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How do you handle rules violations?

wadesworld

wadesworld

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Since there's a rules question in the forum today, I thought I'd bring up this topic that always frustrates me when it comes up.

As some around here know, I'm a bit of a rules geek. Not because I want to be "that guy," but because something about the challenge of learning the rules and their myriad of application scenarios intrigues me. I enjoy seeing how a seemingly simple sentence is applied to a million different situations. I've even considered taking some rules workshops and volunteering as an official at some small-time tournaments in the local area.

Note that despite my enjoyment of the rules and my (typically) to the letter application of them to my own game, in a casual round, I could care less what others do. Want to kick your ball out of the trees into the fairway? Fine with me.

However, when it comes to my own tournament play, getting into a rules situation always frustrates me due to the negative stigma that can result.

If you witness a rules violation in a competitive round, do you (nicely) call the guy out? Or do you let it go for fear of being "that guy?" If the remedy is severe, like going back to the tee, do you enforce it?

In theory, 100% of the time, you should call out the rules violation. There are several reasons for this:

1) You need to protect the field. What if that guy wins by one stroke? Or even if he makes next-to-last place by one stroke? Your failure to bring up the rules violation has allowed an incorrect result.

2) You're required to tell a player if you see a rules violation and if you can do so before he makes his shot and prevent him from violating the rules, you should do so. If you fail to prevent a player from breaking the rules and it later comes out that you did so, you could be subject to penalty yourself, such as if you failed to mention a rules violation in order to try to have the player DQ'd.

However, we've all experienced holding our tongue because we didn't want to seem over-the-top about rules. There's also a bit of difficulty regarding practicality. If I see a player across the fairway about to take an incorrect drop, am I really going to yell out "STOP!" and hightail it across the fairway to stop him and inform him of the proper procedure, especially in a large tournament that is pace-of-play sensitive? Probably not.

Others may be reticent to call it out because they don't want to be wrong and be thought a double-jerk if they not only called it out, but also got it wrong.

A real example that occurred in one of my GolfWeek tournaments was a day that we were playing lift, clean and place. It was a winter day and the fairways were extremely brown, short and hard. A player I was playing with was not only lifting, cleaning and placing his ball, but in addition was using his club to brush up some grass to create a bit of a tee on which to place his ball. In this situation, I didn't call it out the first time he did it because I didn't witness the actual turf-improving, so I wasn't sure if what I thought happened, happened. The second time it happened, I did not stop him, but after he hit, I said, "Just so you know - fluffing the grass like that would be a rules violation if someone wanted to call you on it." He said he didn't realize it and then it didn't happen again the rest of the day.

I think that was the right way to handle it from a "lets be a good guy" standpoint, but to this day I wonder whether I impacted someone in the field by not stopping him or not insisting he penalize himself. With that said, being the always-wanting-to-a-good-guy that I am, I'm not sure I could ever bring myself to take such a hard line in a friendly competition that wasn't something like a state amateur event.

What are your thoughts? What situations have you run into? Have you ever wished you handled a rules situation differently?
 
I am so happy I haven't played in a competitive round where I saw something so egregious that I had to call it. Truth be told, the only competitive round that I was playing against somebody was with THPers in Illinois. I was playing with JuggerTron and Ragarm. No need to worry about their character. But the lawyer I played with...I should have kept a tighter eye on him...
 
In a tournament you need to call penalties on your playing partner. It's only fair to the other players.

After the thread that lead to this one, I'm going to try and take a rules course this winter if possible. I think that no matter how much one reads the rule book there is still more to learn.
 
I dont play in alot of tournaments anymore so its kind of hard to say. I would say, like you found out, there are many many people that dont know the rules. Hell im sure I dont know but 75% of them. So just talking to them and informing then should do the trick. Now if they continue to "do wrong" then id make it a point to talk to an official...
Knee capping should be allowed on cheaters and sandbaggers...lol
 
I am not sure I could call a penalty on somebody...I might ask them to explain their thought process and see if they realize the error, but that's about it.
 
