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Loft Marketing Hype??

SuperStroke
Petroguy said:
My .02:

The loft issue only bothers me in regards to marketing for the exact reasons many of you said none of this matters. Clubs now are marketing irons as the "longest" when most of this comes from the fact that the lofts are strengthened to "fool" the uninformed into thinking that they have clubs that have some sort of unearthly metal in them that allows their PW to go 15 yards further than it used to.

It is the equivalent of setting your clock a half hour early to have more time. It never made sense to me. Just get your arse out of bed earlier and take a 9 instead of a PW. I guess that doesn't sell iron sets though.
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But is it really? They are longer. Be it for stronger lofts, better shafts, or longer shafts, they are longer. Look at it this way. Is the modern 3 iron longer than the older 3 iron? Yes. What does the argument say then? Because sets dont come with a 2 iron. So if you want to compare apples to apples and not say (well I would just hit a longer iron), use the 3 iron. For hatever reason they are longer.

And if that brings more to the game, than I am all for it. Truth is, people want to hit 7-PW and if this gives them more confidence based on being uninformed, I am all for it. Truthfully, I feel the same way. I have much more confidence in the 7 iron than I do my 6 or 5. Why? I have no idea, but it has always been that way. So when I am playing, I dont think, well my 7 iron is really a 6 iron, so I might not hit it well. I think, great, I am hitting a 7 iron.

It makes no difference to me whatever someone chooses to play. They can bend their irons if they want to be 5 clubs stronger or weaker in my opinion. In the end for me, it is all about enjoyment. This game is hard enough as it is and if stronger lofts give a single person more confidence, I am all for it.
 
Like many have already said, does it matter what club you hit 150 as long as you a club 150? But i have thought of this and agree with you that even though there are technological advances, a lot of this "distance" comes from stronger lofts. People just need to do research before they buy clubs.
 
JB said:
But is it really? They are longer. Be it for stronger lofts, better shafts, or longer shafts, they are longer. Look at it this way. Is the modern 3 iron longer than the older 3 iron? Yes. What does the argument say then? Because sets dont come with a 2 iron. So if you want to compare apples to apples and not say (well I would just hit a longer iron), use the 3 iron. For hatever reason they are longer.

And if that brings more to the game, than I am all for it. Truth is, people want to hit 7-PW and if this gives them more confidence based on being uninformed, I am all for it. Truthfully, I feel the same way. I have much more confidence in the 7 iron than I do my 6 or 5. Why? I have no idea, but it has always been that way. So when I am playing, I dont think, well my 7 iron is really a 6 iron, so I might not hit it well. I think, great, I am hitting a 7 iron.

It makes no difference to me whatever someone chooses to play. They can bend their irons if they want to be 5 clubs stronger or weaker in my opinion. In the end for me, it is all about enjoyment. This game is hard enough as it is and if stronger lofts give a single person more confidence, I am all for it.
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I suppose you are right.

With all due respect though, in my opinion, this is done to sell irons. I am not debating the benefit to any one players psyche or to golf as a whole. Just my opinion.
 
Petroguy said:
I suppose you are right.

With all due respect though, in my opinion, this is done to sell irons. I am not debating the benefit to any one players psyche or to golf as a whole. Just my opinion.
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I dont dispute that at all. Just like any other industry, marketing is huge. I just dont think the end consumer is penalized as a result of this.
 
Petroguy said:
I suppose you are right.

With all due respect though, in my opinion, this is done to sell irons. I am not debating the benefit to any one players psyche or to golf as a whole. Just my opinion.
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of course it's done to sell irons, that's the business aspect of it. marketing is marketing, and we all come to THP in order to conduct our own research, ask questions, and share experiences. we all do this so we can come to our own conclusions on what we want to put in our bags.
 
gbigoose1 said:
Like many have already said, does it matter what club you hit 150 as long as you a club 150?
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Yes, if you on the following hole have to hit it 210 but your longest club goes 150. :act-up:
 
Okay so where does it stop? Do you guys envision that we will hit a ceiling? Will the arms race of loft stop for some reason?

(Great conversation by the way. I want to make sure that everyone involved knows I am just stoking the fire some for the sake of insightful debate, and nothing more.)
 
