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Is Andy Reid a great coach?

Esox

Esox

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I know we have an NFL thread, but I would like this to not get lost for a bit. On a couple of fishing forums I frequent, the football threads get pretty vicious. Since they're mostly populated with musky fishermen located in the Midwest, the arguments generally center on the Packers, Bears, and Vikings. A long recent thread concerning Mike McCarthy's abilities as a coach somehow ended up focusing on Andy Reid.

One particular poster, a guy to whom insults and nastiness come naturally, was vociferous in his condemnation of Reid as a coach. The 1-4 record in NFC Chamionship games and the 0-1 Super Record were his main argument. He also personally attacked the man for the problems his family has weathered, stating that a man who would allow his sons to abuse drugs in the manner they did in his own home cannot be a great leader of men.

I've always kind of liked Andy Reid, maybe due to his time with the Packers. If I was an Eagles fan, I would probably be frustrated by the team's inability to win the biggest game, but always having a team that contends has to be fairly fun. That being said, I'm not a fan of Vick, and this complicates my feelings about Reid. God forbid the Packers signed a guy like that, though they've had their share of losers, especially during the 1980's, when the uniforms could well have been orange.

Anyhooo, merge this if you want, but I'm looking for some opinions on Andy Reid.

Kevin
 
I feel this needs to be posted with ANY discussion involving Andy Reid

andrewried.jpg


Overall- I think he is a very good coach. Aside from TO (who everyone struggles with) he does a great job of managing strong ego's and a VERY vocal fan base.
As a coach proper, I am most impressed by him this year. Going into the season they were designed to be a pocket-passing system and all of a sudden with the emergance of Vick they 100% changed their offensive personality. While you could argue a lot of that comes from Vick- it is still difficult to redefine your entire offense the way they did this year. Being flexible with what you have and what you are willing to do, in order to win, is a thing that many coaches never grasp.
 
He's a good coach. Alas, coaches are measured by championships (just like quarterbacks) so no, he is not great. Landry, Shula, Lombardi, Noll, Halas, Walsh, Gibbs among others are great coaches.
 
Andy Reid is a very good coach. There is only one great coach in the NFL right now.
 
He is a very good coach imo. Just look at what he has done this year with a very young team that everyone thought would be a down year for the eagles. He made McNabb the QB he was and now with Vick he is going to be able to do even more with his crazy talents. I think Andy gets his super bowl with the eagles in the next three years and then finally starts to get his due, in every city except Philly cause those sports fans be crazy.
 
blugold said:
Andy Reid is a very good coach. There is only one great coach in the NFL right now.
Click to expand...

That is very arguable.

Bill B.
Mike S.
Mike T.
 
JB said:
That is very arguable.

Bill B.
Mike S.
Mike T.
Click to expand...

Thanks JB. I agree with you on this one. (Don't forget S. Payton... he proved he was an elite "great" coach)
 
JB said:
That is very arguable.

Bill B.
Mike S.
Mike T.
Click to expand...

Are we saying a "great coach" relatively speaking to the other coaches currently in the NFL, or all time?

When I think great coach, I think of an all-timer. NFL Films voice overs come to mind when I see them. There is only one in the NFL right now who does that for me.

Bill Belichik is the one great coach in the NFL. Mike Shanahan has two rings, but he is not a great coach. He had a great quarterback and a very good running back. Every season since then shows that he is not that great of a coach. Mike Tomlin is a very good coach, but he is not yet an all-timer.

Sean Payton did win the Super Bowl, but he is not an all-timer.
 
I too think that Andy Reid is a very good coach. He may even be a great coach, just can't say great yet. But I asked myself, would I like to have Andy Reid as the coach of my favorite NFL/College team? My answers was an unequivocal YES! So I must think he is bordering on being great.

As far as his family goes, I think that is a low blow used by those who are unable to form an intelligible argument.
 
blugold said:
Are we saying a "great coach" relatively speaking to the other coaches currently in the NFL, or all time?

When I think great coach, I think of an all-timer. NFL Films voice overs come to mind when I see them. There is only one in the NFL right now who does that for me.

Bill Belichik is the one great coach in the NFL. Mike Shanahan has two rings, but he is not a great coach. He had a great quarterback and a very good running back. Every season since then shows that he is not that great of a coach. Mike Tomlin is a very good coach, but he is not yet an all-timer.

Sean Payton did win the Super Bowl, but he is not an all-timer.
Click to expand...

So wait, Bill B is a great coach and Mike S is not and its only talent based? Really? How many great coaches do you know that had no talent?
 
