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Thread: Harrison Shotmaker - THP Preview

  1. #361
    Aspiring Golfer coolbreeze's Avatar
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    Are you suggesting in your release above that the shotmaker is so good that if tour players got their hands on it, that it would shift the balance of power on the PGA tour? That might be one of the craziest things I have ever heard. If a tour player wanted to get their hands on it, they easily could, and if it really was game changing and could help these players drop strokes and win tournaments, you don't think they would all have them in their shafts?

    I'm sorry but this makes no sense at all.
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  2. #362
    Mini Tour Player smgoldstein's Avatar
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    I have not tried the Shotmaker so I can not chime in about its performance. I just don't understand the company's policy towards tour pros. Not making it available? Makes no sense to me. Doesn't pass the smell test.

  3. #363
    Major Champion Dr. Teeth's Avatar
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    Curious!!!
    In my Recoil Standbag
    Driver: Classic 10.5* w/ Black 72S
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    Hybrid: Mashie TM3
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    "Let your body support the swinging of the instrument." Jim Flick

  4. #364
    Major Champion Dr. Teeth's Avatar
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    As many of you who have been following the Shotmaker know I have been playing/reviewing one for a few months now. I have gotten LM data on these twice before, but I decided to go once more and compare the F flex and G flex along with the Nunchuck shaft (info about the Nunchuck will be on the appropriate thread). To give a little recap. I am currently playing the Diamana ahina in X flex which was fit for me by the great people at TaylorMade's The Kingdom. Ii was asked by a third party (not Harrison or THP) to provide feedback on the Shotmaker and so I called Harrison to see what they would recommend for me. I first was recommended by Harrison to get the E flex. It was pretty apparent to me that the E Flex was doing little or nothing for me and so I called Harrison and asked them a second time and this time they recommended to try the F Flex. The F Flex is the insert that I have taken and gotten LM data in and according the the data it was beneficial for me. I became curious to see how the G Flex insert would compare and so I obtained one and wanted to compare the two inserts head to head.

    This is where we are now and I have plenty of great info to share. I hit 8 shots with each option and threw out the two worst swings and so I was left with 6 useable swings for each setup. Both the F and G flexes were tested with the provided counterweights while the original driver was used without any back weights or anything (I add this only because many of you know that I often back weight my clubs, but I wanted this test to be as most golfers would play the clubs). I also decided to test out the Shotmaker in my 3 wood, but this test was only done with the F flex Shotmaker (the reason why I didn't test the G insert in my 3W will be explained later). I feel that lately my driver swing has been pretty good and I have seen fairly consistent results as of late so I was especially excited for this test as I expected that it would be the most useful and telling of all of my launch monitor sessions. I feel that this expectation was met. Here are some of the comparisons that I did and I will provide some commentary.

    R11 Driver set at 8.5* with Diamana ahina X flex shaft






    R11 3 wood 14* with 80 g Diamana Kai'li X flex shaft






    One of Harrison's claims is that the Shotmaker will reduce spin, as you can see from my numbers this does not always appear to be the case for me, at least in the backspin department. You can see that with the 3W this is the case, the Shotmaker appears to drop my spin by about 500 rpms, however with the driver my spin actually increased with the Shotmaker inserted. I do want to have full disclosure as this is not as cut and dry as that. If you look closer to my swing data you will see that my swing path with my driver was more out-to-in (more negative value) with the Shotmaker. This is my swing flaw and conversely my swing was less out-to-in when testing the Shotmaker in my 3w. An out-to-in swing will typically produce a fade/slice and therefore more spin. Now as you can see the Trackmans do not provide sidespin data, but I can tell you (and you can see from the desperation and ball flight data) that I do indeed see a reduction in sidespin. What are larger fades/slices without the Shotmaker are less pronounced with the Shotmaker. And from the data I collected you can see that the G Flex Shotmaker in my driver and the F flex in my 3W did indeed decrease my shot dispersion, however, the F Flex in my driver did not appear to give me any benefit despite what I have experienced in the past. The fact that the G Flex did decrease my dispersion is impressive considering that in the case of my driver I actually put a poorer swing on the ball, but got a better result when I was using the Shotmaker.