You need to call them out on it because its is a competition. Thankfully most of the times it's happened to me the individual just didn't understand the rules. I was in a situation once that I witnessed someone moving their ball for a better lie and I did not say anything. It was a scramble and this person was no where near being in the running. Probably should have said something but I had a feeling it wouldn't have mattered with this guy.
 
Adam Hartzell said:
In a tournament you need to call penalties on your playing partner. It's only fair to the other players.

After the thread that lead to this one, I'm going to try and take a rules course this winter if possible. I think that no matter how much one reads the rule book there is still more to learn.
Click to expand...

In official play it is a must to call out a clear violation.
 
USGA rule 1-3.
If you see a penalty, and don't call or point out the infraction, are you, by being silent, agreeing to waive a rule?
If you silently agree to waive the rule, you may be DQ'd where in match play or stroke play.
Kind of a grey area.
 
kmanc said:
USGA rule 1-3.
If you see a penalty, and don't call or point out the infraction, are you, by being silent, agreeing to waive a rule?
If you silently agree to waive the rule, you may be DQ'd where in match play or stroke play.
Kind of a grey area.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the USGA rules book.
 
wadesworld said:
Since there's a rules question in the forum today, I thought I'd bring up this topic that always frustrates me when it comes up.

As some around here know, I'm a bit of a rules geek. Not because I want to be "that guy," but because something about the challenge of learning the rules and their myriad of application scenarios intrigues me. I enjoy seeing how a seemingly simple sentence is applied to a million different situations. I've even considered taking some rules workshops and volunteering as an official at some small-time tournaments in the local area.

Note that despite my enjoyment of the rules and my (typically) to the letter application of them to my own game, in a casual round, I could care less what others do. Want to kick your ball out of the trees into the fairway? Fine with me.

However, when it comes to my own tournament play, getting into a rules situation always frustrates me due to the negative stigma that can result.

If you witness a rules violation in a competitive round, do you (nicely) call the guy out? Or do you let it go for fear of being "that guy?" If the remedy is severe, like going back to the tee, do you enforce it?

In theory, 100% of the time, you should call out the rules violation. There are several reasons for this:

1) You need to protect the field. What if that guy wins by one stroke? Or even if he makes next-to-last place by one stroke? Your failure to bring up the rules violation has allowed an incorrect result.

2) You're required to tell a player if you see a rules violation and if you can do so before he makes his shot and prevent him from violating the rules, you should do so. If you fail to prevent a player from breaking the rules and it later comes out that you did so, you could be subject to penalty yourself, such as if you failed to mention a rules violation in order to try to have the player DQ'd.

However, we've all experienced holding our tongue because we didn't want to seem over-the-top about rules. There's also a bit of difficulty regarding practicality. If I see a player across the fairway about to take an incorrect drop, am I really going to yell out "STOP!" and hightail it across the fairway to stop him and inform him of the proper procedure, especially in a large tournament that is pace-of-play sensitive? Probably not.

Others may be reticent to call it out because they don't want to be wrong and be thought a double-jerk if they not only called it out, but also got it wrong.

A real example that occurred in one of my GolfWeek tournaments was a day that we were playing lift, clean and place. It was a winter day and the fairways were extremely brown, short and hard. A player I was playing with was not only lifting, cleaning and placing his ball, but in addition was using his club to brush up some grass to create a bit of a tee on which to place his ball. In this situation, I didn't call it out the first time he did it because I didn't witness the actual turf-improving, so I wasn't sure if what I thought happened, happened. The second time it happened, I did not stop him, but after he hit, I said, "Just so you know - fluffing the grass like that would be a rules violation if someone wanted to call you on it." He said he didn't realize it and then it didn't happen again the rest of the day.

I think that was the right way to handle it from a "lets be a good guy" standpoint, but to this day I wonder whether I impacted someone in the field by not stopping him or not insisting he penalize himself. With that said, being the always-wanting-to-a-good-guy that I am, I'm not sure I could ever bring myself to take such a hard line in a friendly competition that wasn't something like a state amateur event.

What are your thoughts? What situations have you run into? Have you ever wished you handled a rules situation differently?
Click to expand...

