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Pace of Play

In my three years of play, i've been approached twice. Both in South Carolina. First time was our fault. Second wasn't. I had been golfing about 9 months and my brother in law plays about 10 rounds a summer for the past couple years. We both didn't shoot under 100 at the time but, it was our first real golf trip for both of us. The course was busy and we were behind a threesome. They were keeping pace just fine and we weren't because we were waiting for them to get to the green before teeing off. Note, we hadn't never played on a busy course as this one was. So the Ranger approached us on the 4th hole telling us to keep pace with the group ahead. He explained to us why he said what he did and for us to enjoy our day. He continued to watch us for the next hole to see if we took his advice, as we did and never seen him again the remainder of our round. That was an example of a good ranger IMO. The second time, a Ranger was just on a power trip telling us to skip a hole b/c a group was a hole ahead of us and we weren't holding anyone up. When we tee'd off on the 14, th hole the group behind us was just hitting their tee shots on the 13th. He was just trying to move everyone quicker. That my friend is pointless and is going to annoy many groups as the green fee's weren't cheap, the weather was beautiful, and they were very busy, meaning they were trying to get groups out every 5 minutes. And to say groups behind us were complaining? Come on guy. You could tell by the way he was talking down to us that he was just a prick. Talk about ruining a round of golf. If i'm in the wrong, I'll admit but, when I'm clearly not the problem, that's unethical business practice.
However, some courses have pretty lousy rangers. It annoys the crap out of me when a course has a ranger and doesn't enforce any rules. They drive around hoping you see the ranger flag to make you think they're watching for slow play, improper use of cart rules, etc...then drive on. Multiple times I've been behind a group of four as a solo player hoping that they will let me play thru as I'm approaching the tee box as their teeing off. Do they invite me thru? Of course not. Please forbid I hold them up for 5 minutes as they held me up for a hour. The ranger needs to see these types of things and address the foursome and tell them to pull off to the side and let me slide by.
 
It's a good oh boy system in these places a lot of times. Don't get me wrong for the couple of negatives I have had there have been hundreds of great rounds with no issues. Ruggles Golf Course in Aberdeen, Md is a wonderful course long for the bombers but fair and fun for the high handicappers. They are very customer and family oriented they have three really good golf pros and a wonderful first tee program. Bulle Rock is another nice one. Sorry if my views seem different but I truly feel that the game will be so much nicer if everyone golf courses included would take a step back and do what they teach new golfers kiss. Keep it simple stupid, common sense play and basic rules if you are slow allow others to play through your pace not be fun for others. If your in a group that is beyond your skill set then speak up and tell the starter for the benefit of the game and the other players you would be more comfortable with a beginner group. Remember golf is about relaxing and having fun building good memories with friends and new friends you will meet on the course. Can't play well if your not comfortable with the group this is where the course would be better suited to know your players that are regulars and keep them with the familiar guys. Don't be afraid to ask a patron hey sir how are you with groups do you like playing with beginners intermediate or better players. Golf courses really need to become pro active not so reactive. Have breakfasts where you invite players to come in speak with some of the pros meet other players maybe join groups that are better suited to your style of play. Make it fun again and the game would prosper I could only dream to run a golf course and call that my job. I would be in heaven and I promise you that it would be the top rated most friendly muni on the east coast.
 
Whatever happened to the fine art of paragraphs?
 
Fourputt said:
Whatever happened to the fine art of paragraphs?
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That fits right in with the slow play conversation about teaching people.. If someone comes to a forum that is unfamiliar with the etiquette, they might not realize that it's easier for other people to read their posts if they break them up into paragraphs. Did you PM the person and politely inform them about it? I know I never have. I just go to the rant thread and complain about it instead.
 
Kobey said:
That fits right in with the slow play conversation about teaching people.. If someone comes to a forum that is unfamiliar with the etiquette, they might not realize that it's easier for other people to read their posts if they break them up into paragraphs. Did you PM the person and politely inform them about it? I know I never have. I just go to the rant thread and complain about it instead.
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That's what I do too! Although pm'ing might not be a bad thing.
 
