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Getting your right/rear shoulder down/on plane during the downswing

-CRW-

-CRW-

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Does anyone have any good tips/videos/articles on getting your right/rear shoulder down/on plane during the downswing.

I struggle with this to varying degrees depending on the club in hand and from swing to swing. It's most prevalent with the driver. I can set up closed to my target line and swing in-to-out, but still end up slightly out-to-in at contact and/or contacting the ball with the heel of the club due to me throwing the right shoulder out over the ball instead of down the plane/to the inside of the ball.

I already use a closet rod to work on the "Tom Watson Secret" move, but am looking for other good ways to ingrain the move. I think it's tough for me because I'm left handed but golf right handed. So my tendency is to be overly dominant with my left/lead hand which results in a dragging of the club across the ball. The result is usually a push to some degree with irons that I counter with a strong grip to produce a draw. The strong grip isn't enough most of time with the driver and if I get that trailing shoulder out of the ball with a very strong grip I end up hitting a powerful draw that started left of the target line and would end up OB left.

So any thoughts/tips/etc. would be appreciated.
 
I kept waiting for the guy in your video to talk about the right/rear shoulder, but he didn't. I can lay the shaft down and be extremely in-to-out at about the point the shaft is parallel to the ground, but then my body wants to lift bringing the right shoulder up and over the ball instead of down the plane. I'm looking for things to help me work on keeping that right shoulder down and for me it's independent of what the shaft is doing.
 
I have this problem with my driver.
My instructor said to try to keep my sternum/chest pointing at the ball thru impact.
Drill is taking the driver, putting the butt end on the ground, grab the driver head with your left/lead hand, keep the club upright and swing your right arm/back arm toward the target.

Hope this helps.
 
Some youtube videos on side bend that helped me a little. Or at least helped me visualize it better.

Still a struggle and for me it's mostly related to upper body moving target side. Some OTT, some flip. Last video I took showed a hint of where I wanted to be. Good luck because it sucks.
 
Spivey said:
I have this problem with my driver.
My instructor said to try to keep my sternum/chest pointing at the ball thru impact.
Drill is taking the driver, putting the butt end on the ground, grab the driver head with your left/lead hand, keep the club upright and swing your right arm/back arm toward the target.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

I've seen that before, but not sure I've ever tried it or thought much about it. I will give it a shot. Thanks.

Hawk said:
Some youtube videos on side bend that helped me a little. Or at least helped me visualize it better.

Still a struggle and for me it's mostly related to upper body moving target side. Some OTT, some flip. Last video I took showed a hint of where I wanted to be. Good luck because it sucks.
Click to expand...

I'll search around on side bend. It definitely sucks and feels so unnatural to me. But when I do it right I know it, so it's hard to argue with the results.

I'm sure I'm missing this same piece with my irons to some extent as well. It makes me wonder how many small subconscious adjustments are going on throughout my swing in order to make the ball go relatively close to where I want with my irons.
 
The issue isn't your shoulders, its your sequence and lack of hip release. If you keep you back to the target as you say you are and start with the left hip. The club will drop to the inside and the shoulder will not come out.

The issue as I hear it, is that your swing starts up top, then hips, then the hips stop and the swing heads left, cutting across the face.

What happens if you embrace the move and just stay behind it? Do you pound a power fade or is everything weak right?
 
Tadashi70 said:
The issue isn't your shoulders, its your sequence and lack of hip release. If you keep you back to the target as you say you are and start with the left hip. The club will drop to the inside and the shoulder will not come out.

The issue as I hear it, is that your swing starts up top, then hips, then the hips stop and the swing heads left, cutting across the face.

What happens if you embrace the move and just stay behind it? Do you pound a power fade or is everything weak right?
Click to expand...

It's usually a slight hip shift first before hip turn, then arms. I'm usually a little more inside the plane than I would like to be when the shaft is parallel to the ground. Then right before contact I tend to come out of the swing and lift the right/rear shoulder up and across resulting in contact with the ball on the heel of the driver face.

It varies some from shot to shot but unfortunately I wouldn't describe any of the shots as a power fade or weak right. Typically it's a weak fade that starts just left of the target line and cuts back maybe 20 yards or so right with low ball flight (low-heel contact marks on the face). If I don't turn the lead hand down and come through with this shot a little more close to center-heel I get a shot that starts a hair left and makes a big slice up to 30 yards right.

When I get the shoulder down and through I see closer to center contact and a nice towering draw ball-flight. But I only see that a handful out of every 10 shots.
 
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-CRW- said:
It's usually a slight hip shift first before hip turn, then arms. I'm usually a little more inside the plane than I would like to be when the shaft is parallel to the ground. Then right before contact I tend to come out of the swing and lift the right/rear shoulder up and across resulting in contact with the ball on the heel of the driver face.

It varies some from shot to shot but unfortunately I wouldn't describe any of the shots as a power fade or weak right. Typically it's a weak fade that starts just left of the target line and cuts back maybe 20 yards or so right with low ball flight (low-heel contact marks on the face). If I don't turn the lead hand down and come through with this shot a little more close to center-heel I get a shot that starts a hair left and makes a big slice up to 30 yards right.

When I get the shoulder down and through I see closer to center contact and a nice towering draw ball-flight. But I only see that a handful out of every 10 shots.
Click to expand...
Try something for me next time you go hit balls. Place both feet together and swing your driver.

I want you to swing arms only and take note of the balls spin. Do this a few times.

Next I want you to do the same but walk after the ball. This means that right foot will swing out and toward the target. Don't worry about how it looks. Pay attention to how it feels.

Then I want to drag the right foot off the line and spread the feet maybe just inside your shoulders. And swing along the foot line.