    Now another claim that is made by Harrison is that the Shotmaker has an "insignificant effect on trajectory". I would have to say false on this as as you can see in my driver the Shotmakers dropped my vertical launch angle by 1.9* (F Flex) and 1.5* (G Flex) and decreased my maximum ball height by 5.5 yards and 5.1 yards respectively for my driver and 1.2* and 8.9 yards with my 3W. Most of which I would consider significant. Interestingly enough dislike this drop in trajectory, I did not see a significant change in my carry yards with any of the clubs. Another claim that Harrison makes is that the Shotmaker does not significantly increase stiffness. I am in the process of getting solid data on this, but as far as feel goes (I know "feel" is very subjective) I do feel that the Shotmaker makes the shaft feel stiffer.

    Now, to discuss why I was only able to test the F flex in my 3W. As I stated before, I have been playing with the F flex for awhile now and I have out it in and taken it out several times without any issue. I got the G flex and have only removed 5 or 6 times and now I can't remove it at all because one of the main pieces of the Shotmaker came apart and try as I did I could not get the insert to come out. Here is a picture of what the Shotmaker looks like. Here is the price that came apart. As you can see this is the price that has the threads which allow for the removal of the Shotmaker and so I am stuck without a way to remove the main price from inside my shaft. It ticks me off cause now I am going to have to spend time and most likely money to remove the Shotmaker and I really hope that I am able to do so without breaking the inset or harming my shaft.

    This is what the Shotmaker looks like.



    This is what came out of the Shotmaker. So as you can see the main portion of the insert is stuck in the shaft.



    Once I am able to remove the Shotmaker from my shaft, I will be visiting my friend who is a club fitter and has developed a machine that is able to profile any shaft and determine its relative stiffness. He and a few other fitters are. In the process of creating a database of the many different shafts available so they are able to know the relative stiffness of one shaft vs another. I will have him profile my shaft without and then with the two different Shotmaker inserts in them to get some solid data on whether the Shotmakers actually do increase stiffness or not.

    Overview:
    From the LM data I obtained it does appear that the Shotmaker G Flex does in fact decrease my overall dispersion without sacrificing distance. It did not reduce my backspin numbers with my driver (I touched on this above), however I did see a reduction in my spin numbers when it was put into my 3W (again I addressed this above). The Shotmaker definitely dropped my trajectory, however, my carry numbers remained the same despite this drop in launch angle and maximum ball height. For me the Shotmaker (especially the G flex) does change the feel of the shaft and not in a good way, it feels like it is stiffer and I don't feel the loading and unloading of the shaft that I normally feel. The real question is am I going to keep using the Shotmaker? I have a hard time making a good argument for not using it. Each time I have taken the Shotmaker and got data on it it has shown a definite improvement in my dispersion. This time the F Flex did not show really any improvement in my driver, as it has other times, but the G Flex in my driver and the F flex in my 3W definitely showed a decrease in shot dispersion without sacrificing in the way of distance. If I can ever get the G flex out of my driver shaft I will be fixing it and putting it back in.
    Last edited by Dr. Teeth; 10-14-2011 at 12:48 PM.
    In my Recoil Standbag
    Driver: Classic 10.5* w/ Black 72S
    Fairway: RBZ Tour 3W
    Hybrid: Mashie TM3
    Irons: i20 4-9 w/ C-Tapers
    Wedges: 46*, 50*, 54* & 58*
    Putter: GoLo S
    Ball: Hex Black Tour
    "Let your body support the swinging of the instrument." Jim Flick

  5. #365
    Major Champion Dr. Teeth's Avatar
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    Sorry, I am in the process of making the images better. I did all of this on Tapatalk and uploading the images to Flickr right now. Check back in a bit for better images.
    In my Recoil Standbag
    Driver: Classic 10.5* w/ Black 72S
    Fairway: RBZ Tour 3W
    Hybrid: Mashie TM3
    Irons: i20 4-9 w/ C-Tapers
    Wedges: 46*, 50*, 54* & 58*
    Putter: GoLo S
    Ball: Hex Black Tour
    "Let your body support the swinging of the instrument." Jim Flick

  6. #366
    Master Painter Hawk's Avatar
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    Interesting stuff, Doc. Very thorough write-up as well.

    Can you tell me (on the charts) which number indicates your average dispersion? I'm not totally familiar with what I'm looking at.
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  7. #367
    Major Champion Dr. Teeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Interesting stuff, Doc. Very thorough write-up as well.