Done. Complaining about it in the rant thread won't do anything if people don't ever go into that thread.

back to the original subject.
 
Golfaholic said:
Sorry the pace of play was decent there was a group behind us 1 hole back and we ran into the group in front once at hole 4. Weather was nice and to that point no balls lost by anyone in my group. The group ahead we caught was due to one of them losing a ball in the wide open rough that was entirely to long for a muni. I paid 95 dollars to play that round that day which in it's self was enough pressure to play well. Golf is a hobby not something that I depend on as a career I don't make millions at it but as a self proclaimed golfaholic I spend thousands a year to play this game. There are a lot of faults from experienced golfers that cause pace of play issues that I have witnessed first hand. Example all the scratch golfer and low handicappers who play their skin matches or money matches. I have seen these guys take forever over a tee shot or a putt multiply this times four guys in a group you are looking at a slow round and no marshals/volunteers/friends of the scratch golfers ever approach them. A lot of these so called marshals volunteer so they can get free golf. I have seen these problems at many courses in Maryland and am tired of this play it forward pace of play stuff being pushed on the weekend guy wanting to hang with his friends and enjoy a few laughs on the course. As I have always said it's a game to enjoy not stress on I need to hurry up and play as fast as I can. Maybe these courses need to be reminded of the rules of golf and stop asking us to bend or break them. I was asked to continue play at wetlands and not stop at the end of the first nine for food or drink due to pace because they paired me with a 75 year old man who lost at least a case of balls on the front nine. Is this my fault no I was not asked to be paired with this guy and it was not his fault either this falls at the feet of wetlands for mismatching players together. I could go down the list of countless problems that the weekend golfer gets blamed for. Like I said earlier in the post. If we all stopped going and supporting these courses they would fail and go away. It is all for money money money. I took my 11 year old daughter who is showing interest in golf to wetlands golf course in Aberdeen Maryland she was not playing just riding with me to see what it's all about. Now it was a Monday it was cloudy drizzling but none the less I was gonna play. I go inside with my daughter and proceed to pay to play when the gentleman rang me up it was 48 dollars normally the price is 33. So I asked the guy why the increase he said no increase I have to charge your non playing 11 year old daughter 15 dollars to ride with you on the cart you have already payed for in your round. I politely got a refund and proceeded to leave the very empty course with my daughter who even said that's not really fair is it dad? That to me is gouging patrons for no reason.
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I have to agree with this, groups of 4 playing for $$$ are some of the slowest groups on the face of the earth...
 
Sorry guys have not been on here for a bit didn't mean not to paragraph every thing for you to make it easy to read.

I don't want anyone to hurt them self reading such big groups of words at once, it is petty comments like what was posted here about it that make golf courses like they are. Only one person had enough sack to send me a pm and tell me about putting everything in paragraphs. The rest of you did exactly what everyone else did and just jumped on here to make smart ass remarks.

I hope this makes everything better and easier to read so everyone can get off the boo hoo b*tch wagon.
 
For me it depends on the situation, if I see someone in the group in front of me struggling or they are just bad I get it. I have a real issue when someone in the group in front is say 280 yards out on a 500 yard par 5 and are waiting for the green to clear, they drive it 220yds yet think they can hit one 280 off the deck or they are in the trees and trying some Bubba Watson type shot and you have watch them lash at it 3-4 times, which essentially holds everyone else in the group.

One time at Disney we(3) were behind a 2 some, who were literally hitting a tree not 50 yards off the tee and not in the line of sight to the FW, yet the exact situation i described above was happening.

I feel like the I paid my $$ so i will take my time theories seem to becoming more prevalent.
 
Golfaholic said:
Sorry guys have not been on here for a bit didn't mean not to paragraph every thing for you to make it easy to read.

