Tathata Golf

I'm on day 41 of Tathata training. I am a 7 hdcp. I've taken lessons from a lot of pros and I don't think ANY of them understand the golf swing like Bryan Hepler (Tathata Golf). My advice would be to go thru the Tathata Golf program FIRST and then see if the pro you use can further refine your swing using the Tathata principles. The difference is that Tathata is golf training vs. golf instruction. I think you'll save hundreds $$$ and reach your golfing potential much faster with a much greater understanding of the golf swing.

dhartmann34 said:

Are you having a lot of success with the program? What changes/successes have you seen?

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I think my swing has tightened up a bit. I am adding distance though it seems to be inconsistent at this point. My approach to playing has changed significantly through the mental training. Putting and chipping have probably changed the least but I am working steadily on getting that incorporated into the my game. It is mainly a feel thing there as I will leave one pitch short then fly the next one over the green. Same with putting, leaving them short then knocking them way by.

When I first started I noticed immediately my longer irons getting much better. I am also seeing better driving. Again, inconsistent but I do see improvements. I did not have a big problem adopting the new movements for the most part. Backswing and transition are the biggest changes for me as I was working hard on getting layoff and increased forearm rotation into my swing and now not so much. It has simplified what I try to do on my backswing and transition but it is different feels. The strength and speed drills seem to help a lot with that part of the swing.

I like the mental training with the whole "energy out front" concept. Not for everyone for sure.

As to how this compares to Joey D stuff I have no reference as I have never seen his stuff. Bryan teaches a swing that is very much driven from the ground up. The first chapter on body movements had some of the biggest impacts on my swing. I think between Bryan Hepler, John Erickson over at ABS, and Bradley Hughes these guys understand the swing better than most anybody else I have seen. George Gankas also has a great grasp but I find his teaching a bit harder to incorporate. I took some video lessons from Bobby Lopez and Tathata would basically disagree with most of what Bobby teaches - increase spine tilt, get behind the ball, and passively drop the club from the top.

Tathata is not revolutionary in terms of the fundamentals but certainly the teaching method is very different from seeing a PGA pro and certainly what Bryan emphasizes is not seen in most modern teaching.

57 - thanks very much for making the effort to post your experiences. I also admire your and Desmond's diligence in sticking with the program. One thing I'm very curious about - your first post had you as a 16 (and Desmond's as a 9) and so does your last post. Is that accurate or have you not been able to play enough to impact your handicap? I've taken tons of lessons (100+) and most of them were not helpful. Some of that was my impatience with looking for results but some was also a lack of impactful teaching. Last year I had an org talk to me about investing $1K in their hi-tech training (tec - hint) and when I countered with a "pay for improvement" relationship they balked. I committed to following their program exactly as they recommend, and would have paid double what they were asking if the improvements were as advertised, but for some reason they declined. That's been my issue.

Regardless, I'm going to do Tathata because the only thing greater than my lost ball count is my optimism that I can be good at this game with the right coaching. Wish me luck, and I wish you the same.

Desmond - much thanks for all your posts. I'm going to do the program and would usually write about my experience but I can't see a reason for trying to add onto what you've contributed. Super detailed, and extra kudos for how much time you practice. I've done so much range work I've had 2 cortisone shots in my shoulder but you sir, are the practice king. ; ) What I will share is any progress made with my handicap once I've had a chance to bring this to the course. I have 2 big golf trips the latter half of 2017 that I'll be using as motivation for sticking with Tathata, and I hope to be down to a 7 or lower by the time they roll around. And thanks also for the Belen Mozo tip. : )

I am seriously thinking about this. If I bought the DVD's as well as a gift, what will the person not have access to that the digital version does?

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ILoveHateGolf said:

57 - thanks very much for making the effort to post your experiences. I also admire your and Desmond's diligence in sticking with the program. One thing I'm very curious about - your first post had you as a 16 (and Desmond's as a 9) and so does your last post. Is that accurate or have you not been able to play enough to impact your handicap? I've taken tons of lessons (100+) and most of them were not helpful. Some of that was my impatience with looking for results but some was also a lack of impactful teaching. Last year I had an org talk to me about investing $1K in their hi-tech training (tec - hint) and when I countered with a "pay for improvement" relationship they balked. I committed to following their program exactly as they recommend, and would have paid double what they were asking if the improvements were as advertised, but for some reason they declined. That's been my issue.

