Stock PW vs. Aftermarket PW

coolbreeze · Apr 24, 2011

tnc200 said:
Bump and run is a chip. What does the loft of a chipping tool have to do with a pitch anyway?

Is it? So if I hit a bump and run from 80 yards because thats the best play from where I am, then I'm chipping from 80 yards? You are very hard and fast on your definitions, it could be a chip shot from in close, or it could be a pitch shot from further away, or it could be its own shot "a bump and run". I don't care really, they are all just labels for the shots we play.

tnc200 · Apr 24, 2011

I'm not trying to stir anything up, I just think the link posted above does have it's merits. As a guy who might be in the market for a set of clubs the manufacturers may want to know some guys agree.

JB · Apr 24, 2011

tnc200 said:
Bump and run is a chip. What does the loft of a chipping tool have to do with a pitch anyway?

coolbreeze said:
Is it? So if I hit a bump and run from 80 yards because thats the best play from where I am, then I'm chipping from 80 yards? You are very hard and fast on your definitions, it could be a chip shot from in close, or it could be a pitch shot from further away, or it could be its own shot "a bump and run". I don't care really, they are all just labels for the shots we play.

Well said CB.

All4's · Apr 24, 2011

Fourputt said:
If as you say the PW is still a PW because the Wilson still launches at the same trajectory at 42° as mine does at 47° (which I still dispute), then it only makes sense in the original context of this thread to stay with set-matched wedges.

Exactly. I was trying to convey this but didn't do it as well. I disagree that flights are constant. If anything there is greater variation in flights than ever before. So, since the game is played in yards, it most logical to make that that the constant.

EDIT: and to echo JB's earlier statement I find the debate comical. But just from the opposite perspective. I just can't imagine seeing delofted clubs as a positive for consumers or the game. But hey, different strokes for different folks. Whatever helps you post the best score. I

coolbreeze · Apr 24, 2011

All4's said:
Exactly. I was trying to convey this but didn't do it as well. I disagree that flights are constant. If anything there is greater variation in flights than ever before. So, since the game is played in yards, it most logical to make that that the constant.

Why does there have to be a constant, even if one could be had? There is no reason why every 8 should go the same distance off the same swing. With all the different shaft and head options out there what you propose is impossible. Some play with a lot of spin, some not so much, some have a high ball flight, some low, it makes no sense at all to do what you are proposing.

All4's · Apr 24, 2011

coolbreeze said:
Why does there have to be a constant, even if one could be had? There is no reason why every 8 should go the same distance off the same swing. With all the different shaft and head options out there what you propose is impossible. Some play with a lot of spin, some not so much, some have a high ball flight, some low, it makes no sense at all to do what you are proposing.

To maintain consistency in your bag. Otherwise changing iron sets becomes disruptive to your hybrids and wedges as previously stated. $$$

plainbucknasty · Apr 24, 2011

I have always used my stock pw and had vokey 58 and 54 , but right now I have the VR combo set with 8 9 pw forged blades and just got VR forged sand 54 and 58 lob wedges so all my wedges match and I really like that. Willl definitely have pw sw lw that match from here on out.

Badger_Golfer · Apr 24, 2011

I personally use the stock PW. IMO, you need to be careful if you are going to say that a PW must be 47* because you are overlooking a key factor. If a company can design irons that give a higher launch and could give you the same trajectory but more distance (like JB said), whats so wrong about that?
It is kind of annoying that you need to get a different gap wedge in order to bridge the gap and it is annoying that you need to relearn how far you hit each club but thats all part of getting a new set of clubs.

Fourputt · Apr 24, 2011

JB said:
Why is 47* a PW?

What inspired that comment? I never disputed that you can call any club you want what ever you want to call it. My parenthetical modifier was that I dispute your contention that, all else being equal, they can achieve the same trajectories despite having a 5° different face angle and both being called PW's. His PW loft is halfway between my 8I and 9I, but I really don't care what he calls it.

I'm not even trying to argue tradition here. I never even knew what lofts any of my irons were until about 5 or 6 years ago, and I didn't care. I knew how far I hit them, and I had a fair idea of the trajectory I hit them on, and that is all the matters in the end anyway.

JB · Apr 24, 2011

Fourputt said:
What inspired that comment?

Im genuinely curious. What makes your PW a PW?

Hawk · Apr 24, 2011

We should get the Di11 PW and a weaker one on the launch monitor.

Posted via Tapatalk.

JB · Apr 24, 2011

Hawk said:
We should get the Di11 PW and a weaker one on the launch monitor.

Posted via Tapatalk.

That is a good idea Hawk. We will have many sets at the THP Outing and Demo Day in a few weeks and we can let the launch monitor show actual data into ball flight. Not sure it will matter, but it will be a fun test nonetheless.