I don't want anyone to hurt them self reading such big groups of words at once, it is petty comments like what was posted here about it that make golf courses like they are. Only one person had enough sack to send me a pm and tell me about putting everything in paragraphs. The rest of you did exactly what everyone else did and just jumped on here to make smart ass remarks.

I hope this makes everything better and easier to read so everyone can get off the boo hoo b*tch wagon.
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No need for this post, just like there was not a need for the post about the paragraphs.

You have to understand that you are reading posts on an internet forum, the context of the posts are hard to judge, but I'd be very shocked if anybody was trying to be mean and make you upset. Case in point is that when I read it, I took it as a joke, you felt otherwise. Doesn't mean I was right and you were wrong, it just means that it's sometimes hard to judge the intent of the post on the internet. Just something to keep in mind.
 
Golfaholic said:
Sorry guys have not been on here for a bit didn't mean not to paragraph every thing for you to make it easy to read.

I don't want anyone to hurt them self reading such big groups of words at once, it is petty comments like what was posted here about it that make golf courses like they are. Only one person had enough sack to send me a pm and tell me about putting everything in paragraphs. The rest of you did exactly what everyone else did and just jumped on here to make smart ass remarks.

I hope this makes everything better and easier to read so everyone can get off the boo hoo b*tch wagon.
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Sorry. I figured I was doing you a favor. You spent a lot of time writing a post (which I assume that you would like folks to read) that many will just skip when it's that hard to follow. I guess next time I'll just skip those posts.
 
I am not mad and posted the way I was asked to do and even thought I was being funny a bit. My point is just shoot me a pm and it's all good, smallville was the only one to do so where everyone else just made comments here getting of the subject of the forum.

Everyone is to uptight relax it is Friday we all have a weekend of over crowded slow paced golf to play be happy........
 
Don't let it bother you Golfaholic. We're glad to have you here.
 
The only thing that bothers me is I can't play golf seven days a week. Everyone here is good in my book I would play a round with all of you.
 
Back on topic here.
I personally think that even though we are conditioned to think that 4+ hour rounds are decent, I would suggest that even this is too long (especially if your using a cart). Hence the reason why I almost always prefer to be one of the first groups out. In my case, we can easily average 3.5 hrs as a foursome and sub 3 hours as a twosome (WALKING) our home course, which has about 200+ feet of elevation change...
 
jhstew1 said:
For me it depends on the situation, if I see someone in the group in front of me struggling or they are just bad I get it. I have a real issue when someone in the group in front is say 280 yards out on a 500 yard par 5 and are waiting for the green to clear, they drive it 220yds yet think they can hit one 280 off the deck or they are in the trees and trying some Bubba Watson type shot and you have watch them lash at it 3-4 times, which essentially holds everyone else in the group.

One time at Disney we(3) were behind a 2 some, who were literally hitting a tree not 50 yards off the tee and not in the line of sight to the FW, yet the exact situation i described above was happening.

I feel like the I paid my $$ so i will take my time theories seem to becoming more prevalent.
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I hear you Brutta but you also need to look at the courses you are playing. If you are playing on vacation at resort courses you are gonna see this a lot because they want revenue not pace of play. This has long been a problem with many courses. Maybe we need to do like they do at these amusement parks where you need to meet a height requirement to ride.

Instead you need to meet a handicap requirement to play certain courses. Again we as players will never enjoy what the pro's do unless we belong to high dollar tightly controlled country clubs. Average guy has local beat down driving range to practice and there we are stellar but course play is never the same. The I paid my cash theory would be less prevalent if courses would manage more efficient and top over booking.
 
wenpinow said:
Back on topic here.
I personally think that even though we are conditioned to think that 4+ hour rounds are decent, I would suggest that even this is too long (especially if your using a cart). Hence the reason why I almost always prefer to be one of the first groups out. In my case, we can easily average 3.5 hrs as a foursome and sub 3 hours as a twosome (WALKING) our home course, which has about 200+ feet of elevation change...
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Yeah I agree but a lot of other people subscribe to that theory as well. I booked a tee time last Friday for 6:25am and when I got there I still did not get to tee off until 6:55 am so starting off I was already 30 min behind from my tee time. I will continue this argument with anyone it comes down to over booking on the courses end due to the drive for more revenue.

