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Why is greenside spin so important?

I know I will give this ball change much time before I call it one way or another. Just too bad I won't be golfing for several more weeks. Winter is far from over where I'm at.
 
I dont need length from a ball and I want spin when needed. So I choose spinnier balls. If i am playing a flop or bunker shot to a downhill sloping green I have to be able to stop the ball, or help it to stop. Some of the balls I've played in the past wouldn't stop with pure contact. So I went to b 330, pro v1, and recently penta. I know they will stop, period. Some others won't.

Side note: I know ball technology has changed quite a bit over the past few years, but I have really only played these few
balls recently. Now I wonder.
 
Let me say that I think there are plenty of golfer who can benefit from tour balls and should use them. I'm not saying that nobody should play them. What I'm saying is that there are lots of golfers who shouldn't be playing them, but have themselves convinced that they should be. If you like your tour balls and they work for you are all right with me :)
 
Interesting topic. I don't consider myself to be a big spinner of the ball on abreviated shots around the green, so having a ball with a little more bite adds a bit of confidence.
 
Courses here tend to be really mound filled around the greens. Your always in a hole or dip, or on a mound. So you always have these little shots over something or to an elevated pin. The spin of the high end balls helps a lot. And at the course I play, the greens are very fast, and a softer putting ball helps on those nasty downhillers.
 
I'm not a big spin kinda player, in the past year I thought I needed more. I got frustrated with excessive rollout but then I read an interview with an older golfer about spinning balls back. Someone asked him how he does it, his reply was "do you typically fly the flag?" The person replied back "no I normally land it short." Golf pro's response was "then why would ever want to spin away from the hole?" I play with a friend who backs up a lot of shots and gloats about it pulling the string, of course sometimes that string yanks the ball right off the green.

I never bought many of the high end balls because honestly until recently I lost to many right to justify it. That being said I do like a softer covered ball, something along the lines of the trispeed tour, vapor speed or e5. I had a mini romance with the rxs but it spins too much off the driver so that negated the approach spin. Who cares if the 7th shot into a par 5 sticks when all your other shots went left or right since the ball wasn't right for your game.

I love my mid-priced 3 piece balls cause they are predictable and reliable, and if ever going to get my handicap in order before March 15 I need reliable. That's my "it took me a while to figure that out lesson."

insert witty sig line here. Tapatalk
 
SW FLA said:
I'm not a big spin kinda player, in the past year I thought I needed more. I got frustrated with excessive rollout but then I read an interview with an older golfer about spinning balls back. Someone asked him how he does it, his reply was "do you typically fly the flag?" The person replied back "no I normally land it short." Golf pro's response was "then why would ever want to spin away from the hole?" I play with a friend who backs up a lot of shots and gloats about it pulling the string, of course sometimes that string yanks the ball right off the green.

I never bought many of the high end balls because honestly until recently I lost to many right to justify it. That being said I do like a softer covered ball, something along the lines of the trispeed tour, vapor speed or e5. I had a mini romance with the rxs but it spins too much off the driver so that negated the approach spin. Who cares if the 7th shot into a par 5 sticks when all your other shots went left or right since the ball wasn't right for your game.

I love my mid-priced 3 piece balls cause they are predictable and reliable, and if ever going to get my handicap in order before March 15 I need reliable. That's my "it took me a while to figure that out lesson."

insert witty sig line here. Tapatalk
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Great line.
 
Hawk said:
What I'm saying is that there are lots of golfers who shouldn't be playing them, but have themselves convinced that they should be.
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Man is that the truth! I can remember some Saturdays when I'd be in the local Dick's golf section checking out this or that, or watching the tournament on the big screen for a bit, and just watching all the people walking in and buying boxes of Pro V1/V1x balls. All ages, shapes, sizes, etc. The ones I always just laughed to myself about is when one looks at his friend and asks what he should get, and the friend would pipe in with "Get the Titleists, that's what all the pros use."