Regardless, I'm going to do Tathata because the only thing greater than my lost ball count is my optimism that I can be good at this game with the right coaching. Wish me luck, and I wish you the same.

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I've been doing this straight through - meaning in about 60 days. That is only about a half dozen rounds of golf. Undergoing a large swing change takes time (I've done 2 of them over the last few years). First you have to learn the movements, then train your body to execute them without thinking about them, then be able to perform under pressure. I've seen some improvements already as I have stated earlier but also things are in a bit of flux, especially around the short game. I've come up with a plan over the next few months where every week I am going to work on a portion of the program - stretching, strength drills, and one of the chapter lessons. Also, I am going to start raising expectations - first will be keeping the ball in play off the tee and to the green, then start getting the ball close to the hole, then start hitting specific targets. Honing in the accuracy and the feel for distance.

Get a feel for what is realistic in terms of improvements - what are your misses, what is keeping you from getting your scores lower, will a swing change address those issues? My issues are consistency and developing feel in the short game. I always have that one screw up per almost every hole, whether it is a botched drive, missed green, flubbed chip, or missed putt. So I just have to work on tightening everything up, get more consistent. That is what you have to ask yourself. There was a time when I was a 10 HC. Mainly I was able to work on my concentration and consistency to keep the misses smaller.

Good luck on your journey and I'll be watching for update. In the end it is up to you - how willing you are to commit to the work.

I finished up all 60 days over the weekend. Great instruction and I look forward to working it more into my game. Also played a tournament over the weekend and though I didn't shoot great I was pretty consistent with my iron play. What I liked is that my putting and short game are slowly starting to improve. This has always been an issue with my game so I didn't have any reservations applying the short game lessons. Putting is pretty much a body-motivated swing. Not a handsy old-school putting motion, but not a pendulum/momentum swing either. The chipping and pitching are pretty much miniature versions of the full swing. Bryan does get you to recognize the bounce and use that in your swing. So it is a shallow approach and again driven by the lower body and torso. Right now my biggest struggle with chipping and pitching is just getting the feel for the distances. I'm hitting a lot of pitch shots long so I end up either way above the hole or worse, chipping down hill from behind the green.

I like where the mental training has me. It's a bit mystical but it resonated with me and I like how I approach the game now. The daily ups and downs of a round or a hole don't really bother me much as I am learning to focus much more long term. It's about keeping my energy level up and consistent and always looking ahead.

As I described earlier, all the video lessons are now broken out so I can go back and pick and choose routines to work on. I'm going to try working on stretching 3 days a week along with a specific movement routine for those same 3 days - basically about a 45 minute workout. The other two days I will do the strength and speed routine to help me get stronger with the movements. Tathata is very much based on pressures and delivering a strike into the ball. Core strength is required and also flexibility, especially in the hip flexors. Being able to really spring up to the finish is key to distance with this swing and I'm finding that more flexibility can only help there.

If it doesn't rain on Wednesday I'll try to get a video and post it to the 'Tube and link it up. I'm sure I can do a before and after for comparison basis.

I haven't played seriously in over 10 years, looking for something to get back into it. I can still drive the ball pretty consistently, but iron play is horrid and inconsistent. Does someone need to be an experienced golfer to do Tahata and get the benefit. I thought of just jumping back in with an instructor, but would love to work on it on my own for a bit first.

tsmith76 said:

I haven't played seriously in over 10 years, looking for something to get back into it. I can still drive the ball pretty consistently, but iron play is horrid and inconsistent. Does someone need to be an experienced golfer to do Tahata and get the benefit. I thought of just jumping back in with an instructor, but would love to work on it on my own for a bit first.

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I would say you would be fine. You can take your time and advance through the lessons at a pace comfortable to you. It is all progressive.

Lots of guests perusing this thread so there's obviously a LOT of interest. My instructor is using this stuff in my lessons and it has been great. I still haven't pulled the trigger on buying it though.
I feel like it may be better for me once the weather gets colder.

It looks like the only option for purchasing is the digital streaming version at $179.95, right? You can only buy the DVDs as an add-on if you have already bought the streaming version. I might be willing to buy the DVDs second hand, but I'm not likely to spend $200 (incl. tax) on a streaming version.

campilobaxter said:

It looks like the only option for purchasing is the digital streaming version at $179.95, right? You can only buy the DVDs as an add-on if you have already bought the streaming version. I might be willing to buy the DVDs second hand, but I'm not likely to spend $200 (incl. tax) on a streaming version.