Example rules say we have 5 mins to look for a lost ball but with the way we are today on courses we lose a 4 or 5 dollar ball we dare not look for it because pace of play. The very next week yours and hundreds of others balls are in the used ball Ben in the clubhouse being resold hence more revenue for the course.

These same courses have golf leagues on certain days but they still book people to play you tee off play the front nine only to be told that league is in play and you will need to play the front nine again. I have seen more people leave the course because of this and they paid to play 18 different holes not the same 9 back to back. Course just made more revenue at our expense you want better pace of play trim the rough down a bit make the course more friendly for people.
 
Golfaholic said:
Yeah I agree but a lot of other people subscribe to that theory as well. I booked a tee time last Friday for 6:25am and when I got there I still did not get to tee off until 6:55 am so starting off I was already 30 min behind from my tee time. I will continue this argument with anyone it comes down to over booking on the courses end due to the drive for more revenue.

Example rules say we have 5 mins to look for a lost ball but with the way we are today on courses we lose a 4 or 5 dollar ball we dare not look for it because pace of play. The very next week yours and hundreds of others balls are in the used ball Ben in the clubhouse being resold hence more revenue for the course.

These same courses have golf leagues on certain days but they still book people to play you tee off play the front nine only to be told that league is in play and you will need to play the front nine again. I have seen more people leave the course because of this and they paid to play 18 different holes not the same 9 back to back. Course just made more revenue at our expense you want better pace of play trim the rough down a bit make the course more friendly for people.
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Ive never experienced this. I've always been told we will be playing the same 9 before paying.
 
This is my last post on this subject today, the courses and PGA professionals have responsibility to the patrons of their course. The scratch golfers and low handicappers play better courses most of the time to avoid playing with us high handicappers. This being said these courses could make it a lot nicer for us weekend hacks by trimming down the rough making it easier to find balls.

If you blast a tee shot in the woods I agree ball lost move on but I have fell victim to blasting a drive that was a little off I watch it drop as do my partners we get there and the rough is so thick the ball is gone out in the wide open, this alone causes a lot of pace of play problems. Make it to where the only way you can play from the blues or blacks you need a verifiable handicap that warrants play from those tees. If you do not have this you can only play from the forward tees no exceptions.

Courses should hold there own little golf tournaments to encourage all level players to come and establish handicaps and learn how to play with different levels of golfers, this also serves the purpose of the course gaining more patrons and they in turn can get more golf ready players and pick up potential customers for lessons. Stop allowing all the volunteers to be out there representing your course unless they are properly trained in how to Marshall and recognize true slow play and the causes f it. Most of these volunteers are there cause they get free golf so they are there for their interest not the patrons.

Last just stop over booking I remember a time when you would call courses and they would say we are booked sorry. Now days 99% say we can get you on and when you get there they mis match you with a group you should not be with on a already slow crowded course. This is where the course would be united to train there starters to speak up be friendly ask everyone if they are comfortable with the group they have been placed if they are not accommodate them by finding them a good group fit. Most people would rather wait a few extra minutes to be with a group that they are comfortable with.

This game is truly amazing and brings all walks of life together and forms great friendships and memories this is it's design. Play true to the game respect the rules and the others on the course and these problems will fade.
 
Wake said:
Ive never experienced this. I've always been told we will be playing the same 9 before paying.
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You have been lucky here in Maryland it happens all the time
 
Wake said:
That is terrible customer service.
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This is one of the many problems we deal with here. That's why I am so into this thread, I invite anyone to come play a round with me at any of our courses to experience it first hand.
 
Its funny, I have played a lot of golf in MD over the years. Had friends int he Towson and Columbia areas and never had anything like that happen. Not doubting you at all, but I would definitely just find a different course.
 
Well Towson the biggest course for slow play due to things we have discussed pine ridge.
 
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