    Can you tell me (on the charts) which number indicates your average dispersion? I'm not totally familiar with what I'm looking at.
    There is no numerical value on the charts that represents average dispersion, however, there is the Carry SIDE and Total SIDE which represent what the average from the center is. A negative value is right of center and positive is left of center. The dispersion data is obtained mostly from the graphical representation on the slide that is labeled dispersion. It is more visual.
    In my Recoil Standbag
    Driver: Classic 10.5* w/ Black 72S
    Fairway: RBZ Tour 3W
    Hybrid: Mashie TM3
    Irons: i20 4-9 w/ C-Tapers
    Wedges: 46*, 50*, 54* & 58*
    Putter: GoLo S
    Ball: Hex Black Tour
    "Let your body support the swinging of the instrument." Jim Flick

  8. #368
    Master Painter Hawk's Avatar
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    It appears that you were about 4-5 yards closer to center (on different sides of center) on average with the Shotmaker?
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  9. #369
    @omgSandraGal! scrubs's Avatar
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    Nice presentation there, Dr. Teeth. I guess the real issue for me is, after trying 3 different models of these to find the right one, are the "improvements" really significant enough to be worth the expense (and alteration in feel)? Looking at your scatterplot of shots for the driver, your worst misses with the SM in were worse than without it, and the actual numerical differences are slight. Glad it works for you, but I don't think I'll be getting one (or three) any time soon.
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  10. #370
    Major Champion Dr. Teeth's Avatar
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    This was the case only with the 3W (4 yards closer to center on carry) and the G flex (4 yards closer on carry). With the F flex there was no improvement in this category. In fact the dispersion with the F flex is poorer than without the Shotmaker.
    In my Recoil Standbag
    Driver: Classic 10.5* w/ Black 72S
    Fairway: RBZ Tour 3W
    Hybrid: Mashie TM3
    Irons: i20 4-9 w/ C-Tapers
    Wedges: 46*, 50*, 54* & 58*
    Putter: GoLo S
    Ball: Hex Black Tour
    "Let your body support the swinging of the instrument." Jim Flick

  11. #371
    Major Champion Dr. Teeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrubs View Post
    Nice presentation there, Dr. Teeth. I guess the real issue for me is, after trying 3 different models of these to find the right one, are the "improvements" really significant enough to be worth the expense (and alteration in feel)? Looking at your scatterplot of shots for the driver, your worst misses with the SM in were worse than without it, and the actual numerical differences are slight. Glad it works for you, but I don't think I'll be getting one (or three) any time soon.
    This is an excellent question and the question at the heart of this. I have to say that watching my ball flight and feeling confident that the fade is less likely to turn into a slice is very significant to me. But you are dead on with your question.
    In my Recoil Standbag
    Driver: Classic 10.5* w/ Black 72S
    Fairway: RBZ Tour 3W
    Hybrid: Mashie TM3
    Irons: i20 4-9 w/ C-Tapers
    Wedges: 46*, 50*, 54* & 58*
    Putter: GoLo S
    Ball: Hex Black Tour
    "Let your body support the swinging of the instrument." Jim Flick

  12. #372
    Master Painter Hawk's Avatar
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    I think that's the question I'd ask too, especially at a $150 price tag, but it's a call each person would have to make.

    The one thing I'm still not clear on is how the Shotmaker is lessening the effects of swing path related issue (fade vs slice).
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  13. #373
    Major Champion Dr. Teeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    I think that's the question I'd ask too, especially at a $150 price tag, but it's a call each person would have to make.

    The one thing I'm still not clear on is how the Shotmaker is lessening the effects of swing path related issue (fade vs slice).
    This is also a good question. It kind of makes sense to me in my mind, but I would have a hard time explaining why I think it helps. I will try to find pictures or video that might help explain why I think it works. The surprising thing to me was when I went back an looked at the numbers, technically the swings that I put on the ball with the G flex Shotmaker were my poorest swings. My average swing path was more out-to-in than my other swings and my club face was more open, yet my results were better. This was very interesting to me.
    In my Recoil Standbag
    Driver: Classic 10.5* w/ Black 72S
    Fairway: RBZ Tour 3W
    Hybrid: Mashie TM3
    Irons: i20 4-9 w/ C-Tapers
    Wedges: 46*, 50*, 54* & 58*
    Putter: GoLo S
    Ball: Hex Black Tour
    "Let your body support the swinging of the instrument." Jim Flick

  14. #374
    Master Painter Hawk's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing all of that, Dr T. I know you put a lot of work into it.
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  15. #375
    Ex Club Ho 10YardDraw's Avatar
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    Wow Dr that was a great write up! Thanks for the hard work and data! As you know I really feel that the shotmaker reduced my sidespin in my driver quite a bit, only problem was it started rattling really bad so I sent it back, if and when they get one that fits my shaft better I will be putting one back in it.
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