First of all I don't "call him out". I inform him that he has breached a rule (or even more preferably, is about to breach a rule - I would rather that I was able to stop him from making the mistake than to profit from it afterward). If needed I will explain his error. If he disputes it, I have two options. I will show him the rule in the book, which I always have in my bag, or I will explain Rule 3-3 to him so that he can exercise the option of playing a second ball, then take the case to the committee after the round is finished.

What I will not do is ignore an observed rules breach in a stroke play competition. In a match I may or may not speak up, and that too is a choice that an individual player is allowed to make, but only in match play. In stroke play, each player has an obligation to the rest of the field to not allow one player to gain an advantage through a rules breach.
 
I don't play competitively. So my answer to this is play it as you want it to lie.

Wanna fluff your lie? Go for it. Wanna drop two feet to the left of where you should? Why not make it three?!?! Did the ball move a little bit when you grounded your club? Meh... Put it back where it was!

Of course, as I said, I don't play competitively. If I did then I don't know what I'd do.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
 
Whip out the rule book. No really, I did this to a kid, and he raged. 10/10 definitely worth it.
 
wadesworld said:
However, when it comes to my own tournament play, getting into a rules situation always frustrates me due to the negative stigma that can result.

If you witness a rules violation in a competitive round, do you (nicely) call the guy out? Or do you let it go for fear of being "that guy?" If the remedy is severe, like going back to the tee, do you enforce it?

In theory, 100% of the time, you should call out the rules violation. There are several reasons for this:

1) You need to protect the field. What if that guy wins by one stroke? Or even if he makes next-to-last place by one stroke? Your failure to bring up the rules violation has allowed an incorrect result.

2) You're required to tell a player if you see a rules violation and if you can do so before he makes his shot and prevent him from violating the rules, you should do so. If you fail to prevent a player from breaking the rules and it later comes out that you did so, you could be subject to penalty yourself, such as if you failed to mention a rules violation in order to try to have the player DQ'd.


What are your thoughts? What situations have you run into? Have you ever wished you handled a rules situation differently?
Click to expand...


As far as points 1 and 2 yes. Do both. But be smart. Some guys are wound pretty tight when competing.

Rule 3-3 needs to be explained to everyone. Here, its on the hard card that everyone gets along with the local rules and their score card. Of course everyone ignores it and never reads it but its there. If you know Rule 3-3 bring it up walking down the first fairway. Ask if your group know it and how to apply it. Make sure to mention information on the rules is not advice - some people think it is. Doing that will kill two birds - first they will figure you know the rules pretty well and that usually takes the foot wedge and other instruments of cheating out of the game. Second of all, if they run into trouble they are far more likely to ask questions than do something penalizing if there is no one else around to ask.

There are two things that help avoid conflict on the course with rules problems. The first is to ask questions - get the guy talking and make it known you are there to help. Second is to put yourself on their side "I would hate to see you add penalty strokes for doing that" or something similar. Its hard for them to be angry when you are on their side. That should really help out.

The negative side of it all comes about when someone gets preachy or acts like Mr. Rules Guy. If there is a penalty use tact. If there is conflict, encourage use of rule 3-3, it takes the problem right out of your hands and you can let someone else deal with the problem.
 
I play in a weekly tournament series and have called a few dudes out on rules violations. I do it for the field not for myself. If I am expected to play by the rules, other people should be as well. If I am playing a casual round I don't really care what people do.
 
I don't play a lot of competitive golf, but I imagine you have to call any violations you see. I'm sure there are diplomatic ways to go about it.

I've been in friendly matches with buddies and one of them always grounds his club in the bunker. I told him he was doing it and he said he didn't care. I said that meant I got unlimited mulligans, penalty free. And that is how fast and loose we are with the rules.

I've played in a couple tournaments at my club and some of the guys are hawks about the rules. It has straightened me out, but some of the guys will watch other groups on the green, etc. just waiting to call something. It's fine with me since everyone should be in that environment.
 
I really haven't played any competitive matches, but I believe that I would let someone know that they were breaking the rules of golf if they did something wrong. I don't care if I am "that guy," its just the right thing to do.

