TaylorMade Golf - Leaders in innovation or leaders in self promotion?

As always, let's keep this a friendly debate

TaylorMade is arguably the leading manufacturing company out there today, especially when you look at metalwoods from a sales perspective. Is that because they are the best at innovation and harnessing technology? Or do you think it's because they are the best at making people believe they are?

I thought of some very good arguments on both sides of this debate, so have at it. Keep it clean!

Honestly, I truly believe that this is due to the Marketing they can put out. There's not a day that I don't see an ad for TM clubs. They have tour pros that can back up there clubs and it definitely helps them to put out more product. The demand gets bigger with each new line of products.
To add to this, the products are good because I have opened TM clubs and still have 1 lol. My R7 was my second driver I had. I loved it but eventually parted with it. I feel that they have good equipment, but the marketing does the talking in this case.

I think they have some great products truly I do, but I think that they are brilliant at marketing and making people think they are the leaders. The fact that they bought Adams for their technology says a lot to me, and as much as I like their products and the look of them the performance just doesn't measure up for me.

I think it's much of both actually.

The white sales and so does claims of being XX yards longer.

The RBZ line is long, I have seen it first hand when someone tries it and sees crazy length. Whether the lofts are jacked or whatever, club labeled 3w is going 15 yards longer and working for the golfer.

To me they are leaders in self promotion certainly. They have great gear, don't get me wrong. But the equipment that they put out isn't THAT much better than the other OEMs. They have done an amazing job at their marketing and getting their product out there in the hands of consumers. It reminds me of what Titleist has done with the Pro V1 line of golf balls. Is the Pro V1 the best golf ball? No. Similar applies with TaylorMade and their products in my opinion.

I think Cookie nailed it, TM bringing the white club face and making it household, and then the quality of their FW and Hybrids. TM's marketing is unlike any other, when you have the $$ to spend of marketing, it will make a difference.

mcook77 said:

I think it's much of both actually.

The white sales and so does claims of being XX yards longer.

The RBZ line is long, I have seen it first hand when someone tries it and sees crazy length. Whether the lofts are jacked or whatever, club labeled 3w is going 15 yards longer and working for the golfer.

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I think it is really a combination of both as well. Very similar to apple. They are innovative, but they are marketing masters. A lot of stuff that Apple markets in their commercials is technology that is available in other phones as well (noise reduction, voice commands, etc). However, Apple markets it much better so it appears that they are more innovative than they actually are. Hell, Apple didn't invent Siri; they bought the company that created it and implemented it into their devices.

TaylorMade is the same way. Innovative, but their marketing makes them appear even more innovative than they actually are.

As a TM geek I think it's all about the marketing. All the big names make great equipment and I don't think anyone of them is superior then the other. Their advertising is everywhere. Every other ad on YouTube is TM, it's all over Golf Channel, and I get an email almost ever day. They are a machine.

mcook77 said:

I think it's much of both actually.

The white sales and so does claims of being XX yards longer.

The RBZ line is long, I have seen it first hand when someone tries it and sees crazy length. Whether the lofts are jacked or whatever, club labeled 3w is going 15 yards longer and working for the golfer.

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Instead of posting the same thing, I'll just agree with Cookie.

I understand the idea that it is all marketing and that they market better than others. Ask yourself this question, if they are not the technology leader, who is then? Can any company make the claim? We hear all the time that it is not technology, just marketing. Well then what is technology? Im not sure it is, but I am also not sure its not. They were not the 1st to market with the adjustable driver. Not first with white. Not the 1st with adjustable loft. Different companies came to market before them (slightly) in each of these. Usually just a couple of weeks or a month, which means they were on the docket already of course.

Yet others are called technology and they are called marketing.

Both. Performance more so. I can claim I can do a lot of things. But if you don't back it up, people stop believing. TaylorMade has yet to give the consuming public a reason to stop believing.

blugold said:

Both. Performance more so. I can claim I can a lot of things. But I you don't back it up, people stop believing. TaylorMade has yet to give the consuming public a reason to stop believing.

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This is worded perfectly for me personally. If both weren't there, consumers wouldn't be there. I truly believe that.

