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Strength vs Flexibility in Golf Swing

blugold said:
Dumbbell squats are useless in my opinion. 3 sets of 5 reps three days a week. Adding 5 lbs every workout. Learn proper form and bar placement. Get your hips below your knees. Read Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. Knee pain goes away.
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Well then off to get a barbell set... They were really good about teaching the correct form at Crossfit, and especially stressed getting the hips below the knees. What they had and I don't is the rack where you can get the barbell off of the floor to begin and end each set.

I'm surprised dumbbell squats wouldn't be beneficial as you'd be engaging more muscles by maintaining the proper form.

Anyway, thanks for the input and book reference - I'll definitely try to find that!
 
pattyboy21 said:
Well then off to get a barbell set... They were really good about teaching the correct form at Crossfit, and especially stressed getting the hips below the knees. What they had and I don't is the rack where you can get the barbell off of the floor to begin and end each set.

I'm surprised dumbbell squats wouldn't be beneficial as you'd be engaging more muscles by maintaining the proper form.

Anyway, thanks for the input and book reference - I'll definitely try to find that!
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Less muscle is stressed with dumbbells. I'm not sure the firm your crossfit studio teaches. If it involves the bar on top of the traps, or ATG (arse to grass) they're wrong IMO
 
What makes you say DB squats are useless?

blugold said:
Dumbbell squats are useless in my opinion. 3 sets of 5 reps three days a week. Adding 5 lbs every workout. Learn proper form and bar placement. Get your hips below your knees. Read Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. Knee pain goes away.
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I was to slow with my previous question. Stressing less muscles does not make DB squats useless

blugold said:
Less muscle is stressed with dumbbells. I'm not sure the firm your crossfit studio teaches. If it involves the bar on top of the traps, or ATG (arse to grass) they're wrong IMO
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pattyboy21 said:
I'm horribly out of shape and looking into fitness regimens. I did do a couple of CrossFit sessions (they sure love their squats!) and we used foam rollers before and after. I'd highly recommend those!
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If you really want to ramp up the myofascial release, try using a lacrosse ball around glutes and delt areas. Not going to be very comfortable for a while.

I have done a little Crossfit lately and it is a good GPP type of workouts. One thing I have heard and observed is the level of training and enforcement for proper form in the movements is all over the board. Those that are not as strict can let you progress too quickly and you end up hurt. Squats, deadlifts, and especially the Olympic lifts require a lot of training and proper form. So be careful which gym you pick, they are popping up everywhere.

Probably the best starting progression for squats is the to goblet squat. You can use either a dumbell or kettlebell for this. Use the cues that you have been given in the Crossfit classes you have done so far, and make sure you get to depth. Increase the weight then progress to a front squat with a barbell and back squats. Form over weight. If you start getting sloppy in your form at any point go down weight.
 
BigTex said:
If you really want to ramp up the myofascial release, try using a lacrosse ball around glutes and delt areas. Not going to be very comfortable for a while.

I have done a little Crossfit lately and it is a good GPP type of workouts. One thing I have heard and observed is the level of training and enforcement for proper form in the movements is all over the board. Those that are not as strict can let you progress too quickly and you end up hurt. Squats, deadlifts, and especially the Olympic lifts require a lot of training and proper form. So be careful which gym you pick, they are popping up everywhere.

Probably the best starting progression for squats is the to goblet squat. You can use either a dumbell or kettlebell for this. Use the cues that you have been given in the Crossfit classes you have done so far, and make sure you get to depth. Increase the weight then progress to a front squat with a barbell and back squats. Form over weight. If you start getting sloppy in your form at any point to down weight.
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I appreciate the input BigTex. I actually bought 2 lacrosse balls at the behest of the sports therapist I went to. He suggested that I put 2 of them into a sock and roll on those. He told me that my glutes and hamstrings were way too tight, and that combined with a weak core was causing my soaz(?) to get out of whack. He also suggested that I start doing squats.

I think I will start off with the goblet squat and my 30-lb DB before I invest in any weights.
 
sposey013168 said:
I was to slow with my previous question. Stressing less muscles does not make DB squats useless
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There are 4 dumbbell squat variations that can have some benefits to more advanced lifters who need variations to help continue gaining strength on the barbell lift. Overhead, split, goblet, elevated sumo. Those lifts all have one thing in common, the weights will move in a straight line up and down and allow safe squat depth.

Holding two dumbbells at your sides and trying to perform a safe squat is impossible. So you will have to move the weights to the side as you squat down. So the weight is moving up and down and side to side. Reducing the amount of weight you can use. Because performing that movement with a heavier weight is darned near impossible.

Additionally, driving out of the bottom squat position is impossible because you have to manipulate the weight out around your legs on the way back up, which will stress your shoulders' soft tissue unnecessarily and risk impingement.

With all of those considerations, a low bar squat is easier to perform, safer to accomplish, and allow the lifter to use heavier weights which will allow for more stable linear progression.

That's why I believe dumbbell squats are useless.
 
I understand what you are saying and I agree BB squats with proper form are best overall exercise there is (followed close be deads) but there are situations where DB or sissy squats would be better. coming off of an injury or for the older crowd low weight, high rep DB squats would be good.

blugold said:
There are 4 dumbbell squat variations that can have some benefits to more advanced lifters who need variations to help continue gaining strength on the barbell lift. Overhead, split, goblet, elevated sumo. Those lifts all have one thing in common, the weights will move in a straight line up and down and allow safe squat depth. Holding two dumbbells at your sides and trying to perform a safe squat is impossible. You will have to move the weights to the side as you squat down. So not only up and down but out as well. Reducing the amount of weight you can use. Because performing that movement with a heavier weight is darned near impossible. Additionally, driving out of the bottom squat position is impossible because you have to manipulate the weight out around your legs, which will stress your shoulders' soft tissue unnecessarily and risk impingement. With all of those considerations, a low bar squat is easier to perform, safer to accomplish, and allow the lifter to use heavier weights which will allow for more stable linear progression.

