Par 3's on tour, some just way too long?

Remember how I asked for opinions? I don't remember asking to start an argument.

I'm sorry that you're offended. I asked a question.
 
I'm sorry that you're offended. I asked a question.

Agreed, I didn't see you asking for an argument here, valid question.

IMO, 600 is not unfair for a par 5. 280-250 still leaves less than 100 for a 3rd shot.
 
Is anyone else watching the 190ish yard #15 eat these guy's lunch right now?

I'm watching it. This is incredible. Same scoring average as the par 5 2nd. Length isn't the only thing that makes a hole difficult.
 
My question would be, is distance ever unfair if everyone has to play from that length in competition?
 
I think every course needs a PW reachable par 3. I also think distances need to vary so you never hit the same club off the tee twice (on par 3s). There's a course near me with 6 par 3s and 5 of them are within 10yds distance of each other, so I always end up hitting the same tee club. Very boring.
 
I think every course needs a PW reachable par 3. I also think distances need to vary so you never hit the same club off the tee twice (on par 3s). There's a course near me with 6 par 3s and 5 of them are within 10yds distance of each other, so I always end up hitting the same tee club. Very boring.

A good change in par 3s a must. Some long. Some short. Forced carries, run up areas. Variety is the spice of life and par 3s
 
My question would be, is distance ever unfair if everyone has to play from that length in competition?

For competitions I don't think it matters but for recreational golfers I think it takes a lot of enjoyment out of a round.
 
For competitions I don't think it matters but for recreational golfers I think it takes a lot of enjoyment out of a round.

I agree.

Played a course last year that had a par 3 in the 225 range from the blues. The wind was blowing, figured it was playing about 240 that day. We all just looked at one another and moved up to the forward tees. Just wasn't worth it.
 
We have a par 3 on our course that from the front of the men's tee plays 200yards to the front of the green. When the tees are right at the back and the pin is at the back (of a big green) it plays 240+yards. It's a brutal hole and almost every older player hits driver even from the front tees. I hit a long ball and even I hit my hybrid from the back tees, the front I can hit as little as 6iron when the wind is right. As far as I'm concerned it's way too long for club golf but what do I know.
 
We have a par 3 on our course that from the front of the men's tee plays 200yards to the front of the green. When the tees are right at the back and the pin is at the back (of a big green) it plays 240+yards. It's a brutal hole and almost every older player hits driver even from the front tees. As far as I'm concerned it's way too long for club golf but what do I know.

Just wondering if the hole has the option to lay up to?
 
It has a run up/lay up area short of the green which is what allows the older golfers that can't get the ball a long way in the air to still have a chance of hitting the green.
 
Considering how the players scored on a very short par 3 at the US Open, I would think making long par 3's shows little imagination. There are many ways to build a par 3 to add difficulty and length is only one option. Look at some of the signature par 3's at the Masters, The Players, TPC Scottsdale, and other tournaments. There are many other ways to defend the pin than putting it out of reach for the majority of players.

Oddly enough, designers and golf courses cut their own throat by making some holes or entire courses that are too difficult for the majority of golfers. People play there once, rack up a huge bill and score, loose lots of balls and never go back. I can name a couple courses around my area that have had to spend a lot of money to dial it back a bunch within a couple years of opening.
 
That's not a problem with golf as a whole, that's a problem with your club choosing not to accommodate all memberships skill levels.


TTing

I said nothing about golf as a whole but you make a good point.
 
I think maybe up to 210 yards is adequate, providing they are as challenging as the short ones. My home course has 4, all 157 and under. Two new ones will replace two of the four... they will be 193 and well guarded, and 175. So, we'll have 145, 154, 175 and 193. Works for me. They are challenging and fun to play.

There are many short challenging Par 3s. A couple have been mentioned. A moderate length, supper challenge is the signature hole at Sherwood CC, the 189 yard Par 3. Not only is the distance, water and OB challenging, but the wind comes into play, really making it interesting. Today was a good example as, of the 18 top level golfers, playing in Tigers tourney, Hole 15 collected 12 water/OB and 4 of those missed again from the drop area. It was really a fun hole to watch.
 