A few weeks ago, I would have thought their marketing is clearly the reason. You see their ads every where, I get pop ups every 10 seconds when I go on golf websites touting TM; you go into a store and the salesman are practically forcing you to hit their clubs; it's an onslaught. Honestly, I shirked away from them for that reason.

After trying the R1, however, my POV changed. I really got along with the driver and after a couple months of searching for a new one, finally settled on the R1. Then when I thought about it, I actually have used quite a few TM clubs that I really liked in the past.

So bottom line for me is that they do a great job making quality products and then doing everything they can to make sure word gets out about it.

And no, I won't be frustrated next season when the R100 comes out and claims to blow everything else out of the water they have ever made.

They make some great products that much is for sure. I don't think that their products are as superior to the other OEM's as the sales numbers would have you think, and this is where the marketing comes in. They have instilled a desire in golfers to play what the pros play and it clearly works. As much as I know better I raise my eyebrows when I hear "xx" more yards and I want to try it out.

Do they make great clubs? Yep. Do they do a great job of marketing? Yep.

ArmyGolf said:

They make some great products that much is for sure. I don't think that their products are as superior to the other OEM's as the sales numbers would have you think, and this is where the marketing comes in. They have instilled a desire in golfers to play what the pros play and it clearly works. As much as I know better I raise my eyebrows when I hear "xx" more yards and I want to try it out.

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This is a great post. Similar to the Pro V1 with balls.

I think TaylorMade has the latitude to push their innovation (whether it works or not) because they have the marketing machine behind them. As I've said in the R1 thread, while the white head and war paint wouldn't be my first choice in design, there is a marketing brilliance there. If you see a guy on tour address the ball, you now know not only that it is a TaylorMade club, but which model it is. Out at the range, or out at the course, you're buddies are going to be able to tell the same thing, even without asking.

The one thing I would question about their current design and naming strategy is that they seem to be going after the younger demographics while hoping their name recognition gets older demographics to accept the paint schemes and the z-ier names. If anyone can make that work, it's TaylorMade, but some of those choices have turned off this consumer a bit.

I think it's mostly their marketing strategies and the commercials we see on TV; fun and whimsical with that planted seed that "club x" is going to make you hit every fairway and hit it further.
Honestly, I have bagged two different lines of TM irons (2.0 and R11) and love them both, but I don't think every line, in irons or woods, is the best out there. I can't hit a TM driver to save my life. I've bagged both the R9 and 2.0 drivers and couldn't hit a fairway the size of a parking lot. However, I have playing partners that have bagged about every TM wood made. Can they hit them better than any other or is it purely the marketing that gets in their heads? Having seen most of them play a lot of balls with them, I'd say they might do better with another OEM, but then again, I can't hit EVERY fairway with my current driver either.

I imagine it would be hard to tell without serious data and fittings what is best out there, but, in my opinion, I'd say over 50% of TM metal woods in bags I see today are purchased/used strictly based off marketing/looks/promises/claims/etc. I say this because I see lots of dudes that have a new set of irons or the newest version of "x" wood in their bag from TM and if any of the previous models they carried were of any use to the player, they'd bag them forever! How many players, outside of THP, do you know that swap out clubs like dirty underwear? They're either dying for the technology to give them the game they want, or they just have way too much money and want to have the newest and brightest in their bags. Meanwhile, I'll see guys swinging Ping G10s or the original Burner irons and killing the guys they're playing with using the latest and greatest.

Are they innovators? Sure. Are they ahead of other OEMs out there? I don't believe so. Isn't this why they purchased Adams? Do you see any TM design styles on those new Adams woods this year? They're spreading the TM mindset into another brand of clubs. Pretty good move, I guess. However, I think the other big dogs out there are doing just as well; simply going in slightly different directions in innovation and style. TM is like Titleist. Pay the money for the best and most commercials and have the top tour pros on staff and make sure people think they're going to improve, or at least beat their buddies, by playing their line of equipment.

With what I've seen in this short amount of time since the new lines came out, I think TM might be hitting R&D hard and heavy to keep up with OEMs like Callaway and Cobra who, I believe, have really stepped up and brought some serious heat to the game. I know this isn't a thread about other OEMs, but I really thought Cobra was in trouble until the last 12-18 months or so. Their new lines are amazing, as are those from Callaway, which I had a chance to play around with and test out in some form or other.