That's why I believe dumbbell squats are useless.
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sposey013168 said:
I understand what you are saying and I agree BB squats with proper form are best overall exercise there is (followed close be deads) but there are situations where DB or sissy squats would be better. coming off of an injury or for the older crowd low weight, high rep DB squats would be good.
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Sissy squats are no good in my opinion either. At the same time. A body weight squat to depth will be more beneficial. the older crowd can still squat to depth. It's a slow transition, but stopping the movement short of hips below the patella is the most dangerous position to be in.
 
blugold said:
Squats are the king, in my opinion, the single most benefitial lift one can do. My point of contention with crossfit is the randomization. It's more exercise than training. A lot of those lifts require frequent training.
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I would go with the deadlift blu - but you could make a case of both! I agree with you about crossfit. Lifting is like any sport - it requires practice to get the technique down, ( and if you don't, there WILL be injuries ) and also to make consistent gains. I have always said that it will be interesting to see some of those crossfit trainees in 10 years or so. But I can't condemn it totally as that wouldn't be fair as I don't really know enough about it - and it does have the benefit of getting people off their couches and getting passionate about exercise.
 
My PT might disagree with you, but what does he know :p

blugold said:
Sissy squats are no good in my opinion either. At the same time. A body weight squat to depth will be more beneficial. the older crowd can still squat to depth. It's a slow transition, but stopping the movement short of hips below the patella is the most dangerous position to be in.
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sposey013168 said:
My PT might disagree with you, but what does he know :p
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PT as in personal trainer? I have never met him. But I will say that best selling authors and renowned strength and conditioning coaches agree with me
 
Some great info here - all appreciated. It's obvious Rory has been doing squats; he's a beast!
 
BIGBALL said:
I would go with the deadlift blu - but you could make a case of both! I agree with you about crossfit. Lifting is like any sport - it requires practice to get the technique down, ( and if you don't, there WILL be injuries ) and also to make consistent gains. I have always said that it will be interesting to see some of those crossfit trainees in 10 years or so. But I can't condemn it totally as that wouldn't be fair as I don't really know enough about it - and it does have the benefit of getting people off their couches and getting passionate about exercise.
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The deadlift is awesome because it is a pure strength lift. But it doesn't involve the same concentric phase as the squat.
 
No not personal trainer, Physical therapist. I went through bicep tendon surgery and sprained MCL in the past.

blugold said:
PT as in personal trainer? I have never met him. But I will say that best selling authors and renowned strength and conditioning coaches agree with me
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sposey013168 said:
My PT might disagree with you, but what does he know :p
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I had a Chiro tell me since I was over 50, there was no good reason for me to squat heavy or deadlift. I found another Chiro. :)

Blu and Bigball do have a good point about Crossfit. The workouts are too random from a strength standpoint. The lack of training and proper progressions in form are a recipe for pain for newbies especially. But, if you have some background with training they can be very good metabolic training and weight loss methods. People that are very deconditioned will get stronger, but that is pretty limited beyond that. Some of the Olympic training can translate into helping with power in the golf swing, but most have some strength and mobility issues they need to address before you really tackle those.
 
my chiro loves when I do heavy deads, he gets to charge me $$ when I pop a rib out and he has to pop it back in :)

BigTex said:
I had a Chiro tell me since I was over 50, there was no good reason for me to squat heavy or deadlift. I found another Chiro. :)

Blu and Bigball do have a good point about Crossfit. The workouts are too random from a strength standpoint. The lack of training and proper progressions in form are a recipe for pain for newbies especially. But, if you have some background with training they can be very good metabolic training and weight loss methods. People the are very deconditioned will get stronger, but that is pretty limited beyond that. Some of the Olympic training can translate into helping with power in the golf swing, but most have some strength and mobility issues they need to address before you really tackle those.
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sposey013168 said:
No not personal trainer, Physical therapist. I went through bicep tendon surgery and sprained MCL in the past.
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Let me clarify this with you. I think we are on the same page. From an injury rehab standpoint, reduced range or progressions are important for recovery. From a training standpoint, when healthy, reduced ROMs can be dangerous and counterproductive. That's my understanding at least.
 
BigTex said:
I had a Chiro tell me since I was over 50, there was no good reason for me to squat heavy or deadlift. I found another Chiro. :)

Blu and Bigball do have a good point about Crossfit. The workouts are too random from a strength standpoint. The lack of training and proper progressions in form are a recipe for pain for newbies especially. But, if you have some background with training they can be very good metabolic training and weight loss methods. People that are very deconditioned will get stronger, but that is pretty limited beyond that. Some of the Olympic training can translate into helping with power in the golf swing, but most have some strength and mobility issues they need to address before you really tackle those.
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Olympic lifts, ugh. So many people try to learn those by watching videos on YouTube. Those lifts require an experienced coach and dedicated student. Most crossfit instructors and lifters meet neither catagory.
 
blugold said:
Olympic lifts, ugh. So many people try to learn those by watching videos on YouTube. Those lifts require an experienced coach and dedicated student. Most crossfit instructors and lifters meet neither catagory.
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Yep, the clean part of most of those movements is where I get beyond my mobility limits. I just do not currently have the wrist and shoulder mobility to get the bar to rest on my clavicle area. Basically just holding on to the bar and not resting it. I can get around that doing front squats having my arms across the bar. Using kettlebells I am ok also since the resting position with the clean is different.
 
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