

FWIW the Gambler series is a WONDERFUL roll. I can't comment on the SC since they weren't available for testing head to head this past fall.

The damage here is in the perception the NC line will get from uninformed consumers. Having rolled it, the Gambler putter line deserves much more than that because it is a FANTASTIC putter.
 
I haven't seen either in person so I can't comment....but I wouldn't buy either....on aesthetics alone. the stamping and theme gimmick isn't for me.

but I ask again....has NC ever done stamps before?
 
What do you mean stamps? Both putters are engraved.
 
snicker.doodles said:
I haven't seen either in person so I can't comment....but I wouldn't buy either....on aesthetics alone. the stamping and theme gimmick isn't for me.

but I ask again....has NC ever done stamps before?
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I don't know the answer to that question as I have never gamed NC putters before. My "marketing" impression is that this is their first real milled release and that they are really changing their identity as a putter maker (moving away from the red/silver inserts that have been their calling card for the past several years). By that thought alone I bet this is the first stamps if only because this is the first series that COULD be stamped.
 
you know what, i'll just come out and say it. most of my dis-taste for SC is b/c of SC owners, but mostly those be all-end all, rub it in your face, holier-than-though SC owners. i've played golf with many of them, and it's merely a status thing, it irritates me. i am not fond of cameron putters b/c i am not fond of putting with something without an insert. i honestly don't care where he gets his designs or ideas from, but i do care when i have to be surrounded by those that defend SC like he's god's gift to putters and putter creation.

in the case of his "holiday" putter that is littered with playing card designs, that just so happened to come out before the NC gambler series, well, i just don't like it. i think it's dirty and if you can't admit that it was done intentionally then you are simple minded. it's nothing more than showing another company that he has more money and the "try and do something about" mentality just oozes out.

he's never gotten any of my money and never will, ultimately, that's all i can control.
 
JB.....you can take me out of the SC fanboy club because I'm not in it. I don't "feel" like anyone is right or wrong. But all the bashing and hate based on what? Coincidence. Scotty stamped themes long before NC decided to. The playing card theme, while suspect from both angles, has nothing to back it up. SC use the suit of clubs before NC. Isn't is possible that NC brainstormed the ideas based on " hey that guy SC has made a ton of money using stamps and themes on his milled putters....let's try it too". That's re way business is done and ideas are created.

I AM NOT saying that's how it happened....just that its possible. it's also possible that SC got wind of their idea and trumped them (no pun). but without any rectifiable proof.....I wouldn't hate anyone as much as some of the hate here.


how much is the retail on the gambler putter? and isn't $250 plus tax still above $250?
 
This isn't the issue of companies milling or stamping themed putters. It's Cameron coming out with Casanova and NC Gamblers way too close for comfort. The Casanova is supposed to be a "Holiday" putter.... what is Holiday about gambling?
 
snicker.doodles said:
JB.....you can take me out of the SC fanboy club because I'm not in it. I don't "feel" like anyone is right or wrong. But all the bashing and hate based on what? Coincidence. Scotty stamped themes long before NC decided to. The playing card theme, while suspect from both angles, has nothing to back it up. SC use the suit of clubs before NC. Isn't is possible that NC brainstormed the ideas based on " hey that guy SC has made a ton of money using stamps and themes on his milled putters....let's try it too". That's re way business is done and ideas are created.

I AM NOT saying that's how it happened....just that its possible. it's also possible that SC got wind of their idea and trumped them (no pun). but without any rectifiable proof.....I wouldn't hate anyone as much as some of the hate here.


how much is the retail on the gambler putter? and isn't $250 plus tax still above $250?
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Couple of things? Did I ever say you were a fan boy? I dont remember ever saying that.
2nd are you really going to classify tax as part of your debate on price? All prices share the same tax. I was merely pointing out that those putters are not over $250 retail. Just as the SC are not over $300 retail (most regular anyway). But hey, maybe we should add tax on them and call them over $300.
I suppose you will now say that because SC has used red dots for years, that when he put one as an alignment aid directly behind the shaft that it was not a clear copy of the SeeMore RST technology.

Nobody is saying that they have facts on how it went down. Nobody! But just as you have your opinion on the subject, many others have theirs.
 
snicker.doodles said:
TC.....lucky for me... I game a modified black series tour #9.
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lucky for you is right. my dislike can wear a person down. i love the look of the black #9 but to bad for me it's milled.
 
JB said:
Couple of things? Did I ever say you were a fan boy? I dont remember ever saying that.
2nd are you really going to classify tax as part of your debate on price? Really? I was merely pointing out that those putters are not over $250 retail. Just as the SC are not over $300 retail (most regular anyway). But hey, maybe we should add tax on them and call them over $300.
I suppose you will now say that because SC has used red dots for years, that when he put one as an alignment aid directly behind the shaft that it was not a clear copy of the SeeMore RST technology.

Nobody is saying that they have facts on how it went down. Nobody! But just as you have your opinion on the subject, many others have theirs.
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he totally pirated RST.

and you're right....I totally should have put above $249
 
johndeere10 said:
This isn't the issue of companies milling or stamping themed putters. It's Cameron coming out with Casanova and NC Gamblers way too close for comfort. The Casanova is supposed to be a "Holiday" putter.... what is Holiday about gambling?
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none of SC's holiday releases have a traditional holiday theme. at least not any I've googled.
 