RxGus said:
I feel this needs to be posted with ANY discussion involving Andy Reid

andrewried.jpg


Overall- I think he is a very good coach. Aside from TO (who everyone struggles with) he does a great job of managing strong ego's and a VERY vocal fan base.
As a coach proper, I am most impressed by him this year. Going into the season they were designed to be a pocket-passing system and all of a sudden with the emergance of Vick they 100% changed their offensive personality. While you could argue a lot of that comes from Vick- it is still difficult to redefine your entire offense the way they did this year. Being flexible with what you have and what you are willing to do, in order to win, is a thing that many coaches never grasp.
Click to expand...


also has to be posted that he lost that pass, punt, kick comp even though he outweighed the other kids by at least 100lbs
 
JB said:
So wait, Bill B is a great coach and Mike S is not and its only talent based? Really? How many great coaches do you know that had no talent?
Click to expand...

Not what I'm saying. I understand that Mike S is a great coach currently coaching in the NFL. But to me, he is not an all timer. The victory in SB 36 was won by Bill Belichik. That makes him an all timer. If I had a slacker football team that needed a kick in the ass, I would definately hire Mike Shanahan. But on the Mount Rushmore of coaches, Bill Belichik is up there, Mike Shanahan is not.
 
blugold said:
Not what I'm saying. I understand that Mike S is a great coach currently coaching in the NFL. But to me, he is not an all timer. The victory in SB 36 was won by Bill Belichik. That makes him an all timer. If I had a slacker football team that needed a kick in the ass, I would definately hire Mike Shanahan. But on the Mount Rushmore of coaches, Bill Belichik is up there, Mike Shanahan is not.
Click to expand...

Trying to understand here. In your opinion there are only 4 great coaches of all time and the rest are very good? Or 4 all timers and the rest are very good? Im using Mt Rushmore as an example.

Could the same be said for Bill by the way? Do you remember his time as a head coach before he had Mr. Brady? I think the Cleveland Browns do. During his tenure in Cleveland he had a 36–44 record. Seems awful similar to the Mike S tenure since Elway huh?
 
Dr. Teeth said:
As far as his family goes, I think that is a low blow used by those who are unable to form an intelligible argument.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. The guy I was speaking of also made the statement that if his kids committed felonies in his house, he would be in jail for pounding on them. I fear he's a bit of a lunatic.

Andy Reid suffers from the same syndrome as Marv Levy, and maybe Bud Grant. Can't get it done in the biggest of games. I agree with whomever mentioned Reid made McNabb into the player he was in Philly. I've never felt McNabb had the skills of the all time greats, but they won a lot of games together.

As much as I hate to say it, Shanahan qualifies as great. Maybe a notch below Belichek, and even Cowher, who I think was perennially great.

Kevin
 
JB said:
Trying to understand here. In your opinion there are only 4 great coaches of all time and the rest are very good? Or 4 all timers and the rest are very good? Im using Mt Rushmore as an example.

Could the same be said for Bill by the way? Do you remember his time as a head coach before he had Mr. Brady? I think the Cleveland Browns do. During his tenure in Cleveland he had a 36–44 record. Seems awful similar to the Mike S tenure since Elway huh?
Click to expand...

To me the question is, are we talking about great coaches relative to the other current coaches in the NFL. If so, Mike Shanahan, Tomlin, or Reid would all be great coaches currently in the NFL. But I am not going to argue that Mike Tomlin is in the same level as John Madden. Can't do it.

My four heads on the Mt. Rushmore (since the merger) are Lombardi, Landry, Knoll, Walsh.

Holy Crap. Belichik doesn't make my list. You are right JB. Although, if the Pats win it this year, I will change my mind.
 
Esox said:
Couldn't agree more. The guy I was speaking of also made the statement that if his kids committed felonies in his house, he would be in jail for pounding on them. I fear he's a bit of a lunatic.

Andy Reid suffers from the same syndrome as Marv Levy, and maybe Bud Grant. Can't get it done in the biggest of games. I agree with whomever mentioned Reid made McNabb into the player he was in Philly. I've never felt McNabb had the skills of the all time greats, but they won a lot of games together.

As much as I hate to say it, Shanahan qualifies as great. Maybe a notch below Belichek, and even Cowher, who I think was perennially great.

Kevin
Click to expand...

You are dead right on this one. He is a very good coach.

