PGA Championship [Spoilers] TaylorMade R11 Iron Contest

Wow... you must have been a huge Hammer fan to compare the two.:laughing:

Broke on reality TV is in his future. He can only support his current bills living 3 years in the past for so long.
 
Broke on reality TV is in his future. He can only support his current bills living 3 years in the past for so long.
I kinda doubt it. It's funny what people wish for though.
 
everyone looks ruined at their lowest. He did hit the ball well (except off the tee) and a good number of his iron shots were good, they were just long by a long shot. His putting was the most consistant it's been in a while. I happen to agree with Brandel Chamblee when he talks about how Tiger is currently going through a swing change much like he has in the past, only it's been delayed by injuries and a couple of life altering events.

He was +3 today including some really dumb decisions (that were apparently made necessary by needing to go for broke according to the broadcasters. the bunker shot on 11, the fairway wood on 12, the shot out of the bunker at 18 are 3 that I recall just off the top of my head) which the field indicated wasn't a horrible score, and if he hadn't abandoned his thought process yesterday (if, as we are lead to believe, is what transpired and caused him to lose it. If that's the truth, i don't know, but assuming it is) he might have kept it together enough for a +1, +2 +3, which isn't bad and puts him in contention to at least make the cut, he makes better decisions down the stretch today and maybe shoots 1 over instead of 3. A great deal of if's there, and with the number of bunkers he hit this week it might be implausible, but I think it's more plausible than anything he's done on the course in the last 2 years.

Tiger still isn't anywhere close to contending for anything, but I think for the first time in a long time it appeared like he was starting an uphill climb instead of slidding further downhill. I think this is the first time in a while where he can see definitively exactly what he needs to work on, whereas lately it's been just a blanket of suck.
 
I know a couple of players have been mentioned, but I don't remember if Eldrick was one of them: how many people picked him in the contest?
 
Tiger still isn't anywhere close to contending for anything, but I think for the first time in a long time it appeared like he was starting an uphill climb instead of slidding further downhill. I think this is the first time in a while where he can see definitively exactly what he needs to work on, whereas lately it's been just a blanket of suck.

This is what I thought as well, until I started digging deeper. Do you know how many times this has been said over the last 2 years? I mean its almost after every single decent round he has, this is the thought process. Do we not remember his Masters return? The Chevron? The next Masters return? And there are 5 other times it was said as well.
 
I know a couple of players have been mentioned, but I don't remember if Eldrick was one of them: how many people picked him in the contest?

twenty six
 
This is what I thought as well, until I started digging deeper. Do you know how many times this has been said over the last 2 years? I mean its almost after every single decent round he has, this is the thought process. Do we not remember his Masters return? The Chevron? The next Masters return? And there are 5 other times it was said as well.

Well would we say the 2011 masters was a success for Tiger after his return.
 
Thanks.Now that you say that, I think you have already answered that question, 26 sounded familiar.
 
Well would we say the 2011 masters was a success for Tiger after his return.

I would have said it was for the most part. However it is kind of like calling the 2011 Open Championship successful for Phil. Back 9 let downs by both and if you ask them, the answer is no. But I think to fans it was. But then the next time out its a let down. I dont think we are anywhere near something that is a "comeback" to successful form as some expect and fans want.

Although its really a moot point, because he is not playing again until November it appears.
 
This is what I thought as well, until I started digging deeper. Do you know how many times this has been said over the last 2 years? I mean its almost after every single decent round he has, this is the thought process. Do we not remember his Masters return? The Chevron? The next Masters return? And there are 5 other times it was said as well.

I agree, and it something I thought about as well (because yes, it seems this discussion comes up every time he plays). To me, it's just what I saw and feel. It seemed to me over the past few years that even when he was in it, it never felt like he was really in it. What I saw from tiger the last two days were good iron shots with bad distances (fixable), better putting than it has been (leads me to think that he thinks that his stroke is starting to come back), and to me his big mistakes have all been along the same lines.