 
I am a big Cameron fan, and I have been since I owned my first SC in 1997 when I was in High School. I worked my butt off to save for that putter. That being said, no putter is "Original" and i have no problem with him taking designs and making them his own.

Now I also own a few headcovers, however im not crazy and I dont treat my putters better than parents treat their children...they are not art, nor are they collectors items. I have two Camerons and game them both.

I think that most Cameron owners are crazy and can be classified with the above statements.
 
Kumbaya my Lord, Kumbaya.....Kumaya my Lord, Kumbaya.....

Thought it was time for a little unity. Come on, lets all sing!!!
 
snicker.doodles said:
and by lord you surely mean Scotty Cameron.




I kid.
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That was funny!

Nothing wrong with rolling a Cameron if it is the right putter for you. I think that people kind of feel that Cameron, the most popular putter maker in the world, is being a little petty and bullyish by coming out with a gambling themed putter when NC is hyping their new putters based on the same theme. Did SC see a good idea and do his own version of it, or is he trying to steal the thunder from NC by creating a very similar putter. I guess one could even argue that this will help NC out by bringing attention to it where people would not have paid attention before.

I have no clue what the motives behind SC producing this putter, but if I were SC, I would not have milled a putter with a poker theme because I would not have felt right about it. I think that is why the reactions to this putter are so strong (along with the bully thing mentioned above, nobody likes a bully).
 
:D SC pissed off the mods of Golfwrx. They created a headcover in 2008 that looked like war plane "Flying Tiger" few years back and SC made similar one for 09 US Open. When Golfwrx went to go re-order more from AM&E they wouldn't let them because how similar it was too SC one. LOL Sad since Golfwrx one was made almost a year earlier. :D
 
I totally missed out on this thread! Just finished reading the 13 pages on this one. My opinions on the matter for the most part fall into the general consensus that the timing is highly suspect and that SC is more flash than substance. I've tried a couple of SC's in the store and haven't been a huge fan. Probably more because I'm not a big milled putter fan, but there are milled putters out there that I liked more. The Odyssey Blacks come to mind. In the end, we choose our equipment. Some of us are more easily swayed by marketing and hype than others. But like Seth and many others have said, it is about what works for you. I game one of the more "hyped" putters of this year, the Corza Ghost, but I do so because dang-it it just works for me better than all the others I've tried. You can't argue with success. So there are the SC lovers and SC haters out there, the important thing to take away is that we shouldn't get wrapped up in the hype and make decisions that work for us, not what the masses say. So if a SC works for you, that's awesome. If it doesn't then find one that does. It doesn't make it a bad putter or anything like that. We as a society pay too much attention to what others are doing. The blind lead the blind. What good can come from that? Golf is a game based on individual achievement. So you shouldn't just play something just because it's popular or what someone else told you to buy. If it doesn't work for you, why in the hell would you play it if it is negatively affecting you. Go out and do your research. Don't play what the pros play just because that's what the pros play. We aren't being paid to play, in fact it's entirely the other way around. So to make it enjoyable, find what works for you and go out and play. Don't let hype or marketing lead you down the wrong path. [End Rant]
 
9 iron man...totally agree with your thoughts.


i own a cameron. i don't game it because the heel-shafted #9 is sooooo good to me. i resisted cameron for a long time. when he offered a milled, no-insert, newport, with adjustable weights, and a shorter length....all without having to pay for customization....i jumped on it. i do love it. it fits my eye and my stroke perfectly. it's not in the bag because my PPR is a touch lower with the #9. the cost of my cameron was in my budget and comparable to the other milled putters that i was considering. to get the spec's that i desired from another milled putter manufacturer....i would have had to have it custom made at more $$. why not pull the trigger? it's a great putter, imo. that putter is the only SC putter i have ever considered. if he makes one in the specific finish that i desire....i'll grab that one too.


to each their own.
 
TC said:
you know what, i'll just come out and say it. most of my dis-taste for SC is b/c of SC owners, but mostly those be all-end all, rub it in your face, holier-than-though SC owners. i've played golf with many of them, and it's merely a status thing, it irritates me. i am not fond of cameron putters b/c i am not fond of putting with something without an insert. i honestly don't care where he gets his designs or ideas from, but i do care when i have to be surrounded by those that defend SC like he's god's gift to putters and putter creation.

in the case of his "holiday" putter that is littered with playing card designs, that just so happened to come out before the NC gambler series, well, i just don't like it. i think it's dirty and if you can't admit that it was done intentionally then you are simple minded. it's nothing more than showing another company that he has more money and the "try and do something about" mentality just oozes out.

he's never gotten any of my money and never will, ultimately, that's all i can control.
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I definitely agree, there are are TON of people who buy thousand dollar Cameron's and act like they are holier than thou for it.. I personally own a Cameron (bought used), and currently have it covered by the nicest headcover I own (THP white, baby!!!!) so while I agree there are people who own them as a status symbol or people who think the putter makes them better, there are also plenty of people who simply like the putter regardless of what name is on it.

Also, SC definitely has a handful of insert lines, from the basic studio style to the button backs... Prices are crazy for some of them, and quite reasonable for others. Not that they are anything more special than an Odyssey or a TM, but the insert lines are certainly there.
 
Just saw this thread today.

Pretty sad that SC is making knock offs. It used to be the other way around.
 
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