I think 225 is about the max. These are pros we are talking about here...
 
I used to balk at longer par 3's as well. My club, however, has a 235 yard par 3, to a raised green, and it's rarely if ever the hole I score the worst on. In fact, it's the opposite. I've come to realize that these distance par 3's do have a place on the course. Longer par 3's obviously test your acumen with the long clubs, and there are very good ways, and bad ways, such a hole is designed to test that.
 
I'm OK with it. In my experience the longer par 3's (210+) are always more straight forward and have less trouble. Over the course of time I think I score better on the long ones than the shorter ones with all their hazards and trouble.
 
The size of these greens somewhat dictate that the distance. They insist on making these huge spectacular greens, but get back to the smaller, double tiered and such with danger off the front/back and you can keep the distances down.
 
My course has what I would consider a good mix of Par 3's for the average golfer.

#2 typically plays around 150 yards, bunker guarding the right, you can run one on in the middle, and left feeds further left, long is OK as long as it's not over 10 yards long. You can hit a horrible shot to the right and as long as you don't catch the bunker, it's wide open over there.

#7 plays around 200 yards, carry over water that really shouldn't come into play, bunker guarding the left but plenty of room short and right to bail out if the distance is a worry.

#10 is 130 yards to a severely sloped green to the front and right and a bunker guarding the left side. Great hole that kicks everyone's butts when the pin is up front. While it's the shortest Par 3 on the course, because of the slope of the green I've seen more double and triple bogeys on this one than the 200 yarder over water. Short and right is OK, anything long and you may as well chip back off the front of the green and try again when the pin is in the front.

#17 is 160 yards uphill to a huge green that feeds left. When the pin is on the left, people who don't know the deceptive green will go for it, only to find themselves in no-man's land. When the pin is short right, it's go-time. The right has mounds which will help feed shots that go a little right back towards the green.
 
One of my home courses has a 249 (230 of forward tees) yard par 3 - and the total course length is under 6000 yards!

The (very sloped) green is at the same level as the tee but the fairway is on a steep upslope so you can't really get close with a 3 wood (or I can't anyway).

It's genuinely the hardest hole (in relation to par) I've ever played.
 
One of my home courses has a 249 (230 of forward tees) yard par 3 - and the total course length is under 6000 yards!

The (very sloped) green is at the same level as the tee but the fairway is on a steep upslope so you can't really get close with a 3 wood (or I can't anyway).

It's genuinely the hardest hole (in relation to par) I've ever played.

That's a heck of a hole! On that hole I'm lucky in that I can hit my hybrid and fly it 250yards but the majority of players can't and that's where I have a problem with holes like this.
 
Longer par 3s used to bother me because I used to be a flag hunter on all par 3s no matter the placement. Once I learned better course management and my game improved the longer par 3s didn't bother me as much. I have confidence that I can get up and down if I miss the green.


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I personally think for an amateur playing from the whites, anything over 200 (unless it is down hill) is too long. The reason is because I personally think there's a very low percentage of amateurs who can actually make a GIR at that distance.

To me, that's the key to hole length in course design. It's not that "will you" make a green in reg, but "can you?" A par 3 should always be able to be realistically reachable distance wise. I don't think most amateurs can hit a green in one from 200 yards out, unless it is a massively big green (which in turn they'd almost always 3 putt).

My home course has a 197 yard par 3 with a slightly elevated, medium sized green. It has bunkers left and right that come around to the front, but does have a run up area in the middle. I've hit a GIR here only twice. Often I'm pin high, but right or left in trouble. I've been paired with dozens of random people and the only GIRs I've ever seen were from people who ultimately shot < 80 on the round (and that's only about 3).

The pros are playing an entirely different game. They can handle 240 yard par 3s without problem and 98% should hit a GIR from that distance. Unless you start getting to something that forces a driver, I don't think it is too long.

I personally would rather watch them play a tough par 3 like Sawgrass (which is only 137 from the Players' tees) than one of the long dull ones. I think that was the point of the original discussion.
 
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