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Yeah I wish you could just buy the DVD's as well but the digital version isn't so bad from what I hear.

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dhartmann34 said:

Yeah I wish you could just buy the DVD's as well but the digital version isn't so bad from what I hear.

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I like the on-line version. I am finished with the program but like going back to the different movement routines to continue to work the program. Once you finish the 60-day program, all the routines, laydowns, stretching, and deeper discussions are available as individual videos. Plus they throw in a couple of new routines for variety.

Each week I go back and work on one of the first 3 chapters, plus I will throw in a strength workout and one of the grad-school workouts. I also try to do the stretching routine each day.

I finished the program. I completed the six chapters (10 lessons per chapter), but for some reason along day 53 or so I pretty much lost my mojo, which either has something to do with the lessons being extremely repetitive or my short attention span. Probably the latter. Still, I plodded on and got through it. What follows would be five things I liked, and five I didn't.

Likes

1. I admire Bryan Hepler's enthusiasm. He brought energy to each lesson along with a sense of trying to find something new in the routines we were doing.

2. One of my major takeaways from Tathata is how important it is to stretch, and how inflexible I am in doing it. Though we didn't go through the stretching exercises each lesson, he does encourage students to stretch on their own, which I did. If I saw any major improvements from the beginning of the program to the end, it would be in my flexibility, with miles more still to go.

3. The program does nice job of breaking down the swing, chipping and putting motions into individual pieces/movements.

4. I think Tathata is a great off season program. When conditions outside were unplayable, it was a nice to have a golfing outlet each day.

5. It is impossible to go through these lessons and not have the key concept of realizing your own "authentic greatness" seep into your consciousness.

Dislikes

1. It's hard to imagine an entire 60-day program that does not include demonstrating the hitting of a golf ball. Not once are any of three instructors actually shown putting all the movements together to hit a golf ball. It would have been tremendously helpful to have seen one of them take a full swing and then have the separate movements they have been teaching to us pointed out in the swing. The same was true for putting and chipping; all movements, no striking of the ball. They did show pictures of professionals that reinforced their teachings, but I suspect a little cherry-picking was involved.

2. It's hard to imagine a 60-day program that offers no special instruction on the hitting of a driver. Everything is done with a "stock 7-iron" swing in mind. In any given round, how many times are we going to hit a 7-iron compared to a driver? It's not even close, right. They did talk a little bit about spreading your legs wider when hitting and driver, but that's about it. Even if the message would be "swing exactly the same with a driver as a 7-iron," if would have been nice to hear it. Plus, we all know you don't swing the same with those two clubs.

3. By about the 7th lesson or so I had already heard about enough of the phrase "absolutely crucial." If everything is absolutely crucial, then nothing is. When going through the putting routine we learned that stepping to the hole after completing the stroke is also "absolutely crucial." I suppose taking my clubs out of the trunk would qualify as well.

4. The ultimate goal of Tathata is to put all of these movements together in such a way the swing occurs without even thinking about it so one does not "stop time" and can sense your "greatness out in front." Ok, that's fine. But the swing routine includes about 15 movements, and then there the strength, speed, trajectory and pressure routines. Since doing Tathata it is not uncommon for me to have to step away from a shot because I've got so many ideas and concepts brainlocking me. I'm sure over time this can be overcome, but it's hard to just let it flow when you can literally have 50 or so Tathata swing thoughts pinballing through your head.

5. Bryan Helper puts extreme faith in "knowing who you are," which evidently is supposed to take the place of practicing. He doesn't go as far as to say you don't need to practice, but there are a number times when he pretty clearly delivers a message you shouldn't have to spend a lot of time on the range or putting green work once you know who you are. It's considered a bit of a weakness to feel it necessary to hit range balls. The idea being that if you are practicing, then you must not have confidence in the routines he's taught. He actually compares it driving a car, meaning if you have an accident you don't question your ability to drive a car. If you have a poor round, there's no need to work it on the range because "you know who you are." Trust me, if I was aiming my car down the middle of the road and suddenly swerved 50 yards right, or left, I DO think I might consider taking some driving lessons. Yea, I know who I am. I'm a guy who played horribly today and needs the extra practice. Now I just need to keep the car on the road while I'm driving to the course.

