Overly difficult hole

maybe move up one tee then...
 
maybe move up one tee then...

Not if there is an easier par 4 somewhere else on the course, then it is alright to have a hard hole to balance it out.
 
BG,
Its just the same troll that keeps registering under different names. The computer system catches it every time, but JNRadio apparently likes THP so much that despite being sent away time and time again, he keeps coming up.

Its not worth it on your end.
 
Good to know JB. Thanks for the update.

I was curious why so many new forum members were coming into this thread and slinging venom.
 
#2 on my course is a 400+ (major) uphill dogleg left par 4 with bunkers infront and behind. To make it worse the bend is about 250 out and the fairway slopes to the right into the muck, and to the left is treeville. It plays as the hardest hole on the course. To be on the green in 2 is rare for all but the best or luckiest.

Is it a fair hole? Not for a bogey golfer. In the 100's of rounds I've played there, I've had maybe 3 pars on that hole and seen about 4 others.

But really, is it a fun hole? Kinda. It challenges you. And heck it's factored into the course/slope rating. So I don't see the big deal. I wouldn't want all par 4's to be that long and difficult I guess. I'm not a big fan of the 200+ yard par 3's either. But a few holes per course I don't mind.
 
But really, is it a fun hole? Kinda. It challenges you. And heck it's factored into the course/slope rating. So I don't see the big deal. I wouldn't want all par 4's to be that long and difficult I guess. I'm not a big fan of the 200+ yard par 3's either. But a few holes per course I don't mind.

Thank you. That is what I have been trying to say but lacked the words to say it.
 
I like the challenge. Otherwise I'd be content using my 3w for the full 18. Besides, holes like this give the longballer a chance to catch up.
 
I fully understand what BG is saying (I think). For all of us here, we make are livings doing something other than by playing golf, so we all want golf to be fun. My home course has a couple of holes that have been hot topics for nearly 40 years. Not because of length alone, but because of all the trouble involved. These holes have killed many a good round for me over the years, but at the same time, about not about to stop trying to beat them.

I've often thought about what changes I would make if I owned the course, but I've also thought (what our pro thinks), if these holes were changed, would we really like it easier? Not sure I would as much as I hate them. Moving up a set of tee's make them easier, but even I have some male ego built in. I guess I would really just rather complain while I continue to try and figure out a way to beat those two holes.
 
I enjoy long par 4s, and 3s. You have to bear down and hit good shots in order to score. I also like the short par 4 that requires placement off the tee. Mix it up but 420 is pretty standard now days.
 
I enjoy long par 4s, and 3s. You have to bear down and hit good shots in order to score. I also like the short par 4 that requires placement off the tee. Mix it up but 420 is pretty standard now days.

This sums it up pretty good for me as well. I like having to use all 14 clubs several times not just once per day.
 
Thank you. That is what I have been trying to say but lacked the words to say it.

I guess I'm kind of in the minority with liking long holes. But liquid said it best. There has to be a diversity of holes. Can't all be long, can't all be short.
 
To me, the hole has to give a reasonable expectation to reach the green in regulation.

In your OP you said the guy can reach it with driver 5 iron. I would consider that a reasonable expectation of reaching the green in regualtion.
 
For me its all about the total yardage of the course. I like to play up to 6500 but prefer 6000 to 6400 yards and the challenging 5800 yard courses are fun to. So some of the courses I play from the blue tees and some from the white. I don't mind hitting driver/5 iron at all and like was mentioned I love the courses that are designed to make you think and use almost every club in your bag. This afternoon I played a course and used every club except my M2 hybrid. Great thread!
 
People get too worked up over par. In reality some par 4's are really par 4.5's and some are 3.5's. They are fun to play regarless of what the par is. If it said par 5 on the card you wouldn't complain about the hole being too easy.

At one of our local courses we have a 470 yard par 5 that plays downhill and often in the summer you will have a short iron or wedge in your hand for your second.

The rub here is that you are ususally on a downhill lie hitting to a small green below you that slopes away so your third is usually trying to get back on the green from behind. You are so close you can taste the eagle but you cant get near the hole.
 
In your OP you said the guy can reach it with driver 5 iron. I would consider that a reasonable expectation of reaching the green in regualtion.

The guys said that was his yardages. He can't hit his 5 iron that well. His expectation is too have a good time on the golf course, and worry about score last. If he shoots a 5+ on a hole, as long as he has plenty of Coors Light he's ok. His idea is that as long as the hole is reachable from two perfect shots, it isn't too long.
 