What that is, what I think from what he's said, what i've saw, is that he hasn't figured out how he can work the ball with this new swing. He doesn't know, doesn't trust how much each swing will cut or draw the ball. Today on 1 he tried to draw a fairway wood into the fairway starting down the bunkers on the right side, it drew maybe a yard and landed in the bunker. So on two, figuring he wasn't going to cut the ball that much, he tried to hit a cut with his driver starting on the left side going into the middle and hit a bige fade into the woods. He doesn't yet know how much the ball is going to work side to side and as a result he ended up everywhere but the fairway off the tee. Then when he hit iron shots, he hit them good but his distances were terrible that left him with difficult putts assuming he was on the green at all. From there I thought he putted well (aside from the what-the-hell-was-that stroke on 7).
To me, those things are indicators of a player who is on the right track to fixing things as long as said player puts in the time and effort (which we all assume he'll do) to do them. He can practice and figure out how much each swing is going to work the ball, he can figure out how far his new distances are. Whereas before I think he wasn't sure what the hell he was doing or how to do...although while he can figure those things out, we have no idea once he gets it going how it'll hold up under pressure. He always plays well at augusta, and while I think his putting is world's better now than it was at the beginning of the year and last year, he putted himself out of the masters on the back 9 and who's to say that won't happen again the next time.
 
Well would we say the 2011 masters was a success for Tiger after his return.
I wouldn't. A top ten would have been worthy though.
 
Well, almost all my dogs are out of the hunt. Day and Ryo....what the heck guys?
 
I kinda doubt it. It's funny what people wish for though.

Eh? Wish for? Hardly. Just the facts pal. His endorsements are dropping like flies, he has a 54 million dollar mortgage, and he wins nothing on the Tour. You do the math.
 
I agree, and it something I thought about as well (because yes, it seems this discussion comes up every time he plays). To me, it's just what I saw and feel. It seemed to me over the past few years that even when he was in it, it never felt like he was really in it. What I saw from tiger the last two days were good iron shots with bad distances (fixable), better putting than it has been (leads me to think that he thinks that his stroke is starting to come back), and to me his big mistakes have all been along the same lines.

What that is, what I think from what he's said, what i've saw, is that he hasn't figured out how he can work the ball with this new swing. He doesn't know, doesn't trust how much each swing will cut or draw the ball. Today on 1 he tried to draw a fairway wood into the fairway starting down the bunkers on the right side, it drew maybe a yard and landed in the bunker. So on two, figuring he wasn't going to cut the ball that much, he tried to hit a cut with his driver starting on the left side going into the middle and hit a bige fade into the woods. He doesn't yet know how much the ball is going to work side to side and as a result he ended up everywhere but the fairway off the tee. Then when he hit iron shots, he hit them good but his distances were terrible that left him with difficult putts assuming he was on the green at all. From there I thought he putted well (aside from the what-the-hell-was-that stroke on 7).
To me, those things are indicators of a player who is on the right track to fixing things as long as said player puts in the time and effort (which we all assume he'll do) to do them. He can practice and figure out how much each swing is going to work the ball, he can figure out how far his new distances are. Whereas before I think he wasn't sure what the hell he was doing or how to do...although while he can figure those things out, we have no idea once he gets it going how it'll hold up under pressure. He always plays well at augusta, and while I think his putting is world's better now than it was at the beginning of the year and last year, he putted himself out of the masters on the back 9 and who's to say that won't happen again the next time.

So what did you feel was taking place at the Chevron last year out of curiosity?
 
Real question now is...

will Tiger catch Jack? He is slowly losing time.
 
I heard/read Fred Couples is seriously considering TW for the President's Cup. I wonder why.
 
Eh? Wish for? Hardly. Just the facts pal. His endorsements are dropping like flies, he has a 54 million dollar mortgage, and he wins nothing on the Tour. You do the math.
I'm pretty sure if he can settle with the ex for 100+ mil and still build the house, he is gonna be ok money wise.
 
I'm pretty sure if he can settle with the ex for 100+ mil and still build the house, he is gonna be ok money wise.

And you'd think Latrell Spreewell making 15 mil a year would be the same. Or Evander Holyfield making 20 mil a fight.

Only time will tell.
 
So what did you feel was taking place at the Chevron last year out of curiosity?

That's a long time to remember back, but in general I just haven't trusted tiger's putting in a long time, he'd miss way to many medium length putts that I never felt like he was really in anything; even at augusta this year when he charged, he putted horribly on saturday and there (to me at least) always this uncertainity (since he came back) of whether he was going to make any putt he stood over that was never there before. The chevron is just that, the chevron, I thought it said more about the groove that gmac was in last year than tiger, or at least that's what I remember now about it.

I know it seems this is the same "he looked good" 1 step forward followed by 3 steps back conversation that's been had every tournament tiger has played in for 2 years, and I get that, his play has earned that apprehensiveness.