Hawk · Apr 24, 2011

I'm sure it wont matter. I'm assuming that the fact we've actually hit the Di11's doesn't either.

Posted via Tapatalk.

theslflash689 · Apr 24, 2011

for me it depends on the stock pw that comes in the set. I like a pw with low bounce/ cuts through the grass well. So if the stock pw has a fat sole (like the r9tp), then i prefer to get an aftermarket pw with lower bounce. However the t-zoids pro ii that I play right now has a true blade pw, which i love playing. So it all depends on how the club is shaped.

Lukey719 · Apr 24, 2011

theslflash689 said:
for me it depends on the stock pw that comes in the set. I like a pw with low bounce/ cuts through the grass well. So if the stock pw has a fat sole (like the r9tp), then i prefer to get an aftermarket pw with lower bounce. However the t-zoids pro ii that I play right now has a true blade pw, which i love playing. So it all depends on how the club is shaped.

Well said Flash. It all depends on the stock PW. The blades I play are awesome with the stock PW, but such like the old school RAC Ht's I used to hit had such a fat sole that I didn't like very much.

Fourputt · Apr 24, 2011

JB said:
Im genuinely curious. What makes your PW a PW?

It's a pitching wedge because it is a club designed for pitching the ball, as well as for full shots one club shorter than a 9I. I'm not sure how else you would define it. I use it for a lot of less than full swing shots, unlike my 9I which is almost never used except for full shots. It has a loft and trajectory which makes it handy many for such shots, along with my GW. I've seen sets which include a club which they call a 10 iron. I've never really been quite sure what that meant, and it didn't seem to catch on. Most pitching wedges these days are still in the 45 to 48 degree range. The Wilson at 42 seems to me to be a bit strong to still function in the role that a pitching wedge was originally designed for. I happen to like that mine is 47° because that is a handy loft for a lot of different shots.

JB · Apr 24, 2011

Fourputt said:
It's a pitching wedge because it is a club designed for pitching the ball, as well as for full shots one club shorter than a 9I. I'm not sure how else you would define it. I use it for a lot of less than full swing shots, unlike my 9I which is almost never used except for full shots. It has a loft and trajectory which makes it handy many for such shots, along with my GW. I've seen sets which include a club which they call a 10 iron. I've never really been quite sure what that meant, and it didn't seem to catch on. Most pitching wedges these days are still in the 45 to 48 degree range. The Wilson at 42 seems to me to be a bit strong to still function in the role that a pitching wedge was originally designed for. I happen to like that mine is 47° because that is a handy loft for a lot of different shots.

So for you the PW should be a transition club that is used for a lot of non full shots as well as full shots? Makes sense. In that case, I would think loft would play no role in mattering if a PW is a PW is a PW, as long as someone is comfortable with using it as it is designed to be used?

TC · Apr 24, 2011

Why is it that none of these "traditionalists" ever show up for outings or ever play golf with other THP'ers? Me thinks it has something to do with being a talker on the interwebs and less of a golfer. It's easy to fight the fight or make an argument on your side of the fence when you know that you'll never actually have to show up and hit golf balls in front of a bunch of strong lofted wedge freaks like many of us seem to be.

I'm tired of this conversation to be honest. It goes in the most redundant circles. Fwiw, I can hit my PW from 5 yards off the green to 140 yards away and I'm comfortable with all of them.

Sean · Apr 24, 2011

TC said:
Why is it that none of these "traditionalists" ever show up for outings or ever play golf with other THP'ers? Me thinks it has something to do with being a talker on the interwebs and less of a golfer. It's easy to fight the fight or make an argument on your side of the fence when you know that you'll never actually have to show up and hit golf balls in front of a bunch of strong lofted wedge freaks like many of us seem to be.

I'm tired of this conversation to be honest. It goes in the most redundant circles. Fwiw, I can hit my PW from 5 yards off the green to 140 yards away and I'm comfortable with all of them.

I wonder what the definition of a traditionalist is anyway. The game is hundreds of years old. How far back does a traditionalist go? Featheries? Wooden shafts? I've seen clubs from the mid-19th century that would make today's blades look like snow shovels. It's just a number/letter on the sole of the club. It doesn't change the fact that you still have to get the ball in the hole, and ultimately isn't that what this game is all about?

10YardDraw · Apr 24, 2011

TC said:
Why is it that none of these "traditionalists" ever show up for outings or ever play golf with other THP'ers? Me thinks it has something to do with being a talker on the interwebs and less of a golfer. It's easy to fight the fight or make an argument on your side of the fence when you know that you'll never actually have to show up and hit golf balls in front of a bunch of strong lofted wedge freaks like many of us seem to be.