Pay close attention to the feeling you get at impact and the spin of the ball. The goal is to get in touch with your swing and how the club behaves with no hips, a walk through and a closed stance. All of these drill will get you swinging down your intended target line. It will also let you know the feeling you don't want with the first drill. These drill will make you better as you will know what feels good and what doesnt. They will also expose any other flaws you may have.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Try something for me next time you go hit balls. Place both feet together and swing your driver.

I want you to swing arms only and take note of the balls spin. Do this a few times.

Next I want you to do the same but walk after the ball. This means that right foot will swing out and toward the target. Don't worry about how it looks. Pay attention to how it feels.

Then I want to drag the right foot off the line and spread the feet maybe just inside your shoulders. And swing along the foot line.

Pay close attention to the feeling you get at impact and the spin of the ball. The goal is to get in touch with your swing and how the club behaves with no hips, a walk through and a closed stance. All of these drill will get you swinging down your intended target line. It will also let you know the feeling you don't want with the first drill. These drill will make you better as you will know what feels good and what doesnt. They will also expose any other flaws you may have.
Click to expand...

Sounds good. I will give it a go tonight. Thanks.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Try something for me next time you go hit balls. Place both feet together and swing your driver.

I want you to swing arms only and take note of the balls spin. Do this a few times.

Next I want you to do the same but walk after the ball. This means that right foot will swing out and toward the target. Don't worry about how it looks. Pay attention to how it feels.

Then I want to drag the right foot off the line and spread the feet maybe just inside your shoulders. And swing along the foot line.

Pay close attention to the feeling you get at impact and the spin of the ball. The goal is to get in touch with your swing and how the club behaves with no hips, a walk through and a closed stance. All of these drill will get you swinging down your intended target line. It will also let you know the feeling you don't want with the first drill. These drill will make you better as you will know what feels good and what doesnt. They will also expose any other flaws you may have.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "drag the right foot off the line"? Forward, backward, toward/away from the target?
Thanks!
 
-CRW- said:
Sounds good. I will give it a go tonight. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Just for shats and giggles. Here is something that I do when I need to feel like my back stays at the target longer. Tee up a ball and stand and face the back of the range with your feet together and the swing and hit the ball down range. It can be done. It's a good feeling.
 
Spivey said:
What do you mean by "drag the right foot off the line"? Forward, backward, toward/away from the target?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
If you are walking out of ypur swing the right foot would step or drag toward target
 
blugold said:
Just for shats and giggles. Here is something that I do when I need to feel like my back stays at the target longer. Tee up a ball and stand and face the back of the range with your feet together and the swing and hit the ball down range. It can be done. It's a good feeling.
Click to expand...

I didn't get out to the range today, but will try this when I get out. Thanks.
 
-CRW- said:
I didn't get out to the range today, but will try this when I get out. Thanks.
Click to expand...
It's a feeling thing. It won't help mechanically. But it will be good ingrain the feeling.
 
Just to follow up on this issue, the drills seemed to help some. Almost too much because I hit primarily hooks with the drills. But I also felt like I had to slow down a ton to have the coordination to hit the ball with my feet together/narrow/etc. Using the idea of keeping my back to the target longer seemed to help some as well and if I over did it my hands would overtake my body in the downswing and hit hooks.

I also tried to intentionally drop my right shoulder on the down swing and all that did was cause me to dive my irons straight into the ground and some drop kicks with the driver. However, starting my swing by turning my lead shoulder more down during the back swing seemed to help the rear shoulder follow along the same plane on the down swing/follow through.

I did start to straighten the ball flight out though and I think the combination of the drills helped achieve that by helping me sync my body and arms/hands up. I felt like I was swinging slower but doubt I was because of the distance improvement I was seeing. So I will continue to incorporate these drills to work on tempo and syncing everything up.
 
-CRW- said:
Just to follow up on this issue, the drills seemed to help some. Almost too much because I hit primarily hooks with the drills. But I also felt like I had to slow down a ton to have the coordination to hit the ball with my feet together/narrow/etc. Using the idea of keeping my back to the target longer seemed to help some as well and if I over did it my hands would overtake my body in the downswing and hit hooks.

I also tried to intentionally drop my right shoulder on the down swing and all that did was cause me to dive my irons straight into the ground and some drop kicks with the driver. However, starting my swing by turning my lead shoulder more down during the back swing seemed to help the rear shoulder follow along the same plane on the down swing/follow through.

I did start to straighten the ball flight out though and I think the combination of the drills helped achieve that by helping me sync my body and arms/hands up. I felt like I was swinging slower but doubt I was because of the distance improvement I was seeing. So I will continue to incorporate these drills to work on tempo and syncing everything up.
Click to expand...
This is the response I was looking for minus the dropping of the shoulders. If you didn't hit hooks we would have an issue. Now with the same tempo go with you normal set up and make the same swing but engage the hips to start the swing. Do not try to drop your shoulder or make adjustments.

The drill was designed to give you the feedback and shot you saw. Hooks will also come about from a lack of hip movement. You said you felt your hands, let's turn that feeling into your forearms. Take the hands out of it, release the he hips and swing toward your target. Keep the back to the target and you should start hitting nice shots.
 
Will do. My instructor also noticed at our last appointment (a month or so ago) that before when I tried to turn the knuckles down I was more handsy and over turning the lead hand/wrist versus just dragging the knuckles straight forward (back-handing the ball like you say here at THP). I realized during my range session yesterday that I was getting handsy again. I started to try and get the feel in the forearms and to just bow the lead wrist to drag the knuckles across the ball and that helped straighten the shots out as well.
 
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