Another favorite was when at a Bridgestone fitting event last spring, there was this older gentleman that went while I was watching and waiting for the crowd to thin. Poor old guy says he's using a Titleist Pro V1. They clocked him at all of 70 mph clubhead speed. Now, I'm not knocking anyone for their swing speed, but at that speed there's no compression going on at all with that ball. The ended up recommending the Laddie X - the didn't want him to be insulted by recommending a women's Lady IQ Plus which was a better fit.
 
HoosierGolfer said:
Marketing has very little to do with what I play or what I buy. I've never been one to buy something because it works for someone else or some OEM says their product will work for me. I'm a trial and error kind of guy.
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What did you do when companies changed from the Balata balls to the "new" premium balls? That spin change was more severe than going from a premium ball to a mid-level ball on todays market. I hear some old club fitters talk about a decrease in spin 1000-1500 rpms from the old balata balls.
 
RxGus said:
What did you do when companies changed from the Balata balls to the "new" premium balls? That spin change was more severe than going from a premium ball to a mid-level ball on todays market. I hear some old club fitters talk about a decrease in spin 1000-1500 rpms from the old balata balls.
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There's an oldie! Those things were spinny too, they're not kidding. Of course, they also liked to "smile" if you took too much ball with a swing. :beat-up:
 
I was fitted online by bridgestone for the e-6 (probably bc i listed accuracy important to me as well as my biggest miss; left)

And i played it more than any other ball last year - it is very nice off the tee - but considerably less greenside spin than others IMO.

I gamed a zstar - but it clearly wasnt for me - the b330 rxs i really liked - watching my wedges back up was nice - mostly bc thats what you see the pros do. So my mind believes that is a good thing.

However i did notice off the tee - my miss - would be more exaggerated left; than if i had hit an e-6.

Sooo its a delicate balance i guess. Do i want the softer feel/spinnier feel around the greens - or do i want more control off the tee.

That is what i debate when choosing a ball for the round.

If i completely cure that hook off the tee - then i would maybe eliminate teh e-6.

I did speak live with a bridgestone fitter - and he recommended the b330 rx - so that is what i requested for the outing. I am excited to try it - and would love to get to one of the actual bridgestone fittings - on a launch monitor- and see what they come up with some day.
 
Osahar said:
There's an oldie! Those things were spinny too, they're not kidding. Of course, they also liked to "smile" if you took too much ball with a swing. :beat-up:
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I mean, I guess thats my point in all of this.
Once upon a time people were thinking "How can we ever live without that much spin" and here we are doing just fine 12 years later.

I am just as guilty of playing a premium ball that may not be doing me any favors. I have always justified it by saying I am a low spin player and that I need all the help I can get. As I have worked on my swing and fixed some casting issues I am starting to see a lot more spin. I have decided to play the e6 through my swing change because I have a tendency to banana my balls, but maybe I'll switch back to the premiums I still have in my bag. I do have a rule for this year though- If I spin a ball back, I had better be past the hole. If I start spinning balls back without reaching the hole my mid-level balls are getting in the bag and staying there.
 
RxGus said:
I mean, I guess thats my point in all of this.
Once upon a time people were thinking "How can we ever live without that much spin" and here we are doing just fine 12 years later.

I am just as guilty of playing a premium ball that may not be doing me any favors. I have always justified it by saying I am a low spin player and that I need all the help I can get. As I have worked on my swing and fixed some casting issues I am starting to see a lot more spin. I have decided to play the e6 through my swing change because I have a tendency to banana my balls, but maybe I'll switch back to the premiums I still have in my bag. I do have a rule for this year though- If I spin a ball back, I had better be past the hole. If I start spinning balls back without reaching the hole my mid-level balls are getting in the bag and staying there.
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It only spun back 6" on that par 3 and missed a hole in one from about a foot at most! It's ok if it's not past the hole RxGus! I'll never forget that beautiful shot you hit last weekend!
 
Esox said:
I'm going to say that a lot of golfers don't, I'm going to use the the "clip", the ball correctly to make the ball spin on greenside shots. So maybe then the type of ball doesn't matter.

Or maybe, a softer ball would help them. One thing is for sure, if you don't trust your hands to accelerate through the ball and hit it crisply on even a very short chip, it's not going to spin.