Is the program worth it? Yes, I think so, though your mileage may vary. In my experience there were a lot of peaks and valleys. There is a chapter about pressure that really wreaked havoc with swing. I can't say I have never shanked the ball, but I could honestly say that I had gone years since my last shank. After trying to implement the many components of applying the pressure, I got the shanks bad. If my game had been a horse it would have been shot. In fairness maybe this was not a cause & effect situation, and I was just overdue for a bout with the shanks. I doubt it though. Still, I do think it will be helpful to go back from time-to-time to review the some of the concepts taught through the program. For the $180 price tag I probably would have been better to go through some real lessons, but for the winter months when there's no golf to be had, it's not a bad alternative.

Great review! I'm contemplating this for the colder months...which are about 6, here in Illinois. I'm taking live lessons now and hopefully this
program will keep me in step during the off season. It helps that my instructor actually teachers with this method.

MUTiger said:

I finished the program. I completed the five 5 chapters (10 lessons per chapter), but for some reason along day 53 or so I pretty much lost my mojo. Still, I plodded on and got through it. What follows would be five things I liked, and five I didn't.

Likes

1. I admire Bryan Hepler's enthusiasm. He brought energy to each lesson along with a sense of trying to find something new in the routines we were doing.

2. One of my major takeaways from Tathata is how important it is to stretch, and how inflexible I am in doing it. Though we didn't go through the stretching exercises each lesson, he does encourage students to stretch on their own, which I did. If I saw any major improvements from the beginning of the program to the end, it would be in my flexibility, with miles more still to go.

3. The program does nice job of breaking down the swing, chipping and putting motions into individual pieces/movements.

4. I think Tathata is a great off season program. When conditions outside were unplayable, it was a nice to have a golfing outlet each day.

5. It is impossible to go through these lessons and not have the key concept of realizing your own "authentic greatness" seep into your consciousness.

Dislikes

1. It's hard to imagine an entire 60-day program that does not include demonstrating the hitting of a golf ball. Not once are any of three instructors actually shown putting all the movements together to actually hit a golf ball. It would have been tremendously helpful to have seen one of them take a full swings and then have the separate movements they have been teaching to us pointed out in the swing. The same was true for putting and chipping; all movements, no striking of the ball. They did show pictures of professionals that reinforced their teachings, but I suspect a little cherry-picking was involved.

2. It's hard to imagine a 60-day program that offers no special instruction on the hitting of a driver. Everything is done with a "stock 7-iron" swing in mind. In any given round, how many times are we going to hit a 7-iron compared to a driver? It's not even close, right. They did talk a little bit about spreading your legs wider when hitting and driver, but that's about it. Even if the message would be "swing exactly the same with a driver as a 7-iron," if would have been nice to hear it. Plus, we all know you don't swing the same with those two clubs.

3. By about the 7th lesson or so I had already heard about enough of the phrase "absolutely crucial." If everything is absolutely crucial, then nothing is. Later when going through the putting routine we learned that stepping to the hole after completing the stroke is also "absolutely crucial." I suppose taking my clubs out of the trunk would qualify as well.

4. The ultimate goal of Tathata is to put all of these movements together in such a way the swing occurs without even thinking about it so one does not "stop time" and can sense your "greatness out in front." Ok, that's fine. But the swing routine includes about 15 movements, and then there the strength, speed, trajectory and pressure routines. Since doing Tathata it is not uncommon for me to have to step away from a shot because I've got so many ideas and concepts brainlocking me. I'm sure over time this can be overcome, but it's hard to just let it flow when you can literally have 40 or so Tathata swing thoughts pinballing through your head.

5. Bryan Helper puts extreme faith in "knowing who you are," which evidently is supposed to take the place of practicing. He doesn't go as far as to say you don't need to practice, but there are a number times when he pretty clearly delivers a message you shouldn't have to spend a lot of time on the range or putting green work once you know who you are. It's considered a bit of a weakness to feel it necessary to hit range balls. The idea being that if you are practicing, then you must not have confidence in the routines he's taught. He actually compares it driving a car, meaning if you have an accident you don't question your ability to drive a car. If you have a poor round, there's no need to work it on the range because "you know who you are." Yea, I know who I am. I'm a guy who played horribly today and needs the extra practice.