I just think his play is better and looked better than it has in a long time. It sounds like i'm making excuses by saying the course is really tough, but I think one can factor that in even just a little. I think everyone would say ryo has been playing well this year, was in contention last week, he missed in all the wrong places and got his butt kicked worse than tiger did this week. Jason Day was actually playing well for the most part this week, had two holes kick the crap out of him and he missed the cut. I think Tiger hit the ball better (except off the tee, which is always a serious concern), missed in all the wrong places and got his butt kicked.
 
I realize this is off the topic of Tiger, but does anyone think that the PGA and the USGA have switched personalities in the last few years? It used to be that the US Open was the tournament where par was the most important thing, whereas the PGA Championship had the reputation of the "most fair setup" of the 4 major championships.

Since Mike Davis took over course setup for the USGA, the course setups have gotten easier and more creative (drivable par 4's, etc.), and the scores have been a bit lower, with the most glaring example being at Congressional earlier this year. On the other hand, it seems like the PGA is going to tougher course setups with the winning score being closer to par. In particular, multiple players have criticized this week's course setup. One other note: I was at the Ocean Course at Kiawah Island last fall, and they had spray-paint on the fairways at that time where they were considering putting the fairway margins for the 2012 PGA, and the fairways are going to be half as wide as they normally are, which makes some of the bunkers that are normally in play completely out of the equation. If the wind blows down there with 20 yard wide fairways, the winning score there will be over par. Congratulations to the PGA, you now have the most boring major of the year, in addition to the least heralded major.
 
I realize this is off the topic of Tiger, but does anyone think that the PGA and the USGA have switched personalities in the last few years? It used to be that the US Open was the tournament where par was the most important thing, whereas the PGA Championship had the reputation of the "most fair setup" of the 4 major championships.

Since Mike Davis took over course setup for the USGA, the course setups have gotten easier and more creative (drivable par 4's, etc.), and the scores have been a bit lower, with the most glaring example being at Congressional earlier this year. On the other hand, it seems like the PGA is going to tougher course setups with the winning score being closer to par. In particular, multiple players have criticized this week's course setup. One other note: I was at the Ocean Course at Kiawah Island last fall, and they had spray-paint on the fairways at that time where they were considering putting the fairway margins for the 2012 PGA, and the fairways are going to be half as wide as they normally are, which makes some of the bunkers that are normally in play completely out of the equation. If the wind blows down there with 20 yard wide fairways, the winning score there will be over par. Congratulations to the PGA, you now have the most boring major of the year, in addition to the least heralded major.

I don't know. par won the u.s. open last year, and the weather was to blame at congressional this year (if you believe such things, the mowed rough and pin placements lead me to believe otherwise.) Whistling Straits played fairly benign until the wind kicked up on sunday, and that course is always ment to be a ridiculous challenge. The AAC is a par 72 playing as a par 70, so if you take that (holes 2 and 18 are ment as par 5's) into the equation the lead is more like -7 which isn't bad for 36 holes.
 
Congressional was overly micromanaged leading to it being the birdie fest that it was, imho. They cut the rough, adjusted Saturdays pins to easy placements, etc... I just think distance alone isn't enough of a challenge, they need to let rough grow out, and tuck the pins. The Canadian was a great setup. These guys are pros, hitting the fairway should be mandatory not an option. I'm liking everything but the leaderboard at AAC.
 
Congressional was overly micromanaged leading to it being the birdie fest that it was, imho. They cut the rough, adjusted Saturdays pins to easy placements, etc... I just think distance alone isn't enough of a challenge, they need to let rough grow out, and tuck the pins. The Canadian was a great setup. These guys are pros, hitting the fairway should be mandatory not an option. I'm liking everything but the leaderboard at AAC.

Pin placements don't always have to be diabolical to be challenging.
I do agree however that if you're going to call something "rough", it really ought to be. Something that's cut shorter than the grass on my front lawn can't be called rough.
I'll say one thing for the AAC setup, I like the fact that the bunkers are actually playing like the hazards they're supposed to be instead of as the usual "safe havens" for bad shots.
On the subject of bunkers, I'd love to see some British Open style revetted bunkers here in the states. I think they would add a new twist to American courses.
 
And you'd think Latrell Spreewell making 15 mil a year would be the same. Or Evander Holyfield making 20 mil a fight.

Only time will tell.

I find the guys you compare TW to comical. Sprewell, MC Hammer, wth is that about? If I had to compare TW to anyone, Greg Norman and Michael Jordan would be accurate. They both branched out into the sport through different avenues, clothing, design, management.
 
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