Kevin
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I'd say this is true and leads this 20hc to his question: how do you generate spin on greenside shots?

Around the greens i usually chip/pitch by playing the ball back in my stance, feet closer together, slight forward press and i accelerate through the shot, and i think i've never generated any backspin, i'm sure there's something (more likely mutliple somethings) i'm missing?
I have been watching and reading all sorts of golf tips that i've been finding this winter including a spin tip that tells me to keep the clubhead low and short on the follow through, i've been trying that on my carpet (which is very thin and hard for reference) and been noticing some success, but until the snow melts I won't know for sure.

Same thing for full shots, i have full cavity backs so I assume i won't be able to generate nearly as much backspin as I could with blades, but I don't know how to make swings on my approach that get the ball to stick. I feel as though every green I hit with every club I hit, lands to hard and runs more than it should. Is it just ball trajectory and I need to work on follow through position?
 
KellyBo said:
It only spun back 6" on that par 3 and missed a hole in one from about a foot at most! It's ok if it's not past the hole RxGus! I'll never forget that beautiful shot you hit last weekend!
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That was an E6.
If I had hit a Penta I would have been 4-5 feet away and turned a birdie into a par.
 
Greenside spin to me is just a matter of knowing what to expect out my ball, if I know for sure that my ball will check a bit then roll out (which is what the B330-S does) I can play the shots with 100% confidence. Even if I played a non-premium ball I could adapt as long as it does the same thing every time. I prefer the premium ball I play because I need all the spin I can get with iron shots into the greens.
 
cj3ap2 said:
I'd say this is true and leads this 20hc to his question: how do you generate spin on greenside shots?

Around the greens i usually chip/pitch by playing the ball back in my stance, feet closer together, slight forward press and i accelerate through the shot, and i think i've never generated any backspin, i'm sure there's something (more likely mutliple somethings) i'm missing?
I have been watching and reading all sorts of golf tips that i've been finding this winter including a spin tip that tells me to keep the clubhead low and short on the follow through, i've been trying that on my carpet (which is very thin and hard for reference) and been noticing some success, but until the snow melts I won't know for sure.

Same thing for full shots, i have full cavity backs so I assume i won't be able to generate nearly as much backspin as I could with blades, but I don't know how to make swings on my approach that get the ball to stick. I feel as though every green I hit with every club I hit, lands to hard and runs more than it should. Is it just ball trajectory and I need to work on follow through position?
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Spin comes from hitting the ball sharply (clubhead speed is directly related to speed) and pinching the ball between the club and the turf. That means you need to have produced sufficient lag AND hit the ball before making contact with the ground. The shorter the shot the more difficult it is to get spin because you loose clubhead speed. Full wedges can back up but a short range lob shot has little to no spin on it.
 
RxGus said:
That was an E6.
If I had hit a Penta I would have been 4-5 feet away and turned a birdie into a par.
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Gotcha! I think you would have still made a birdie but the other was a gimmie birdie for sure even though we made you putt it. :act-up:
 
cj3ap2 said:
I'd say this is true and leads this 20hc to his question: how do you generate spin on greenside shots?

Around the greens i usually chip/pitch by playing the ball back in my stance, feet closer together, slight forward press and i accelerate through the shot, and i think i've never generated any backspin, i'm sure there's something (more likely mutliple somethings) i'm missing?
I have been watching and reading all sorts of golf tips that i've been finding this winter including a spin tip that tells me to keep the clubhead low and short on the follow through, i've been trying that on my carpet (which is very thin and hard for reference) and been noticing some success, but until the snow melts I won't know for sure.

Same thing for full shots, i have full cavity backs so I assume i won't be able to generate nearly as much backspin as I could with blades, but I don't know how to make swings on my approach that get the ball to stick. I feel as though every green I hit with every club I hit, lands to hard and runs more than it should. Is it just ball trajectory and I need to work on follow through position?
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Sounds like you have the right idea. The ball doesn't stop dead. You're looking for a slight check up, that allows for a smooth controlled roll out. The ball matters for these shots in my opinion. I've played the hot bite, but not enough to comment other than a full wedge shot peels off cover.

