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Optimizing Wedge Bounce?

BradMorris

BradMorris

They Make It Look So Easy
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I was just wondering if low handicap and scratch golfers are always optimizing the bounce of their wedges for a given shot when around the greens? Or, is bounce only considered in certain situations? For example, on basic chip shot from a soft tight lie, would you use more bounce than you would on an identical shot from a firm tight lie? Or, would you not even take bounce into consideration and play them both the same?
 
BradMorris said:
I was just wondering if low handicap and scratch golfers are always optimizing the bounce of their wedges for a given shot when around the greens? Or, is bounce only considered in certain situations? For example, on basic chip shot from a soft tight lie, would you use more bounce than you would on an identical shot from a firm tight lie? Or, would you not even take bounce into consideration and play them both the same?
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The pros carry a fist full of wedges with different bounces and they select what they'll play depending on the course they're facing and the conditions of the day. We are not so fortunate. We must make do with a few wedges so our bounce choices get tougher. I play at two courses mainly, one with fluffy white sand and another with hard brown dirt in its traps that solidifies after each rain. Based on traps alone (not even considering turf conditions or the thin-ness of my lies) I have to switch my wedges when I play each course. Fluffy course needs a high bounce sand wedge to prevent over digging, so the wedge "floats" through the sand. Dirt course needs a low bounce wedge that "cuts" into the crust of traps to get under the ball.

For thin approach shots on near bare turf, the same rules apply. If it's hard pan, you'll need a low bounce cutter to dig in and go after it. If that turf is at all wet and muddy, you need a high bounce floater, otherwise you'll take bigger scalps than Crazy Horse.

If you want a compromise wedge that works extremely well in both situations, try Taylormade's ATV grind wedges or wedges with similar grinds made by other companies. Extreme heel shaving allows you to open the face and float under when you need to. I love mine.
 
Thanks for your reply. In trying to increase my margin of error in wedge shots (to offset my chipping yips) around the green, I have started to pay much more attention to the bounce flange and it's position relative to the leading edge when setting up for shots around the green. In general I try to make sure that the flange is equal to or slightly lower than the leading edge in most situations. The softer the ground, the lower I set the flange. This is of course subject to the steepness of my approach, which I am working on shallowing out this year. All of this seems to help the club skid instead of dig should I hit a little behind the ball. Which I tend to do a lot anymore. Again, thank you for your reply. You confirmed what I assumed was the case.
 
Go to Callaway's site and Hopkins site and watch their videos. They both do a great job explaining what pros use in different situations
 
the only time i pay attention to bounce really is in bunkers.. if its lot of sand and soft, ill play the wedge with more bounce. on typical chips, i choose the club based on how much carry vs roll i need.
 
My bunker play is decent. And I understand how bounce is implemented depending on the sand. In fact, I am one of those who would much rather be in a green side bunker than chipping from a tight lie around the green. I was just curious as to whether golfers are giving the same consideration to the bounce when chipping and pitching. It sounds like many do. Thanks again.
 
BradMorris said:
My bunker play is decent. And I understand how bounce is implemented depending on the sand. In fact, I am one of those who would much rather be in a green side bunker than chipping from a tight lie around the green. I was just curious as to whether golfers are giving the same consideration to the bounce when chipping and pitching. It sounds like many do. Thanks again.
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You're a bit like me. I generally have no problem with bunkers, but if I have a thin like close to the green, I get the chipping yips. If that same thin lie is WET, you can forget it it, I will chunk as I tend to be a digger.

Try the ATV's. Get like a 56 and try opening the face on shots around the green. You'll find that it's very easy to SLIDE the club under the ball, even on wet or tight lies, so your turf interaction is minimized. The ground heel allows you to do this. It works so well that with an open face 56 you don't really need a 60 or 64. Open faced 64's can slide under without even moving the ball in thick rough. I've started practicing my 5 foot flops with them, something I could never do before.
 
This is the type of choice that led me to the U Grind on my MD2 wedge, foe tight lies, I can keep the front edge close to the ground to make sure that I make clean contact while in softer conditions, I can open the face a bit to get more bounce to keep the club from digging too much.
 
I've used the same wedges (j40) for the past three season with the exception of substituting the MD2 from the Morgan Cup. I've played the j40s in every type of consist uo and had no issues.