I will even try to tell friends that I am playing with when they are breaking the rules during fun rounds. I'm not doing it to tell them that they need to adjust their score, but some know nothing of the rules of the game. I only do it to my friends though during fun rounds.
 
I caddied 1 day for my girl at her Q School outing and those girls were vicious with the penalty calling. The tension was higher because tour cards were on the line, but I learned if its a tournament, you call everything or warn them if they are about to commit a violation.

When it comes to my own playing which is just for fun, I try and stick to playing the ball as it lies. However, I'm not above moving my ball left or right when behind a tree or something that I can ricochet the ball off of and hurt myself or someone else. Last time I tried to punch out into a fairway from behind a tree, hit the trunk and got myself good in the shin. I'm out there for fun and not keeping score most of the time, so no more taking hero shots next to cart paths, through trees etc.
 
If it's competitive and money or a title is involved? Hell yes. I don't play in any tourneys or anything but I wouldn't expect a ref to not call travelling in a basketball tourney; and to be frank I don't see the difference bwteen the two.
 
I'm going to be "that guy" and point out that the correct phrase is "I could NOT care less" which means it is not important.

If you say "I could care less" it implies that you really do care.
 
Tedfroop said:
As far as points 1 and 2 yes. Do both. But be smart. Some guys are wound pretty tight when competing.

Rule 3-3 needs to be explained to everyone. Here, its on the hard card that everyone gets along with the local rules and their score card. Of course everyone ignores it and never reads it but its there. If you know Rule 3-3 bring it up walking down the first fairway. Ask if your group know it and how to apply it. Make sure to mention information on the rules is not advice - some people think it is. Doing that will kill two birds - first they will figure you know the rules pretty well and that usually takes the foot wedge and other instruments of cheating out of the game. Second of all, if they run into trouble they are far more likely to ask questions than do something penalizing if there is no one else around to ask.

There are two things that help avoid conflict on the course with rules problems. The first is to ask questions - get the guy talking and make it known you are there to help. Second is to put yourself on their side "I would hate to see you add penalty strokes for doing that" or something similar. Its hard for them to be angry when you are on their side. That should really help out.

The negative side of it all comes about when someone gets preachy or acts like Mr. Rules Guy. If there is a penalty use tact. If there is conflict, encourage use of rule 3-3, it takes the problem right out of your hands and you can let someone else deal with the problem.
Click to expand...

I think that's some good advice on how to do what you're supposed to do and hopefully keeping things on a positive note.
 
Smithfaced said:
I play in a weekly tournament series and have called a few dudes out on rules violations. I do it for the field not for myself. If I am expected to play by the rules, other people should be as well. If I am playing a casual round I don't really care what people do.
Click to expand...

This ^^^^^^
 
I'm not always "that guy" but when my money is out of my wallet, and there's a chance of me winning, or placing...then I'm that guy. Even if I'm NOT in the running, if my money is on the table, I'm that guy. Golf is about integrity, and if you don't have that, why play? If we are just jacking around on the course, then I don't care if you hit a second ball or use your foot wedge to give yourself a better shot. However, don't think for a second I'll let you do that with my cash on the table.
 
In a tournament setting if I see something happen or about to happen that is against the rules I will say something to the player about it. I always assume it was a mistake and politely remind the player of the correct rules. If it would happen to be repeated I can become not so nice. It is each players responsibility to make sure all other players are following the rules. If it is a casual round, I couldn't care less what you do unless I'm going to owe you some money afterwards.
 
Like others here I'm not the "rules guy" in casual play. If asked, I'm happy to help out, but I don't harp or preach on it. But since the OP specifically mentioned competition, that's how I answered in my first post. I consider "competition" to include any betting games I'm involved in. In that case I won't let a rules breach pass.

Also, if your group is not playing strictly by the rules, then make a point of establishing just how you are treating certain situations (like lost balls) on the first tee to avoid disputes later on.
 
Fourputt said:
Also, if your group is not playing strictly by the rules, then make a point of establishing just how you are treating certain situations (like lost balls) on the first tee to avoid disputes later on.
Click to expand...

yea that would be a big thing imo. Establish some of the basic rules of choice and how to treat them prior to playing and it could eliminate potential problems before they even pop up.
 
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