In your OP you said the guy can reach it with driver 5 iron. I would consider that a reasonable expectation of reaching the green in regualtion.

He might just be good. This sounds like why slope rating exists. Certain holes are just much harder for bogey golfers (or avg length hitters). Usually because of length of the amount of trouble on a hole.

On the hole I describe earlier if you drive 300 and hit the fairway you can plan a SW onto the green. Pretty reasonable? But if you drive 215 which is probably a pretty avg drive for a LOT of people, you're need to hit another 200, which is probably the max range of your 3 wood if you drive 215.
That hole could really be fixed IMO by my course moving the mens tees up about 30 yards. People playing from the tips (the ones that should play from the tips, not the 20 year old flubber that thinks he should because he's a man now) usually can deal with that type of hole. But in my case, moving up another tee for regular play would trivialize the distance on every other hole by one. So I'm on the right tee, I just don't have a reasonable chance for a GIR on that hole.
 
He might just be good. This sounds like why slope rating exists. Certain holes are just much harder for bogey golfers (or avg length hitters). Usually because of length of the amount of trouble on a hole.

On the hole I describe earlier if you drive 300 and hit the fairway you can plan a SW onto the green. Pretty reasonable? But if you drive 215 which is probably a pretty avg drive for a LOT of people, you're need to hit another 200, which is probably the max range of your 3 wood if you drive 215.
That hole could really be fixed IMO by my course moving the mens tees up about 30 yards. People playing from the tips (the ones that should play from the tips, not the 20 year old flubber that thinks he should because he's a man now) usually can deal with that type of hole. But in my case, moving up another tee for regular play would trivialize the distance on every other hole by one. So I'm on the right tee, I just don't have a reasonable chance for a GIR on that hole.

That same kid is on his highschool varsity team, so now he needs to play blades. Regardless of skill.
 
That same kid is on his highschool varsity team, so now he needs to play blades. Regardless of skill.

20 years old and still in high school? That could explain why he doesn't understand what tees to play. Haha
 
Yeah, I realize what I did there. But that 20 year old WAS that guy on the high school varsity team.
 
When my game is tight, I like courses that average around 6,800 yds, give or take.

On such a course, there are usually about 4 or 5 par 4's over 400 yards and I think that's fine. Frankly, it gets real old real fast playing par 4's in the mid 300 yd. range all the time because every single one is the same; driver / wedge, driver / wedge, driver / wedge... that's just boring, man. But on the longer layout, there are par 4's in the mid 300's along with those 4 or 5 long par 4's and they even squeeze in a shorty now and then, not to mention that almost all of the par 5's are over 500 yds.

That kind of course is a challenge. It's interesting, it makes me use almost every club in the bag and it feels like golf. The "Bomb and Gouge" game may be great for the ego, and I DO play those courses as well, but to play them all the time and basically use 3 or 4 clubs all day bores me to tears.
 
The thing I love about my course is the variety in the par 4's. We have 3 really long par 4's (450yds-485yds), 4 that play less than 400 yards, and 3 that play 400-420 yards. I feel like I use every club in my bag during a round, as opposed to just driver then wedge in. Of course, my issue with the longer par 4s is the greens are way too severe but that falls into the discussion around design. The front of the greens are open, and only one of the long par 4s has bunkers around the green.

Where do you play Dankil? I am originally from Philly.
 
I think a 450 yard par 4 and beyond every holes or ever other just gets tiring and isn't fun. Unless the design of the hole get's changed. As in one's a dogleg and you have to play a cut or a draw or it's it has to carry water. In my opinion distance comes into play when the design of the hole influences your decision on what shots to make. As in I don't want every hole to be straight 420 yards with two fairway bunkers and two bunkers beside the green.

Just my two cents.
 
Personally, I think it is a nice change of pace to have some longer par 4's in there. I was playing the back tees last night just to get a different perspective and hit some shots I normally would not be able to and had a 418 par 4. Into the wind but still crushed a 3w 220 into it leaving me 200 to the green. Hit a solid 3 iron that left me short left and I chipped on and 2 putted for par.

I did not think it was overly difficult but rather a nice change of pace instead of tee shot - 8/9/PW every par 4.

If I did find a course overly difficult I would not play it often but would definitely keep it in the mix to really challenge myself.

memo to self

never play with mcook for money:D
 
memo to self

never play with mcook for money:D

Because he cheats?

mcook which one of your 5 strokes did you not count for your par on the par 4? :dohanim:
 
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