It's bit about the bounce for me it's about the technique. I think switching wedges for most players is a want more than need. And that's cool but with proper technique you can make any wedge do what you want from any lie.
 
This is something that I believe many amateurs over think. Its just a personal opinion and one I have had for a while, but after analyzing how most amateurs use their wedges, I firmly believe it.
 
Optimizing Wedge Bounce?

I personally don't think much about optimizing bounce when it comes to shots. Maybe that is ignorant of me and maybe I should start doing it, but I don't go up to a shot saying "I need x amount of bounce to make this shot work."

Again, maybe I should, but I am the equivalent of an infant when it comes to knowledge about this stuff. But my knowledge is growing everyday.
 
dcbrad said:
I personally don't think much about optimizing bounce when it comes to shots. Maybe that is ignorant of me and maybe I should start doing it, but I don't go up to a shot saying "I need x amount of bounce to make this shot work."

Again, maybe I should, but I am the equivalent of an infant when it comes to knowledge about this stuff. But my knowledge is growing everyday.
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I got enough going through my head. But i know my form isn't good enough now for a solid short game anyhow so maybe part of me doesn't care.
 
mikedean441 said:
I got enough going through my head. But i know my form isn't good enough now for a solid short game anyhow so maybe part of me doesn't care.
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Im probably in the same boat. Just don't even know how to apply it to different situations. Haha
 
Thanks for your reply. It's kind of hard not to think about it when the wedge companies put so much effort into telling us how important it is. Even the J40 wedges have implemented some sort of variable bounce technology into their design. And, while I totally agree with Tadashi's comments on technique being the #1 objective, I do think that having an underlying understanding of how the flange interacts with the ground, and how to best use it to my advantage, is the final piece of the wedge mastery puzzle. Actually, in my case, I'm just trying to create the largest margin of error in my chipping setup to overcome the twitchy hands. I figure it's either learn to utilize the flange more as a skid plate, or a do couple shots of Captain Morgan (private stock of course) before the round.


JB said:
This is something that I believe many amateurs over think. Its just a personal opinion and one I have had for a while, but after analyzing how most amateurs use their wedges, I firmly believe it.
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BradMorris said:
Thanks for your reply. It's kind of hard not to think about it when the wedge companies put so much effort into telling us how important it is. Even the J40 wedges have implemented some sort of variable bounce technology into their design. And, while I totally agree with Tadashi's comments on technique being the #1 objective, I do think that having an underlying understanding of how the flange interacts with the ground, and how to best use it to my advantage, is the final piece of the wedge mastery puzzle. Actually, in my case, I'm just trying to create the largest margin of error in my chipping setup to overcome the twitchy hands. I figure it's either learn to utilize the flange more as a skid plate, or a do couple shots of Captain Morgan (private stock of course) before the round.
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So let me ask you a question, how do
you hit a chip shot or a pitch? Are you looking at the flange and wonder where that should make contact first or are you hitting ball first then ground? If you aren't doing the first on 98% of wedges around the green, you are not using the club correctly.

If you are in a trap and want to impart some control on the ball then the flange comes into play. But most don't nip the ball out of the bunker using the bounce. Most hit behind the ball and push the ball out with sand infringing of the face. No bounce needed.

Do you worry about the bounce on your irons? More than likely not and you hit those just fine. Why add another non factor to your mental approach to the game. Way over thinking IMO. Now there are exception to every rule and some feel they have it figured out with two sets of wedges. I promise you, it's mental.
 
Tadashi70 said:
So let me ask you a question, how do you hit a chip shot or a pitch? Are you looking at the flange and wonder where that should make contact first or are you hitting ball first then ground? If you aren't doing the first on 98% of wedges around the green, you are not using the club correctly.
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I'm sorry if I'm not being clear. My intention on any pitch or chip shot is to hit the ball first exactly like we're supposed to. Set up and action... by the book. No question about it. I'm not TRYING to use the bounce. I'm thinking of the flange simply as a margin of error should I hit a little behind the ball, to keep it from digging in. That's it, nothing more nothing less. A margin of error built into the club that is there to help me should I not make the perfect action. Which I know I will not do a few times during a round. This is not something I obsess over. Just training wheels for the wedge when I get a little wobbly.

