Rules Question - Hoffman

[JTJIII]

I was at the Barclay's on Sunday sitting behind the ninth green and saw a strange incident with Charlie Hoffman and wondered whether it was a rule's violation or not. He didn't declare it, or ask for a ruling but it's bugged me since I saw it. I'm interested to hear from anyone who knows. Here's what happened:

Hoffman hit a bad second shot that came up short of the green in one of those tightly mowed bowls below the green. He tried to hit a wedge up to the hole but stubbed it short onto the green's false front. Hoffman was furious and whacked the ground with his wedge which sent a big divot flying in two pieces into the air. One of the divots landed behind his ball which by this time was already rolling backward towards Hoffman - back down into the bowl...except the ball hit the divot and stopped. The tour was playing lift, clean and place so Hoffman just marked his ball where it was - jammed up against this divot he had hit there - and then threw the divot away. His caddy cleaned the ball and he replaced it.

Hoffman chipped on from there and 2 putted. I saw later he gave himself a double bogey but wondered whether he should have taken a penalty too. Does anyone know?

Hunter Mahan was there and didn't say anything, but Hoffman was pretty steamed and almost came to blows with a spectator who called him a choker for missing his first putt - so maybe Mahan didn't want to involve himself at that point....just wondering.

[provisional]

Does not sound right. Perhaps it is one of those things "all the pros do"...

I was at the Barclay's on Sunday sitting behind the ninth green and saw a strange incident with Charlie Hoffman and wondered whether it was a rule's violation or not. He didn't declare it, or ask for a ruling but it's bugged me since I saw it. I'm interested to hear from anyone who knows. Here's what happened:

Hoffman hit a bad second shot that came up short of the green in one of those tightly mowed bowls below the green. He tried to hit a wedge up to the hole but stubbed it short onto the green's false front. Hoffman was furious and whacked the ground with his wedge which sent a big divot flying in two pieces into the air. One of the divots landed behind his ball which by this time was already rolling backward towards Hoffman - back down into the bowl...except the ball hit the divot and stopped. The tour was playing lift, clean and place so Hoffman just marked his ball where it was - jammed up against this divot he had hit there - and then threw the divot away. His caddy cleaned the ball and he replaced it.

Hoffman chipped on from there and 2 putted. I saw later he gave himself a double bogey but wondered whether he should have taken a penalty too. Does anyone know?

Hunter Mahan was there and didn't say anything, but Hoffman was pretty steamed and almost came to blows with a spectator who called him a choker for missing his first putt - so maybe Mahan didn't want to involve himself at that point....just wondering.

[JPsuff]

Does not sound right. Perhaps it is one of those things "all the pros do"...

-JP

[OrlandoGolfBlog]

Wow, that's a crazy scenario.. I'm certain this warrants a penalty of some sort.

[JPsuff]

I think this answers the question:


19-2/9 Divot Taken After Stroke Strikes Ball in Motion

Q. A player has a short pitch shot to the green. He makes a stroke and, while the ball is still in motion, he makes a subsequent swing and takes a divot out of the ground with his club. The divot deflects or stops the moving ball. What is the ruling?

A. The player is deemed to have accidentally deflected or stopped his ball in motion. He incurs a penalty of one stroke and must play the ball as it lies (Rule 19-2). (New)


-JP

[Smallville]

Wow, that's a crazy scenario.. I'm certain this warrants a penalty of some sort.

At this point, would it warrant a disqualification of some sort? Signing an incorrect scorecard for lower than what you shot? I wonder if anyone important might see this thread and check it out? Wouldn't it be cool if later today or tomorrow we see a story about this?

[JTJIII]

I would be sweet until hoffman came to my house to get me

[biggsy]

I have a feeling this will not go away quietly.

Did Hoffman Cheat?

[Smallville]

Cool. More promotion for THP!

[AHacker'sHacker]

Now you better watch your back Jsquared!

[biggsy]

Waggleroom got a response from the PGA on this incident.

Hoffman responds

[JPsuff]

So in other words, the official statement from the PGA about a PGA player is: "We know that you believe that you saw what you think you saw however we're not sure if you realize that what you saw was not really what happened."

Sort of like the big power plant being accused of polluting the water but denying it because THEY THEMSELVES tested the water and found no pollution.


So if something like that ever happens to me on the course, I can avoid any penalty by simply telling everyone how honest I am?


Sweet!


-JP

[JB]

So in other words, the official statement from the PGA about a PGA player is: "We know that you believe that you saw what you think you saw however we're not sure if you realize that what you saw was not really what happened."

Sort of like the big power plant being accused of polluting the water but denying it because THEY THEMSELVES tested the water and found no pollution.


So if something like that ever happens to me on the course, I can avoid any penalty by simply telling everyone how honest I am?


Sweet!


-JP

I really do not see it that way. I have never been a huge fan of the PGA and how they operate on a business side. However in this case, they said they looked at the film and facts and do not see it as some of the fans did.

This is no different than any league that deems if late hits or technicals deserve further action. I just do not see how using your analogy is the same thing. The PGA would suffer no harm had they dq'd him or any harm had they said it was no penalty. Much different than the power plant analogy that aims to protect oneself.

[JPsuff]

Whatever...


-JP

[Gummi Bear]

I think Hoffman should be kicked hard, right square in the nuts, just for being a complete tool. <---wanna guess who I don't root for?

Hunter Mahan should have said something.

Charley's actions seldom show him as a man of integrity, as the PGA colors him in that response.