I think a lot of the times we get caught up in some of the coaches and their abilities. Truth is that many of these that we are discussing are great coaches. The problem is that they also want control and when that happens a lot of times we see they are not the best evaluators of talent. Shanny is the perfect example of that. Where as Bill B is a great example of one that is great at both.
 
blugold said:
To me the question is, are we talking about great coaches relative to the other current coaches in the NFL. If so, Mike Shanahan, Tomlin, or Reid would all be great coaches currently in the NFL. But I am not going to argue that Mike Tomlin is in the same level as John Madden. Can't do it.

My four heads on the Mt. Rushmore (since the merger) are Lombardi, Landry, Knoll, Walsh.

Holy Crap. Belichik doesn't make my list. You are right JB. Although, if the Pats win it this year, I will change my mind.
Click to expand...

And yet many of those guys never had to deal with a level playing field and free agency. When they did (a few) it did not go so well.
 
Esox said:
Andy Reid suffers from the same syndrome as Marv Levy, and maybe Bud Grant. Can't get it done in the biggest of games. I agree with whomever mentioned Reid made McNabb into the player he was in Philly. I've never felt McNabb had the skills of the all time greats, but they won a lot of games together.
Click to expand...

That is my argument on why he is not a great coach, right there. Bud Grant got to four Super Bowls and lost every one. Ditto for Levy. Makes them not a great coach. Good, obviously. But not great. You gotta get the job done. (To Levy's and Grant's credit, they did win two and four championships, respectively, in Canada, but that's not the NFL). Obviously coaches won NFL Championships prior to the Super Bowl's existence, so those count as well.
 
JB said:
The problem is that they also want control and when that happens a lot of times we see they are not the best evaluators of talent. Shanny is the perfect example of that. Where as Bill B is a great example of one that is great at both.
Click to expand...

Mike Holmgrenwas a victim of this in Seattle. Ron Wolf made his team in Green Bay. They would have been back-to-back Super Bowls, but they got Favred (whenever a QB throws a pick on a drive to tie or win the game). Mike thought he could do the same on his own. He almost pulled it off, but nope. Out done by a very good Denver team coached by a very good Mike Shanahan.
 
JB said:
And yet many of those guys never had to deal with a level playing field and free agency. When they did (a few) it did not go so well.
Click to expand...

I agree, but you can't blame the era. But Mike Shanahan doesn't stack up to those four.

I am not arguing whether or not I would want Mike S to coach a team I was GMing, I am just saying that he is not an all-timer. He is the closest that the 90s had though.
 
blugold said:
Mike Holmgrenwas a victim of this in Seattle. Ron Wolf made his team in Green Bay. They would have been back-to-back Super Bowls, but they got Favred (whenever a QB throws a pick on a drive to tie or win the game). Mike thought he could do the same on his own. He almost pulled it off, but nope. Out done by a very good Denver team coached by a very good Mike Shanahan.
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Holmgren was out coached by Shanahan in that game. The players know it. To this day, Dorsey Levens won't speak of the game. He had a great first half, and Holmgren stopped running the ball. He was going to throw it no matter what, even though the Denver defensive backs, especially the safety, Atwater I believe, were all over the short passing game. Chumura, the creep, talks about it often. Sherm Lewis tried to talk to Holmgren, and he would not listen.

Pisses me off to this day.

Kevin
 
Kevin,

I teared. But, Favre happened. That was the first big game that he showed who he was/is.

Favred.
 
I think he is a very good coach. I would not call him great. I would think he is in that 2nd tier of coaches in the NFL at the moment.
 
Good coach, never will be a great coach. Since these posts are all based on opinions and coach potato observations, this only my opinion.

Fact, no Super Bowel win. Marv Levy had 4 Super Bowel Losses, IMO, he was a great coach. His former players say he is was a great coach. Do Andy Reid's players say he is/was a great coach? Don't know.

Andy has had personnel problems, great players not playing to their potential, is 100 pounds over weight, a kid with a criminal drug problem. IMO, all signs of someone with possibly less than great leadership skills.
 
coughlin03 said:
Good coach, never will be a great coach. Since these posts are all based on opinions and coach potato observations, this only my opinion.

Fact, no Super Bowel win. Marv Levy had 4 Super Bowel Losses, IMO, he was a great coach. His former players say he is was a great coach. Do Andy Reid's players say he is/was a great coach? Don't know.

Andy has had personnel problems, great players not playing to their potential, is 100 pounds over weight, a kid with a criminal drug problem. IMO, all signs of someone with possibly less than great leadership skills.
Click to expand...

Again, no championships = not a great coach. A good, even very good coach to be sure. But to lose the big game four times doesn't show greatness. He got there sure, but he didn't seal the deal even ONE time. Levy was not a great NFL coach. He did win two championships in Canada, so he should be considered a great CFL coach. The NFL, not so much.
 
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