I'm tired of this conversation to be honest. It goes in the most redundant circles. Fwiw, I can hit my PW from 5 yards off the green to 140 yards away and I'm comfortable with all of them.

hey bud what about 3 yards off the green lol, jk trying to lighten to mood a little bit.

tnc200 · Apr 24, 2011

TC said:
Why is it that none of these "traditionalists" ever show up for outings or ever play golf with other THP'ers? Me thinks it has something to do with being a talker on the interwebs and less of a golfer. It's easy to fight the fight or make an argument on your side of the fence when you know that you'll never actually have to show up and hit golf balls in front of a bunch of strong lofted wedge freaks like many of us seem to be.

I'm tired of this conversation to be honest. It goes in the most redundant circles. Fwiw, I can hit my PW from 5 yards off the green to 140 yards away and I'm comfortable with all of them.

Maybe it is because they are ashamed of their puny, girlyman wedges. It is funny if you think of the snl "pump you up" guys.

Lukey719 · Apr 25, 2011

JB said:
So for you the PW should be a transition club that is used for a lot of non full shots as well as full shots? Makes sense. In that case, I would think loft would play no role in mattering if a PW is a PW is a PW, as long as someone is comfortable with using it as it is designed to be used?

Well said JB. Your PW should be a club you are truly comfortable with for your full shots as well as your in between shots for pitching and such.

Fourputt · Apr 25, 2011

Sean said:
I wonder what the definition of a traditionalist is anyway. The game is hundreds of years old. How far back does a traditionalist go? Featheries? Wooden shafts? I've seen clubs from the mid-19th century that would make today's blades look like snow shovels. It's just a number/letter on the sole of the club. It doesn't change the fact that you still have to get the ball in the hole, and ultimately isn't that what this game is all about?

That's the same question that comes up when golf apparel is discussed. There are always those who are firmly on the side of tradition, but usually tradition is what was in style when they first got serious about the game. I guess the same tends to apply to wedges. My early sets had pitching wedges which were just one step from a SW. Nobody had ever heard of a gap wedge or a lob wedge. As I replaced my clubs through the years, the lofts got stronger and I was forced to consider a gap wedge to fill the hole between the PW and the SW. Anyone who starts the game now will consider a GW to be "traditional", while I see it as a fairly recent developement in the game. Tradition often depends on your perspective.

Sean · Apr 25, 2011

Fourputt said:
That's the same question that comes up when golf apparel is discussed. There are always those who are firmly on the side of tradition, but usually tradition is what was in style when they first got serious about the game. I guess the same tends to apply to wedges. My early sets had pitching wedges which were just one step from a SW. Nobody had ever heard of a gap wedge or a lob wedge. As I replaced my clubs through the years, the lofts got stronger and I was forced to consider a gap wedge to fill the hole between the PW and the SW. Anyone who starts the game now will consider a GW to be "traditional", while I see it as a fairly recent developement in the game. Tradition often depends on your perspective.

Very true. But again, when push comes to shove it's all about how many strokes it takes to get the ball into the hole. It really doesn't matter what loft one's club is.

JB · Apr 25, 2011

Fourputt said:
Just because they mark it as a PW, that doesn't make it a PW.

Fourputt said:
It's a pitching wedge because it is a club designed for pitching the ball, as well as for full shots one club shorter than a 9I. I'm not sure how else you would define it. I use it for a lot of less than full swing shots, unlike my 9I which is almost never used except for full shots. It has a loft and trajectory which makes it handy many for such shots, along with my GW. I've seen sets which include a club which they call a 10 iron. I've never really been quite sure what that meant, and it didn't seem to catch on. Most pitching wedges these days are still in the 45 to 48 degree range. The Wilson at 42 seems to me to be a bit strong to still function in the role that a pitching wedge was originally designed for. I happen to like that mine is 47° because that is a handy loft for a lot of different shots.

JB said:
So for you the PW should be a transition club that is used for a lot of non full shots as well as full shots? Makes sense. In that case, I would think loft would play no role in mattering if a PW is a PW is a PW, as long as someone is comfortable with using it as it is designed to be used?

Sean said:
Very true. But again, when push comes to shove it's all about how many strokes it takes to get the ball into the hole. It really doesn't matter what loft one's club is.

Well said Sean.

I knew as soon as this thread went up that we would have the 1st post that I quoted here. But in the end, it may have taken a while, but it appears that we got the definition by Fourputt of what he believes a PW is. Turns out it has nothing to do with loft, as long as it is used to pitch the ball and is one club shorter than the 9 iron its a PW. That works for me and does in fact show that his 1st post in the thread (quoted above) really is not the case.