I like the yellow Zstars and ProV1s for greenside spin.

Kevin
 
RxGus said:
Spin comes from hitting the ball sharply (clubhead speed is directly related to speed) and pinching the ball between the club and the turf. That means you need to have produced sufficient lag AND hit the ball before making contact with the ground. The shorter the shot the more difficult it is to get spin because you loose clubhead speed. Full wedges can back up but a short range lob shot has little to no spin on it.
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Thanks. I've heard some variation of the hitting the ball sharply to trap it before, but you're explanation puts it in a way that makes more visual sense to me, if that makes sense.
 
I think with the irons I was playing up to a couple weeks ago, I could use almost any level of spin ball and been successful (and did play a range of balls during that time), but with these new irons that flight it much lower, I really do use the spin more to hold the greens. The spinnier balls do allow you to pull off short sided green side shots better as well but can also suck you in to trying a shot that can harpoon your score on that hole.

What was said earlier is a great self evaluation: if you are coming up short on the majority of approach shots, then you aren't doing you or your pocketbook much good by playing a Penta TP or ProV1. Even more so if you're hitting your drives 40 yards sideways.

Right now, I think my best scoring ball is either the B330 or the Srixon Z Star X. They both have urethane covers which help greenside spin and approach spin, but they don't have ridiculous amounts of spin like the Penta or ProV1 so that the ball is generally hitting the green and sticking right there, not backing up 20 feet off the front. Although, I must admit, I do enjoy playing the Penta, because it is fun to pull the string and you can do some ridiculous things with the spin on that ball. But my scoring is not as good with it, admittedly.
 
Esox said:
Sounds like you have the right idea. The ball doesn't stop dead. You're looking for a slight check up, that allows for a smooth controlled roll out. The ball matters for these shots in my opinion. I've played the hot bite, but not enough to comment other than a full wedge shot peels off cover.

I like the yellow Zstars and ProV1s for greenside spin.

Kevin
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I understand, i just don't know how to do it. As for the ball, i just started playing the hx bite towards the end of the year last year when i really started figuring out my swing and i liked the control it gave me for my mediocre game, i'll play provi's on occasion but i really shouldn't because i don't generate enough clubhead speed (i generate a decent amount of clubhead speed, it's getting better as my swing becomes more fundamentally sound, but it's still not there for the prov to be the best fit)

I was just wondering how to swing to generate that kind of trajectory and spin on shots, instead of just hitting balls that land like they're on concrete. the visual RxGus gave me of lagging the club (while accelerating through the ball) to trap it between the club and the turf is something that makes sense to me in a way that i've never heard it before whenever i've researched how to generate backspin.
 
Gus is right about the lag and hitting down somewhat on the ball, but the "trapping" is more of misnomer. It should feel like you're trapping the ball, but the ball does not get pushed into the turf. There are videos out there that show a golf ball instantly starts to climb up the face of the club at contact due to the loft of the club and grooves in the face.

Kevin
 
Esox said:
Gus is right about the lag and hitting down somewhat on the ball, but the "trapping" is more of misnomer. It should feel like you're trapping the ball, but the ball does not get pushed into the turf. There are videos out there that show a golf ball instantly starts to climb up the face of the club at contact due to the loft of the club and grooves in the face.

Kevin
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Exactly, thanks for addressing that. I was actually trying to find a picture to explain the concept a little better.
Initial contact needs to happen below the equator of the ball and in a downward swing path. If you hit above the equator you get the dreaded skull. If you hit with a flat/upward swing path you get a high shot but very little spin. This is the feeling of "helping" the ball that so many pro's warn about.
 
The course I play has very small greens and soft approaches. This means landing short and running the ball on is not very effective. I am not a long hitter but can spin chip shots IF I play a ball that will respond. IMHO most balls do not spin like the ProV1 and some other "high end" balls.

Since I loose very few balls I am not overly concerned with the cost and will continue to play the ball that I think gives me the best chance to score.
 
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