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wubears71 said:
That drives me insane. On one of my favorite courses, their 1 Handicap hole (a LONG par 5) had the pin right on the slope the other day. It was so bad the flag pin was nearly leaning on the side of the cup. Every single person in my foursome 3 putted despite being all of us being within 10 feet from the hole. Talk about a major slowdown.
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Now don't get me wrong I don't mind that during slow days but when it's busy days they need to adjust that.
 
stevie-a said:
This speaks volumes to why GolfNow has become popular....discounted greens fees. If most courses standard rates were 1/2 to 3/4 of the cost they are today, those 3pm tee times might get booked.
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The irony is that GolfNow did not become popular because of discounts. It became popular because people are lazy and did not want to make calls to courses to see about openings and find out a cost. Instead they can go to a single website and find all the courses at once. Most of the golfers that use the program have no idea what the rates are regularly, if there is a discount, etc.
 
stevie-a said:
This speaks volumes to why GolfNow has become popular....discounted greens fees. If most courses standard rates were 1/2 to 3/4 of the cost they are today, those 3pm tee times might get booked.
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Most of these courses do have twilight specials at very good rates, but the time it takes out somebody's evening to play 18 is often just too much, especially with family obligations. Why not go play 9 with your buddies and still be home for dinner? Seems really viable to me.
 
blugold said:
If you only have 1.5 hours to golf and you don't call ahead to see if the course is busy, then that's on you.

I would rather play a 2.5 hour 9s than not golf.
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The course might not define 2.25 hours for 9 as busy. And I'd rather see a dentist than play 9 holes in 2.5 hr round. I was being generous with 1.5 hr 9 but I know that's a good time for most people and most situations.

I guess I just see it different. If I'm gonna play 18 and it morphs into 5.5 hrs then I'd be more "okay" with it as I know a big block of my day was already accounted for since I was playing 18 where as I'd fully expect to get in and out if I was playing 9.
 
blugold said:
Who gets to determine an appropriate pace? Most courses by me have recommended time per hole. Extending to expected time to play 9 and 18. To push a group to play faster than that is rude IMO.
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I don't think many golfers would say 5 hours is appropriate. Ultimately it is up to the consumer for what is appropriate. For me, I don't return to courses if the round is over 415. And if 9 holes took 2 hours even when it wasn't crowded in the afternoon, I would be unlikely to choose to come play then.
 
JB said:
The irony is that GolfNow did not become popular because of discounts. It became popular because people are lazy and did not want to make calls to courses to see about openings and find out a cost. Instead they can go to a single website and find all the courses at once. Most of the golfers that use the program have no idea what the rates are regularly, if there is a discount, etc.
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Thats exactly right, we often look on golf now to see what's open but usually call to make the tee times since most of the time the course will do right by us cause we go in a large group. About the only thing I use Golf now for is the hot deals since those are almost always cheaper.
 
tgtt said:
Duration was just a number with my point being just because it's less time overall doesn't necessarily mean it'd be any less frustrating.
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I got ya. I just don't like putting a time crunch on a round of golf. I'm out there to have fun and enjoy playing, and if I'm worried about time, then I'm likely not having fun. I just believe that most things are what they are, and I won't worry about something I can't control.
 
tgtt said:
The course might not define 2.25 hours for 9 as busy. And I'd rather see a dentist than play 9 holes in 2.5 hr round. I was being generous with 1.5 hr 9 but I know that's a good time for most people and most situations.

I guess I just see it different. If I'm gonna play 18 and it morphs into 5.5 hrs then I'd be more "okay" with it as I know a big block of my day was already accounted for since I was playing 18 where as I'd fully expect to get in and out if I was playing 9.
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For me, If I want to golf and need to be off the course by a certain time, I call ahead. Just because I'm playing 9, I have no expectations to zip on through.

Wake said:
I don't think many golfers would say 5 hours is appropriate. Ultimately it is up to the consumer for what is appropriate. For me, I don't return to courses if the round is over 415. And if 9 holes took 2 hours even when it wasn't crowded in the afternoon, I would be unlikely to choose to come play then.
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Depends on the course. Again, some courses, a 5 hour round is just fine. Depends on the layout.
 
blugold said:
Depends on the course. Again, some courses, a 5 hour round is just fine. Depends on the layout.
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What course is that? Do you know a single course that has 5 hour rounds as their expected pace?
 
blugold said:
Depends on the course. Again, some courses, a 5 hour round is just fine. Depends on the layout.
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My course is like this. There is so much driving between holes that getting a foursome through in under 4 hours is flying.
 
JB said:
What course is that? Do you know a single course that has 5 hour rounds as their expected pace?
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Timberstone Golf Course at the Pine Mountain Resort in Iron Mountain, Michigan. The course starts at the base of a ski mountain and goes up and down the slopes twice. There are some drives between holes and a strict 90° rule. Granted, when most people play that course they are staying for the night at the hotel.
 
JB said:
What course is that? Do you know a single course that has 5 hour rounds as their expected pace?
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Our expected pace is 4:20
 
EaglevsFalcon said:
My course is like this. There is so much driving between holes that getting a foursome through in under 4 hours is flying.
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At your course the recommended pace of play is 5 hours?
That cant be right.
 
JB said:
What course is that? Do you know a single course that has 5 hour rounds as their expected pace?
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If I walked up to a course that had a 5 hour expected POP, I would throw the clubs in my car and drive off. No thank you. Not unless you are one of those bucket list courses.
 
EaglevsFalcon said:
Our expected pace is 4:20
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Frankly that is no worse than most now since people are so slow they changed pace from 4 hours to 4:30 in most areas.
 
