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Short game question

tequila4kapp

tequila4kapp

Tom Watson called to say “Hi”
Albatross 2024 Club
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Freddie -

This is not a swing question, but more a course management / scoring question. Here's my problem, I get out of the sand and chip or pitch in one, but I don't get the ball close enough to the hole to give myself scoring chances. I think my knowledge / technique about executing the shots is reasonably fine and my problem is more between the ears. So I'd like to know your thought processes - or the processes you recommend for others - when they are facing a generic shot within say 25 yards of the green shot (i.e., not special obstructions to over come, no issues with lie, etc.). How do you decide what type of shot to hit and the club to use? What do you think about before executing the shot? Do you have a specific goal / objective in mind before taking the shot and if so, what is it? Is the decision making process part of your pre-shot routine? When do you start thinking about those things?
 
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If everything is in the scenario you provided, then I would go for the pin. 56* wedge and use a 1/2 hinge and hold swing.

How do you decide what type of shot to hit and the club to use?
Basically decide what I need more. Roll out, flop, or a combo of both.

What do you think about before executing the shot?
Which wedge to use and how to get to where I need. I almost always default to my 56* and change up when I see what's going on.

Do you have a specific goal / objective in mind before taking the shot and if so, what is it?
Get close, and don't hit it too far.

Is the decision making process part of your pre-shot routine?
Yes. I would be setting up with one club, change my mind and use a different club. I would even change what type of shot I want to go with.

When do you start thinking about those things?
The second the previous shot ends and I see where my ball is.
 
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based on your scenario with no obstructions, I would go bump & run with a PW/GW. The thought would be to keep the ball as low as possible & use the break to leave me with an uphill putt.
 
Ok...here's what's going on in my head:

Bunker....ok, how's the lie? Good. How much green do I have to work with? Where do I need to land my shot? If it spins, where will it stop, if not where will it roll out to? How's the sand? Fluffy? Packed? 56*, 54* or 60* What do you want to play, high stop and spin, or little runner? Sand looks fluffy, better hit the 56*. Get the club face square to the your target, spot. Open up the stance, knees flexed more than normal....keep your knees flexed, stay down and throw the sand all the way to your spot. Swing down your line, let the club face do the work. Knees flexed, go.
 
Agent Jay said:
Ok...here's what's going on in my head:

Bunker....ok, how's the lie? Good. How much green do I have to work with? Where do I need to land my shot? If it spins, where will it stop, if not where will it roll out to? How's the sand? Fluffy? Packed? 56*, 54* or 60* What do you want to play, high stop and spin, or little runner? Sand looks fluffy, better hit the 56*
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This is what I'm getting at with my question, but more with the generic chip or pitch.

I think I'm mentally lazy - I go through those thoughts generally to decide what to do. I get the ball up there, just not close enough.

I'm curious about how specific and repetitive those thoughts are for good players. How precise are they in deciding where to land the ball and the type of shot to play? How much time do they take working through those questions? Do they have a default shot they always play and deviate when conditions call for it or come to each shot with a completely open mind? What is the good player's standard for making a good chip/pitch? Stuff like that.
 
tequila4kapp said:
Freddie -

This is not a swing question, but more a course management / scoring question. Here's my problem, I get out of the sand and chip or pitch in one, but I don't get the ball close enough to the hole to give myself scoring chances. I think my knowledge / technique about executing the shots is reasonably fine and my problem is more between the ears. So I'd like to know your thought processes - or the processes you recommend for others - when they are facing a generic shot within say 25 yards of the green shot (i.e., not special obstructions to over come, no issues with lie, etc.). How do you decide what type of shot to hit and the club to use? What do you think about before executing the shot? Do you have a specific goal / objective in mind before taking the shot and if so, what is it? Is the decision making process part of your pre-shot routine? When do you start thinking about those things?
Click to expand...

Awesome thread T4K. I for one am very interested to see the feedback in this thread, because I struggle with this very issue frequently myself - getting on the green in one, but just not close enough to be able to capitalize frequently. I know my usual thought is to try and keep it on the ground rolling as much as possible if it's an uphill shot, and to use my lob wedge and try to get it to bite when chipping downhill onto the green. My default club when I am torn is the GW.
 
tequila4kapp said:
Freddie -

This is not a swing question, but more a course management / scoring question. Here's my problem, I get out of the sand and chip or pitch in one, but I don't get the ball close enough to the hole to give myself scoring chances. I think my knowledge / technique about executing the shots is reasonably fine and my problem is more between the ears. So I'd like to know your thought processes - or the processes you recommend for others - when they are facing a generic shot within say 25 yards of the green shot (i.e., not special obstructions to over come, no issues with lie, etc.). How do you decide what type of shot to hit and the club to use? What do you think about before executing the shot? Do you have a specific goal / objective in mind before taking the shot and if so, what is it? Is the decision making process part of your pre-shot routine? When do you start thinking about those things?
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Good questions, all of them. A 25yd bunker shot is pretty long. What did you do to get into that trap is the bigger question. But that a different answer for another day.

On long bunker shots I use either my 52* or PW. I open the face and splash it just as if I am green side. The goal with any bunker not green side is to green it near the pin.

If I am green side I am using my 54* SW. The amount of green I have to work with, slope, grain, speed of green and what I am trying to save all come into play.

If green side I am trying to stick it close with added spin or release. Close or short sided shots get an open face splash. Shots with a good bit of green get the chunk and release. I'm moving the ball out by pushing sand first so the ball releases toward the target. Short sided shots get the splash shot with tons of spin.