I dont think loft standardization is the way to go, nor do i mind a company making a 45* or 42* PW. When i buy a new set of clubs, i just make sure there is an even gap with the wedges, no matter what the lofts are on the other clubs. I will probably be purchasing the burner 2.0 set in the spring, and knowing that the PW is 45*, i am getting a 50* gap wedge and 55* sand wedge for christmas. I think it is up to the consumer to do the research on a new set of clubs.
 
I'm also quite fine with the business aspect of it to sell the irons. I want these companies to stay in business to keep making great product.

The other reason I like sets with stronger lofts is that courses keep getting longer. For some reason they keep extending the course length that the average me has to play just because Johnson or Biggsy's hits it so far the ball catches fire (even if it's a course neither of them will ever play). If the stronger lofts with different shafts and head tech help me get there is less shots, great!

My only issue with this is matching up the clubs on either side of the irons. I know a friend of mine had a wicked time getting the rest of his bag set up with the S2's as the PW and 4 iron lofts messed with the lofts of his wedges/hybrids and it took him awhile to get happy.
 
Petroguy said:
Okay so where does it stop? Do you guys envision that we will hit a ceiling? Will the arms race of loft stop for some reason?

(Great conversation by the way. I want to make sure that everyone involved knows I am just stoking the fire some for the sake of insightful debate, and nothing more.)
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I agree with you here. Its a great conversation that in the end brings light to exactly what THP stands for, which is moving past the marketing.
 
JB said:
I agree with you here. Its a great conversation that in the end brings light to exactly what THP stands for, which is moving past the marketing.
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I dont think you could find better or more insightful conversation anywhere else. This is why THP and the members here are the best.
 
JB said:
So you believe that loft is the ONLY difference in the clubs and improvements? Different weighting, use of materials, and shaft means nothing? I mean I have all of those sets that you are speaking of here and one is longer than the other. They also offer different ball flights. Does the loft matter? Of course it does, but frankly to who?

This is my opinion and maybe only my opinion and I am not saying it to hurt anybody's feelings or put anybody down. But to me the only people that seem to get upset about this are the ones playing weaker lofts? Why? Because someone is saying they are hitting it further by them with the same iron? They are always the ones to quickly point out that it is stronger lofted. They quickly point out that they hit their 6 just as far as the stronger lofts hit their 7. And maybe they do. But who cares really?

Stronger lofts are also being able to be achieved because of better balance and weighting. Because of those advances in technology as well as TONS in shafts, people can hit lower lofts now.
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JB while I agree with most of your sentiments here I think that looking at the lofts of clubs is important. If I am looking a new set of irons I want to be able to judge distance differences beween equivolent lofts. Now like you and others have mentioned there are many variables involved when looking at two different sets of irons but I find it best to keep loft as a constant when experimening with different irons. Others may prefer to matchup 6 iron to 6 iron or 38" long club to 38" club.

Now if I find that the new irons 7 has the same loft as my current 6 I really could care less if it is more forgiving, has a good feel, and provides more distance (per equivalent loft.) It would just mean that I would bag 4-GW insead of 3-PW.
 
I've read the different answers and I'm pretty indifferent about what the loft is for most of the irons and I definitely would take the extra distance, but I'm more curious about the ball flight. I play a set that has weaker lofts that the new irons coming out but what I'm curious about is can I get a similar ball flight and spin with a stronger lofted iron i.e. Burner 2.0 so that my ball sticks to the green with the scoring irons? Obviously, if the Burner 2.0 9 iron flies the same as mine but is 20 yards longer then I'm off to the store right now.
 
This brings in another topic as well that plays right into this. That is playable loft. Everybody is talking about loft as the distance measuring stick, but playable loft can be just as equally important. Most clubs that you are seeing as stronger lofted, check the offset on them and determine playable loft and what that does to the loft being talked about.
 
JB said:
This brings in another topic as well that plays right into this. That is playable loft. Everybody is talking about loft as the distance measuring stick, but playable loft can be just as equally important. Most clubs that you are seeing as stronger lofted, check the offset on them and determine playable loft and what that does to the loft being talked about.
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JB I googled playable loft and was not able to find a decent article that relates to this. Do you have a link or some information about this that you wouldn't mind sharing? I had not even considered this concept and would like to explore it a little more.

john

ps
My t key is not working correcly and it is driving me insane! :at-wits-end:
 
johnnymo said:
JB I googled playable loft and was not able to find a decent article that relates to this. Do you have a link or some information about this that you wouldn't mind sharing? I had not even considered this concept and would like to explore it a little more.

john

ps
My t key is not working correcly and it is driving me insane! :at-wits-end:
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I dont have anything on my laptop as far links go, but can put something together for you this week and post it.

