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LeBron to the NFL?!?!?!

fishymehta said:
I wasn't saying he was bad in any way, I was just saying that I hate it when people consider him to be the next "Jordan". There never will be another Jordan, especially not LeBron or Kobe. Yes, LeBron did carry the Cavs, but remember that he had no one else to pass to, which makes him seem a lot better than he would have been with any other solid players, like now. And also don't forget that LeBron is playing with 2 likely HOFers right now as well...
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I don't think Bosh will make it to the HOF, but that's what I'm saying. LeBron's team now is similar in surrounding talent to Jordan's, yet people jump down LeBron's throat for going to the Heat. It just annoys me. And I agree that there will never be another Jordan because of the huge will to win and determination. I do however think that LeBron is a better, more well-rounded basketball player. And he clearly has a physical advantage. I don't know if anyone will dominate physically the way LeBron does ever again. The only one I can remember doing it like him is Wilt. And maybe Shaq. But that's about it.
 
And now this thread is officially way off topic.

If we only had an NBA thread to discuss things like LeBron's abilities as a basketball player and team leader...
 
blugold said:
And now this thread is officially way off topic.

If we only had an NBA thread to discuss things like LeBron's abilities as a basketball player and team leader...
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Lockout sucks... I want it to end so badly.
 
Damaikis said:
Lockout sucks... I want it to end so badly.
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I did it! I found the one person who actually cares that the NBA is locked out!
 
blugold said:
I did it! I found the one person who actually cares that the NBA is locked out!
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What are you talking about, I HATE that the NBA is locked out. Why you ask? Because it has meant even MORE coverage of the NBA on Sportscenter, not less.

The only thing worse than Sportscenter talking about NBA games, is Sportscenter talking about no NBA games.
 
Damaikis said:
I don't think Bosh will make it to the HOF, but that's what I'm saying. LeBron's team now is similar in surrounding talent to Jordan's, yet people jump down LeBron's throat for going to the Heat. It just annoys me. And I agree that there will never be another Jordan because of the huge will to win and determination. I do however think that LeBron is a better, more well-rounded basketball player. And he clearly has a physical advantage. I don't know if anyone will dominate physically the way LeBron does ever again. The only one I can remember doing it like him is Wilt. And maybe Shaq. But that's about it.
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Eh, I agree, Bosh probably won't be HOF, but he will be close. Personally, I have no problem with LeBron going to the Heat. It was a smart move, where he has a chance to win (yet to prove it), and will most likely have a better overall team. People only hate because they think he's "betraying" Cleveland.

I don't know about LeBron being a better all-around player than Jordan. Yes, he does have the athleticism (who isn't more athletic than people in the 80s/90s?), but he just doesn't have the attitude necessary to be the next Jordan. Unlike Jordan, he is a selfish player, much more like Kobe, and can't get anywhere close to Jordan without a serious overhaul. Plus, personally, I find that Jordan was a much better mid-outside shooter than LeBron, although LeBron does own the paint and on D
 
wakeriderof87 said:
What are you talking about, I HATE that the NBA is locked out. Why you ask? Because it has meant even MORE coverage of the NBA on Sportscenter, not less.

The only thing worse than Sportscenter talking about NBA games, is Sportscenter talking about no NBA games.
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One thing is worse, Chris Berman talking about anything.
 
fishymehta said:
Eh, I agree, Bosh probably won't be HOF, but he will be close. Personally, I have no problem with LeBron going to the Heat. It was a smart move, where he has a chance to win (yet to prove it), and will most likely have a better overall team. People only hate because they think he's "betraying" Cleveland.

I don't know about LeBron being a better all-around player than Jordan. Yes, he does have the athleticism (who isn't more athletic than people in the 80s/90s?), but he just doesn't have the attitude necessary to be the next Jordan. Unlike Jordan, he is a selfish player, much more like Kobe, and can't get anywhere close to Jordan without a serious overhaul. Plus, personally, I find that Jordan was a much better mid-outside shooter than LeBron, although LeBron does own the paint and on D
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Ironically, the exact same thing was said about Jordan when comparing him to Bird, Magic and before them Russell, etc...
 