I also look at the depth of the trap. High lipped or deep traps get the wide open face and cut swing. Not so deep get a straight back and straight through action.

It also depends on the sand. Hard pack get open face 'cut my legs out from under me' swing. Soft of fluffy not so open face but more of a cut stroke.

If I am swinging well, I'm trying to make. If it gets away from me I know I have a better than average chance of making the putt. (SPI to thank for that). If I'm off I am taking the fat part of the green every time. My main focus no matter what shot I have is to
Make sure the weight is on my left side.
 
Thanks Freddie. Somewhere in there I may have given the impression I was primarily asking about bunker play. I meant to be asking more generically about short game...and since I'm chipping and pitching way more than getting out of the sand, maybe an eye toward those shots. Expectations. Thought processes. Planning for shot execution. What do you consider 'good'? Thanks again.
 
Great sand tips Freddie. I always thought that I was "copping out" of correct bunker technique by not opening up the face on shots where I have some green to work with, but hearing that you do it too makes me feel better. I tend to get pretty good results when I use that method as long as the lip isn't too high, but my play is not as good when I have to play an open faced shot, particularly in very soft sand.
 
Short game question

tequila4kapp said:
Thanks Freddie. Somewhere in there I may have given the impression I was primarily asking about bunker play. I meant to be asking more generically about short game...and since I'm chipping and pitching way more than getting out of the sand, maybe an eye toward those shots. Expectations. Thought processes. Planning for shot execution. What do you consider 'good'? Thanks again.
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Short game is very personal for most golfers. Some like to flop everything and others like to get the ball rolling as soon as possible. I tend to lean on the creative side. I enjoy open the face of my 54* to control the spin. Generally this is inside 40yds. But if I hand a lot of green to work with I'm using my 52 in the back of my stance with my hands way in front of the club head. The ball comes out low, checks and releases to hole. (I'm trying to make these 100% of the time.) I think anything with in 10' is good, inside excellent and tap in is stellar
 
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Thanks, Freddie, very helpful. I am realizing I never have the thought of making it. I'm not even sure what I'm thinking, maybe some version of just getting the ball up there on the green or something.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Good questions, all of them. A 25yd bunker shot is pretty long. What did you do to get into that trap is the bigger question. But that a different answer for another day.

On long bunker shots I use either my 52* or PW. I open the face and splash it just as if I am green side. The goal with any bunker not green side is to green it near the pin.

If I am green side I am using my 54* SW. The amount of green I have to work with, slope, grain, speed of green and what I am trying to save all come into play.

If green side I am trying to stick it close with added spin or release. Close or short sided shots get an open face splash. Shots with a good bit of green get the chunk and release. I'm moving the ball out by pushing sand first so the ball releases toward the target. Short sided shots get the splash shot with tons of spin.

I also look at the depth of the trap. High lipped or deep traps get the wide open face and cut swing. Not so deep get a straight back and straight through action.

It also depends on the sand. Hard pack get open face 'cut my legs out from under me' swing. Soft of fluffy not so open face but more of a cut stroke.

If I am swinging well, I'm trying to make. If it gets away from me I know I have a better than average chance of making the putt. (SPI to thank for that). If I'm off I am taking the fat part of the green every time. My main focus no matter what shot I have is to
Make sure the weight is on my left side.
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Freddie, I know it's not specifically the focus of this thread, (& I'll start a new one if you want) - but if I'm using a club like the Smart Sole wedge, Do I change technique for different scenarios ar just keep it square every time? (vs opening up the face - I was under the impression that opening this face was a bad idea).
 
Hey Freddie -

This exchange was very much on my mind today during my round ... the line "I try to make these 100% of the time" was running through my head every time I stepped up to a chip or pitch shot. Maybe it's a wacky coincidence but I made a 70 footer from just off the green, had a sand save (hit it to about a foot) and had several par / bogey saves where I consciously tried to visualize how I wanted to execute the shot and thought "inside 10 feet is good". I threw up on myself a bit on the back - including my only blowup hole where I got flustered and threw away a lot of shots around the green - but still had my second best round ever.

Just so you know / see / hear it: you are doing good work here and helping people. Thank you.
 
Grins said:
Freddie, I know it's not specifically the focus of this thread, (& I'll start a new one if you want) - but if I'm using a club like the Smart Sole wedge, Do I change technique for different scenarios ar just keep it square every time? (vs opening up the face - I was under the impression that opening this face was a bad idea).
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Grins you will need to experiment with your wedge to see what it can do. I don't have a smart sole and have used it only once. I would try various shots around the practice green prior to your round and see what the club can do with various face positions. This I will give you all the answers your seek.

tequila4kapp said:
Hey Freddie -

This exchange was very much on my mind today during my round ... the line "I try to make these 100% of the time" was running through my head every time I stepped up to a chip or pitch shot. Maybe it's a wacky coincidence but I made a 70 footer from just off the green, had a sand save (hit it to about a foot) and had several par / bogey saves where I consciously tried to visualize how I wanted to execute the shot and thought "inside 10 feet is good". I threw up on myself a bit on the back - including my only blowup hole where I got flustered and threw away a lot of shots around the green - but still had my second best round ever.

Just so you know / see / hear it: you are doing good work here and helping people. Thank you.
Click to expand...
I'm glad my tips helped out. By trying to make these shots, it makes you think of the lines and how to get on those lines. How hard to hit it, where to hit and what the ball will do once it lands on the green. Knowing your wedges is key at this point.
 
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