I do think people overlook this aspect of it quite a bit. Many believe offset is strictly for correcting a miss, but in reality, that is not accurate. And most of these stronger lofted irons have more offset than their game enhancement version counterparts, it can certainly play a larger role than many consider when debating this one way or another.
 
Love this debate and I have to say I am on the side of who cares what is the label on the iron as long as you know how far you hit it. Also shaft length comes into this and as a person who plays with irons +1/2" should my 8 iron be relabeled as a 7 because the length is now different? Also the club as getting more distance just in tech advances. A little test we did here with a flight scope launch monitor was we took a 2.0 6 iron and a burner 6 iron and measured the ball speed off of identical swing speeds. After 50 swings by me and 50 swings by the pro in the shop we found that in identical swing speeds the ball speed of the 2.0 was 3.85 miles per hour faster than the original burner. This was not from stronger lofts but from advances in the club itself.
 
TC said:
of course it's done to sell irons, that's the business aspect of it. marketing is marketing, and we all come to THP in order to conduct our own research, ask questions, and share experiences. we all do this so we can come to our own conclusions on what we want to put in our bags.
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NO, that may be why we start out coming here. Then we just plain get addicted to new equipment HA HA. TC is right. If you want great reviews on equipment that you may, or may not, need this is the place for unbiased info. The purpose of marketing is to convince you that you HAVE to have something new. The purpose of the testers here at THP is to give real information on said products. I have yet to see anything that resembles brand loyalty here (except maybe for Ole Gray). Equipment is what it is... But the testers here tell us all EXACTLY what it really is and what it can do for our game.
 
I would like to know more about playable lofts as well.
 
Great insite! Thanks for sharing this.
coolbreeze said:
Love this debate and I have to say I am on the side of who cares what is the label on the iron as long as you know how far you hit it. Also shaft length comes into this and as a person who plays with irons +1/2" should my 8 iron be relabeled as a 7 because the length is now different? Also the club as getting more distance just in tech advances. A little test we did here with a flight scope launch monitor was we took a 2.0 6 iron and a burner 6 iron and measured the ball speed off of identical swing speeds. After 50 swings by me and 50 swings by the pro in the shop we found that in identical swing speeds the ball speed of the 2.0 was 3.85 miles per hour faster than the original burner. This was not from stronger lofts but from advances in the club itself.
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It all boils down to what works for you.

Im pretty sure the burner 09 had stronger lofts than the X22. Theoretically, they should be longer for me than the X22s.

They aren't. I hit the 22s half a club longer, and straighter.

We all need different things. Hit em before ya buy, get fitted, make birdies.
 
JB said:
I dont have anything on my laptop as far links go, but can put something together for you this week and post it.

I do think people overlook this aspect of it quite a bit. Many believe offset is strictly for correcting a miss, but in reality, that is not accurate. And most of these stronger lofted irons have more offset than their game enhancement version counterparts, it can certainly play a larger role than many consider when debating this one way or another.
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No need to go out of your way JB but I am willing to bet that such information will be appreciated on the forums. In the meantime I will try and dig up what I can on the subject once my brain reboots after a day of Christmas shopping.
 
Look, IT DOESN'T MATTER!

The scorecard doesn't care if you're playing a 42º PW or a 48º PW. In fact the scorecard doesn't care what you play. Whether it's the bladiest blade or the most ultra game improvement iron ever made. The scorecard doesn't care if you hit a 300 yard drive or a 220 yard drive. The only thing the scorecard cares about is how many strokes it took you to get the ball in the hole.
 
I am all for the longer length and stronger lofts if several things still occur. Will the stronger lofted PW still give me what I expect from a PW, higher spin, higher launch, and higher controllability (not even sure it thats a word lol)? If all these are true then I have ZERO problem calling it a PW.

I think a lot of people look at this all wrong on where the advancement is. The TRUE advancement isn't really in distance per degree of loft; its the playability and design of the irons that are the true advancements. What they are really doing is making a 7 iron as easy to hit as an 8 iron, a or a 3 iron that is as easy to hit as a 4 iron.

I think any version of this old saying applies right now. "If it looks like a dog and barks like a dog, well then its probably a dog". Same thing here. " If it looks like a PW and hits like a PW, well then...its probably a PW"
 
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