Damaikis said:
cut - And we can't forget that Jordan played with 2 future HOF'ers. LeBron IMO is already one of the greatest, and has the chance to be the greatest.
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Problem is this is a chicken or egg first thing, are they in the HOF because they were key players on a team that won so many titles or did they win tiles because they are HOF players. Pippen isn't in the HOF without the titles and MJ is with or without.
 
pjcedog said:
Problem is this is a chicken or egg first thing, are they in the HOF because they were key players on a team that won so many titles or did they win tiles because they are HOF players. Pippen isn't in the HOF without the titles and MJ is with or without.
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Well clearly Jordan is in no matter what. Personally I think Kobe shouldn't be, because I feel the Lakers could get by without him. IDK about LeBron though, as he got the Cavs into the playoffs some 5 times on his shoulders.

P.S. I love how off topic this thread has gotten — it went from LeBron to the NFL to LeBron vs. Jordan
 
JB said:
Ironically, the exact same thing was said about Jordan when comparing him to Bird, Magic and before them Russell, etc...
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They are are MLB hall of famers right
 
fishymehta said:
Well clearly Jordan is in no matter what. Personally I think Kobe shouldn't be, because I feel the Lakers could get by without him. IDK about LeBron though, as he got the Cavs into the playoffs some 5 times on his shoulders.

P.S. I love how off topic this thread has gotten — it went from LeBron to the NFL to LeBron vs. Jordan
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I cant stand Kobe Bryant. Absolutely despise him as a person.
But to question even remotely whether or not he is a HOF is ridiculous in my opinion.
He has 5 rings and his accomplishments stand on their own.
He was not Luc Longley showing up and collecting his ring by association. He was in many ways the heart and soul of most of those teams and the NBA as a whole.

Saying Lebron got Cleveland to the playoffs on his shoulders and not recognizing the talents of Bryant shows its a personal thing with the man rather than about his actual worthiness to the HOF.
 
Kobe is definately worthy of the HOF. IMO, he comes closest to Jordan in terms of competitive nature. Oh, and LeBron is not selfish. Not when averaging nearly double digit assists.
 
I'm not sure how you can knock Lebron for being anything but a great player. He's not all-time great, but right now, day-to-day, I'd say he's the best all-around player in the NBA. And yes, those early Cleveland teams were epically bad. Mo Williams was the #2 guy despite that brief hope that was Daniel Gibson. And yes, the East in those years were also quite bad, which is why ...

For a similar comparison, look at the 2006 Kobe-led Lakers that almost upset the on-fire fast-paced Suns in the first round. That Laker team had no business taking that series to 7 games (almost winning in 6, I think), much less even being in the playoffs. With out Kobe, that team was also epically bad. Lamar Odom was the second best player and he was still the ultimate head case at the time. Kwame Brown? Smush Parker? Luke Walton? Ronnie Turiaf? Yikes.

What makes both these examples interesting is not only how incredible the play of their two superstars, but also how well the coaches setup those teams to maximize their star's talent. Both Mike Brown and Phil Jackson did phenomenal jobs. Point is, none of these players or their accomplishments exist in a vacuum.

Do I think that either Kobe or Lebron are good guys, no, not so much (Kobe is worse IMHO but seems to be softening up these days), but I can't deny either one their current place in history. Kobe: One of the all timers. Lebron: Still trying, and having him seen him play multiple times, he is the most impressively athletic in the most ways of any basketball player I've ever seen.

Do either of them knock MJ off the mantle as the GOAT. Probably not. Kobe's window is nearly closed and I can't see him winning one or two more, and Lebron is not selfish enough to create those indelible moments at the end of games. I will say this with complete confidence: If Lebron can find HALF of Kobe's will and desire to improve, bring something new every year, he'd have a shot at GOAT.

All that being said, I really hope this lockout is resolved. Not because I care one way or the other about the players or owners as a whole, but far far too many people are already hurting by these games not being played. The arena workers, bar and restaurant owners, etc. etc. I know people who work for a couple of the organizations and one of my close friends works for the NBA in NYC - every day I fear seeing a post about needing to search for a new job.

(And I don't write any of this ignoring DWade, Dirk, CP3, Dwight Howard, KD or anyone else.)
 