JB said:
The irony is that GolfNow did not become popular because of discounts. It became popular because people are lazy and did not want to make calls to courses to see about openings and find out a cost. Instead they can go to a single website and find all the courses at once. Most of the golfers that use the program have no idea what the rates are regularly, if there is a discount, etc.
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When I call the course to see if they have other options for tee times that may not be listed on Gnow, they always quote way higher than the internet price. Drives me mad. Even when comparing the courses own website to the proshop, the pricing structure is way different.

Why are they not the same? This is word for word what is listed on my home course's web site:

Lowest rates are always available online. Walk up or phone reservations are subject to higher prices than what is posted online.
 
blugold said:
For me, If I want to golf and need to be off the course by a certain time, I call ahead. Just because I'm playing 9, I have no expectations to zip on through.



Depends on the course. Again, some courses, a 5 hour round is just fine. Depends on the layout.
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A 5 hour round is fine if one isn't backed on the tee boxes or sitting in the fairway waiting for the group in front to putt out. It is total BS and poor course management when there is a group teeing off, another group sitting at the tee box waiting and then a group waiting in the fairway for the group on the green to putt out. Having essentially 4 foursomes on the same hole is unacceptable, but unfortunately too common on weekends and peak times.
 
wubears71 said:
A 5 hour round is fine if one isn't backed on the tee boxes or sitting in the fairway waiting for the group in front to putt out. It is total BS and poor course management when there is a group teeing off, another group sitting at the tee box waiting and then a group waiting in the fairway for the group on the green to putt out. Having essentially 4 foursomes on the same hole is unacceptable, but unfortunately too common on weekends and peak times.
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I agree with this. Poor etiquette is no bueno
 
JB said:
Frankly that is no worse than most now since people are so slow they changed pace from 4 hours to 4:30 in most areas.
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The course I'm thinking of in Michigan has some very strict marshals. They push slow groups. And have pulled slow groups off the course. The length of time at that course is determined by the layout.
 
blugold said:
Timberstone Golf Course at the Pine Mountain Resort in Iron Mountain, Michigan. The course starts at the base of a ski mountain and goes up and down the slopes twice. There are some drives between holes and a strict 90° rule. Granted, when most people play that course they are staying for the night at the hotel.
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And their pace of play recommendation is 5 hours?
I find that hard to believe.

Edit: Called them up. Expectation on the course is 2:15 per 9. Longer than 2:20 at the turn and they ask to move to the next hole (per the dude on the phone).
 
blugold said:
For me, If I want to golf and need to be off the course by a certain time, I call ahead. Just because I'm playing 9, I have no expectations to zip on through.



Depends on the course. Again, some courses, a 5 hour round is just fine. Depends on the layout.
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I still don't buy it, that is not an OK time St any courses, I play tough courses with long drives between holes all the time, and 430 is still way more than necessary.

Maybe if there was a tough course with long drives in a 55+ community.
 
JB said:
And their pace of play recommendation is 5 hours?
I find that hard to believe.

Edit: Called them up. Expectation on the course is 2:15 per 9. Longer than 2:20 at the turn and they ask to move to the next hole (per the dude on the phone).
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I stand corrected.

4:30 sounds better. But still longer than the Wake-TGTT standard.

Side bar - if Iron Mountain was more accessible it would be a great place for an outing.
 
JB said:
The irony is that GolfNow did not become popular because of discounts. It became popular because people are lazy and did not want to make calls to courses to see about openings and find out a cost. Instead they can go to a single website and find all the courses at once. Most of the golfers that use the program have no idea what the rates are regularly, if there is a discount, etc.
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This is so true. We are moving to a society that more and more would rather go online than actually have to talk to a person. But that is really another issue for another day.

I still hold my belief parents are simply not taking their kids to play golf. I'm not saying me, as a Dad, need to take my 3 year old out to a busy golf course. But certainly I'll be taking my kid to a kid's clinic in a couple of years. Seems like parents will take their kids to swim lessons, tee ball/baseball/softball, but not golf. And honestly, when I was a kid, most kids' golf clinics were 1-2 weeks long, which is far shorter than baseball. I participated in golf clinics from about age 5ish clear until I was 13 or 14.

And it is not a unique concept. Hear in rural Iowa, were seeing some of the bigger sports die off at the high school level. What did they do to fix that? They started having little kid leagues for those sports, so that the kids were introduced to the game earlier in their lives.

That's just my two cents. As for equipment cost, I think people have bought into marketing too much. Parents don't need to buy Callaway clubs for their 6 year old (I'm not picking on Callaway). They can if they want to, but it seems like they think that if they don't get Callaway clubs (or some other major OEM) clubs for their kid, then they are doing their kid a disservice. There is simply no reason to spend $500 on a kid who has never swung a golf club before. Goto walmart, get something cheap, let the kid learn. So I guess my argument against the 'price is a factor' point is that the parents are making price a factor for their kids clubs, because there are plenty of cheap kids sets out there.

~Rock
 
Wake said:
I still don't buy it, that is not an OK time St any courses, I play tough courses with long drives between holes all the time, and 430 is still way more than necessary.

Maybe if there was a tough course with long drives in a 55+ community.
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I'm going to be a touch glib. Have you ever played the course I'm speaking of? If not, how can you have an opinion on its recommended pace of play.
 
I've never played it and I can speak to the pace of play. There is no reason for rounds over 4:30
blugold said:
I'm going to be a touch glib. Have you ever played the course I'm speaking of? If not, how can you have an opinion on its recommended pace of play.
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