Is the program worth it? Yes, I think so, though your mileage may vary. In my experience there were a lot of peaks and valleys. There is a chapter about pressure that really wreaked havoc with swing. I can't say I have never shanked the ball, but I could honestly say that I had gone years since my last shank. After trying to implement the many components of applying the pressure, I got the shanks bad. If my game had been a horse it would have been shot. In fairness maybe this was not a cause & effect situation, and I was just overdue for a bout with the shanks. I doubt it though. Still, I do think it will be helpful to go back from time-to-time to review the some of the concepts taught through the program. For the $180 price tag I probably would have been better to go through some real lessons, but for the winter months when there's no golf to be had, it's not a bad alternative.

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Thanks for this.

rightsiderough said:

No Response means no one bought the snake oil. I'll do it though!

So Day 1 Tathata Golf 60 Day Program:

I can deal with this guy. The infomercials are pretty cheesy, but you got a sense of the actual nuts and bolts of the training despite that. It is pretty close to other people's description of a yoga instructor. It is very similar to any martial arts training you've done, if you've ever done any. (I didn't do anything wimpy btw, just some basic mma style stuff, wrestling and bjj). Day 1 goes through set up and starts building out a backswing, but in very small movements and gives great in depth instructions on how each part should feel. Touches on feet, alignment, how open/closed, how the knees should feel, how back should feel, head should feel, hips should feel. Starts building out an athletic back swing and how the weight should be distributed. This is all pretty good stuff.
I tend to overanalyze things and in the couple years I have been playing golf, I have kind of experimented in my swing with how much of everything should happen as far as movement and set up (this is even with pga instruction). This is way more in depth then you get in a lesson. From day 1 in seems like you're essentially going to get 60 hours of instruction from the ground up, without the rushed feeling of a typical lesson. I have a lot of questions about a ton of different things in my lessons. How much weight should I feel in my back foot, where should I feel pressure. Things like that. This may not be perfect, but it's something I can do on my own in my house, everyday, whether or not I can get out to the range or course. I'll take it. I'll keep you updated as I move through as I remember to and let you know if/when there is a letdown and how it translates to the actual swing.

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Anyone have issues with his 'pressure' stuff. I was getting a lot out of it and was really striking the ball better until I got to that chapter. Totally threw me off. I just took and passed the quizzes and moved on without actually incorporating this into my swing.

So, rightsiderough, did it work well?

So, rightsiderough, did it work well?

rightsiderough said:

I saw the commercials for this and liked the idea of it. In doing more research it seems like they provide extremely useful information on how all the individual movements in a swing should feel as well as building a swing from the ground up. I did read the other forums entire thread. I know I am going to hate listening to the instructors new age crap and enthusiasm. (New Englanders hate enthusiasm). Reaching out to see if anyone has been gone through this and their experience.

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I tried to follow your experience to the end of the program, but couldn't find the concluding episodes. Was it time & money well spent? Are you striking the ball well on the course?

I paid my money for the full Tathata program. I am a 12 handicap working hard to get better. I have bought many instructional programs.
I would say this is a total waste of money to get better at the game of golf if you already can play with even a moderate level of competence. Brian Helper is in great shape and clearly knows a lot about martial arts but golf ??? He spends hours trying to brainwash you into "summoning your internal greatness". I just want to know how to hit the golf ball decently.

Do yourself a favour and take a look at Mike Malaska and his teaching program. You will get a lot more out of it if you want to improve your golf.

Hi everyone, I know tathata golf has been around for a while now, its always intrigued me but I've never gone ahead and signed up. Recently i saw a box set of the DVDs on ebay and I've gone ahead and purchased.


The box set is unfortunately missing disc 20 which is lessons 39 & 40.. does anyone have this disc, downloaded copies of these lessons, or access to the website to download them? I know it's a bit of an ask but if I'm going to follow the programme i would really like to be able to do all sessions.. Thanks in advance kind golfer!

skross said:

I paid my money for the full Tathata program. I am a 12 handicap working hard to get better. I have bought many instructional programs.
I would say this is a total waste of money to get better at the game of golf if you already can play with even a moderate level of competence. Brian Helper is in great shape and clearly knows a lot about martial arts but golf ??? He spends hours trying to brainwash you into "summoning your internal greatness". I just want to know how to hit the golf ball decently.

Do yourself a favour and take a look at Mike Malaska and his teaching program. You will get a lot more out of it if you want to improve your golf.

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I could have told ya that when I saw McCord in the commercials....

Their initial commercials a few years ago made it seem like they were a serious company. Are they still that way? Because the latest promotions they've put out don't suggest so.