Let me rephrase my views, because I think I, along with everybody else, am getting a little confused. I don't think either Kobe nor LeBron will ever outdo Jordan. Case closed. Neither have the attitude, nor the accomplishments of Jordan (although Kobe is close-ish). Personally, I absolutely HATE Kobe. He just has some attitude that I don't like, although it is starting to get better as he nears the end. I do NOT hate LeBron, although I do think he is a little bit of a publicity hound. I just wish he would fix his attitude, then maybe he could be a lot better. I think both guys are great players, though, and LeBron has athleticism pretty much unheard of before him. I think he will be a great player, probably HOF, but not close to what Jordan was. In conclusion.... do I like LeBron? Yes. Do I think anybody in the NBA right now will be the next Jordan? Not a chance...
 
d_in_la said:
Do either of them knock MJ off the mantle as the GOAT. Probably not. Kobe's window is nearly closed and I can't see him winning one or two more, and Lebron is not selfish enough to create those indelible moments at the end of games. I will say this with complete confidence: If Lebron can find HALF of Kobe's will and desire to improve, bring something new every year, he'd have a shot at GOAT.
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Him (MJ) being GOAT is actually quite arguable.
There are many players in generations prior to the late 80s and early 90s that can also take a shot at that claim.
 
JB said:
Him (MJ) being GOAT is actually quite arguable.
There are many players in generations prior to the late 80s and early 90s that can also take a shot at that claim.
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Such as??? I don't argue that there a guys with a chance, I just don't think they actually will/should​.....
 
fishymehta said:
Such as??? I don't argue that there a guys with a chance, I just don't think they actually will/should​.....
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Wilt, Russell, West, or Baylor just to name a few.
 
blugold said:
Wilt, Russell, West, or Baylor just to name a few.
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I know, but IMHO I just don't think they can knock MJ out of the GOAT title
 
fishymehta said:
Such as??? I don't argue that there a guys with a chance, I just don't think they actually will/should​.....
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How about Bill Russell? Played 13 seasons and is the most dominant to ever play the game. Has 11 titles and would have won a 12th had he not gotten injured. Was the first to bring the blocked shot back to the court. Stopped the "indefensible" Wilt Chamberlin, and nothing will come close to his rebounding and defensive capabilities perhaps ever again.

THose that usually anoint Jordan as the best ever unquestionably were not around prior to his dominant era.

The truth is that Magic was just as dominant in the 80s as Jordan was in the 90s, but did so differently. And for the 3 years of 84-86, Larry Bird was the best player to ever play the game.

Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double. Abdul Jabar was unstoppable. George Gervin was a scoring machine. Jerry West IS the NBA logo for his play. The fact is that people deem what they remember as greatness as the greatest ever because they cant imagine someone being better previously.
 
fishymehta said:
I know, but IMHO I just don't think they can knock MJ out of the GOAT title
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Im wondering if you saw Russell play?
Wouldnt the greatest of all time be the guy that carried the team to the most titles if its a team sport?
If not, wouldnt it be the guy that had the most points ever?
I mean dont get me wrong, MJ changed the game and was the best of his era, but so were so many before him in their own era.
People are quick to give the GOAT moniker because they did not see prior eras and want to be able to witness what was/is the best.
 
fishymehta said:
I know, but IMHO I just don't think they can knock MJ out of the GOAT title
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You are entitled to that opinion. I do agree with you that Jordan was the GOAT, but I also believe that it is open for argument.
 
JB said:
Im wondering if you saw Russell play?
Wouldnt the greatest of all time be the guy that carried the team to the most titles if its a team sport?
If not, wouldnt it be the guy that had the most points ever?
I mean dont get me wrong, MJ changed the game and was the best of his era, but so were so many before him in their own era.
People are quick to give the GOAT moniker because they did not see prior eras and want to be able to witness what was/is the best.
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Bill Russell played one season with 6 future HOFers. He hardly carried that team. He may have been really important, but it wasn't Russell and 4 slobs on the court.
 
blugold said:
Bill Russell played one season with 6 future HOFers. He hardly carried that team. He may have been really important, but it wasn't Russell and 4 slobs on the court.
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Nobody said he did not have other great players on his team. So did Magic & Larry and they are still looked at as some of the greatest. He absolutely carried that team, so much so that he was the guy that called the plays on the court and coached as well. Carrying a team is not always about scoring the most points. If that was the case, Wilt and Jabar would always be called the greatest ever.

Last time I checked, Jordan did not win without other HOFers either.
 
I think Lebron could effectively play the TE position in the NFL.
 
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