If you are in a trap and want to impart some control on the ball then the flange comes into play. But most don't nip the ball out of the bunker using the bounce. Most hit behind the ball and push the ball out with sand infringing of the face. No bounce needed.
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Man, I hope that nobody thought I was suggesting nipping the ball off of the top of the sand in a bunker somehow using the bounce to do so. I would never suggest that. Ever. Though I do use the bounce in sand to help me keep from digging in too deeply on a basic shot. So I guess there is a little similarity from that perspective. Sorta. But in general, I try to play bunker shots exactly as described by pretty much every instructor on the planet. And I'm actually a fairly decent bunker player.

Do you worry about the bounce on your irons? More than likely not and you hit those just fine. Why add another non factor to your mental approach to the game. Way over thinking IMO. Now there are exception to every rule and some feel they have it figured out with two sets of wedges. I promise you, it's mental.
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Oh I know it's mental. And for me right now it's all about trying to find the greatest margin of error I can when chipping. And cheating a little by choosing a club that I can open a little (depending on how much grass is under the ball) to access the bounce, to help keep the club from digging in when I get too steep, has helped me as I struggle to find the solutions to my short game woes. I just didn't know if others even considered the bounce of their wedges when chipping. Thanks again for your reply.
 
BradMorris said:
Man, I hope that nobody thought I was suggesting nipping the ball off of the top of the sand in a bunker somehow using the bounce to do so. I would never suggest that. Ever. Though I do use the bounce in sand to help me keep from digging in too deeply. So I guess there is a little similarity from that perspective. Sorta. But in general, I try to play bunker shots exactly as described by pretty much every instructor on the planet. And I'm actually a fairly decent bunker player.
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This is exactly what the bouce is used for, nipping off top of sand. I am saying and I am say most don't use the bouce in this way or can't. I think bouce confuses people and Ams put way too much stock into it.
 
I'm generally very careful in how I word things to avoid confusion. And nipping the ball off of the top of the sand is something I haven't really heard taught in bunker instruction. But this is your forum and I'm just a hack so I certainly won't question your take on it. Thanks again.

Tadashi70 said:
This is exactly what the bouce is used for, nipping off top of sand. I am saying and I am say most don't use the bouce in this way or can't. I think bouce confuses people...
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NOt sure where all that came from. My name is on the forum but its noty mine. I was just tryiong to share some wisdom. You seem to have been offended by opinion.
BradMorris said:
I'm generally very careful in how I word things to avoid confusion. And nipping the ball off of the top of the sand is something I haven't really heard taught in bunker instruction. But this is your forum and I'm just a hack so I certainly won't question your take on it. Thanks again.
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BradMorris said:
I'm generally very careful in how I word things to avoid confusion. And nipping the ball off of the top of the sand is something I haven't really heard taught in bunker instruction. But this is your forum and I'm just a hack so I certainly won't question your take on it. Thanks again.
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Let me see if I can add something from a different perspective. Tadashi is a very skilled player who could probably pull off bunker/wedge shots using his 8 iron that would embarrass us mere mortals. But that skill doesn't help us confused hackers much.

I did not come at the discussion of bounce by saying, "Gee, I wonder if a 12 degree or 8 degree wedge would be better for this shot." There was no technical forethought. I came at it after noticing that the wedge I used on my 'fluffy bunker' course did not work on my 'hard pan bunker' course. Gradually, I noticed that more bounce was better for fluffy (because it dug less), while less bounce was better for crusty (because it dug in more). I also had a problem with chips on tight wet turf. My pro said, "You're a digger, get a wedge with more bounce." Which I did, and it worked.

So then I had about 6 wedges that I had to rotate. They all worked, but honestly -- 6 wedges?

Slowly I found that if a wedge had an extreme heel grind like the ATV (and many others), it was easy to make that one wedge perform like many, opening it up for more glide through and under shots and closing it for more dig. As Tiger said of Seve, "He was the best at getting a wedge UNDER a ball." Not on, under.

Without the extreme heel grind, I found that the heel of my wedge would often get in the way of my attempt to slide a club under a ball, sometimes causing it to "skip" before it made contact with the ball, resulting in a skulled shot. This was especially the case if I used a bouncy wedge on hard pan or crusty sand. I couldn't get under them, even if I opened up the face. With the heel grind wedge, I don't skip, I can slide under -- even on hard pan or wet turf. Make sense?

I hope some of this is useful to you. If not, just think less and hit better shots!
 
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