Hawk asked about the metal woods and marketing. Again, in my opinion, I think TM irons are far better than their woods, but that could simply be because I've never "agreed" with the shaft offerings in any of their wood lines.
But, I only took a couple of marketing classes in college, and I'm not a golf shop employee or fitter that can swing every club, so what do I know. I just don't think they, or any OEM, has the best of anything. Except maybe a certain line of putters...:wink:


PS I typed all that while the rest of you were posting, so some of this, I was ninja'd on.

They are the best marketed OEM right now, I don't think there is much of an argument against them. As far as technology wise, I think they up there. Yes they were no the first with the adjustable driver, but IMO they have stayed very true to the shaft version that came out. Nike came out right around the same time with the Dymo STR8 fit, but they have changed their hosel 4-5 times already since then. TM has had to make some adjustments to theirs but the design has really stayed true. The ATV wedges showed some new bounce technology, but the more I played around with them, the more I thought it was just marketing.

From the retailer side, TM does a brilliant job marketing. People come in with a desire to test their newest offerings, sometimes even without comparing them to anything else. I see more people who just want to find the right TM driver and not try anything else then any other brand.

However, the club needs to perform as well or the consumer will start to shy away from them. So in that light, the performance is there, while I don't believe it is miles in front of anyone else, the marketing may tip the scales in their favor simply by eliminating the desire to try any other product.

I think that they definitely push the envelope from a technology standpoint, and they are also good on the marketing side. Where I think that they really do well is they make you focus on what they are trying to doing from a technological standpoint. I think it's a harder sell for consumers to upgrade their equipment if they don't think that there is a big jump from the previous model (example: 913 metalwoods vs. 910 metalwoods). However, TM is really good at focusing on one thing on each product and promoting the heck out of that, even in things that don't end up working out for them. 2 examples of things not working out for them are the XFT faces in their wedges, and the "lugnut" approach that they had to the MB/MC/CB irons and R11 irons. With the irons, they really pushed that the "lugnut" (for lack of a better term) would help with the CG and sweet spot and all of that, but now it's gone from their current irons.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that on their clubs, there seems to always be a technological talking point that they can promote heavily, and they are also smart at making that talking point a buzzword with a catchy marketing slogan.

both, with a grain of salt...

you can't ignore their marketing and how good it is, and at least in the golf industry, i would venture out to say that they are very innovative in that respect. early on and still remain top contender in this area.

you can't ignore their technology in their products either. it's good, it works and people buy into it with proven results. is it as good as others? ehhhh, maybe. probably the exact same thing or less, but that's where their marketing takes over. their merge with Adams Golf helped out a lot too in that respect.
but were they the first to do a lot of these things? no, but did they do them better? they would have you believe so (see, facebook; Google; Apple)

arydolphin said:

I think that they definitely push the envelope from a technology standpoint, and they are also good on the marketing side. Where I think that they really do well is they make you focus on what they are trying to doing from a technological standpoint. I think it's a harder sell for consumers to upgrade their equipment if they don't think that there is a big jump from the previous model (example: 913 metalwoods vs. 910 metalwoods). However, TM is really good at focusing on one thing on each product and promoting the heck out of that, even in things that don't end up working out for them. 2 examples of things not working out for them are the XFT faces in their wedges, and the "lugnut" approach that they had to the MB/MC/CB irons and R11 irons. With the irons, they really pushed that the "lugnut" (for lack of a better term) would help with the CG and sweet spot and all of that, but now it's gone from their current irons.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that on their clubs, there seems to always be a technological talking point that they can promote heavily, and they are also smart at making that talking point a buzzword with a catchy marketing slogan.

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This is a good point. They take chances. xFT was a great example of that. Scratching it in my opinion was a bad move, because of the marketing tied to it, but that is neither here nor there. Each season they have a focus and market accordingly. The RBZ FW was the perfect example of that. And nobody markets colors like they do. Red, then white, then green and now yellow.

The colors are a crazy valid point. Always evolving, always done REALLY well IMO.

arydolphin said:

they are also smart at making that talking point a buzzword with a catchy marketing slogan.

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Absolutely, they got away with making Ballsier an attractive word in a tough old fashioned crowd with Ballz-ier. Brilliant !