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Wedge game and chipping.

Gulby

Gulby

#SemiPro
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Vancouver, BC
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RCGA 12.9
I have been losing quite a few strokes lately with my poor play around the green. My issue seems to be I just can not generate any back spin. I know you are suppose to hit the ball first, hands in front of the ball at impact, but I find it really hard while chipping. So what ends up happening is I get no back spin and the ball just rolls right away from the hole most of the time, even on my approach shots from 100- 150 yards which I strike perfectly.

Any help, or practice drills I can work on would be amazing as I want to drop my scores and work on my game.

Thanks to all who chime in!
 
Is a simple bump and run not an option?
 
Gulby said:
I have been losing quite a few strokes lately with my poor play around the green. My issue seems to be I just can not generate any back spin. I know you are suppose to hit the ball first, hands in front of the ball at impact, but I find it really hard while chipping. So what ends up happening is I get no back spin and the ball just rolls right away from the hole most of the time, even on my approach shots from 100- 150 yards which I strike perfectly.

Any help, or practice drills I can work on would be amazing as I want to drop my scores and work on my game.

Thanks to all who chime in!
Click to expand...

Are you getting your hands too far in front of you while chipping? It sounds to me like you're actually just hitting a bump and run.
 
Getting the ball to spin around the greens is a very difficult thing to do IMO. It should be a last resort type of thing. If there is any other option play that shot first. For me spinning the ball around the green is all about the lie and perfect contact.
 
If you are talking about a small chip around the green, nobody gets a ton of spin of those shots. Not even the pros. Part of the spin equation is club head speed and you can't have too much for those type of shots. JB's mention of the bump and run is the way to go with those shots. Try different clubs from your highest lofted wedge down to your short irons to see how they perform for you and how much roll out you can expect from each.

When it comes to pitches from a little longer out, I still think the best you can hope for is the one hop and stop landing. Again, club speed (or lack-thereof) pays a big roll here.

In my opinion it's going to take 50+ yards before you can generate enough club speed to give your ball a chance to spin back any.

All that being said, you can help yourself with spin by playing the right shafts for you, ensuring the club face and grooves are clean, using a urethane ball, and technique to achieve optimal spin loft for the desired shot (which is more than just, and not always, hitting down on the ball or with your hands in front of the ball at impact).
 
Some practice always helps but if you are struggling getting spin then start playing the rollout instead of relying on the spin. May take a few rounds to get used to it but that's what I would do if you can't generate the spin.
 
-CRW- said:
All that being said, you can help yourself with spin by playing the right shafts for you
Click to expand...

I have to ask here, how much spin difference do you think a shaft is going to play on short game shots, or even in your example of 50 yards. Even shafts designed to create more spin (DG Spinners) are creating only several hundred RPMs.
 
JB said:
Is a simple bump and run not an option?
Click to expand...
No, not at all. I play the bump and run, but I guess the reason is I hit it too hard all the time. I guess easy solution is to ease up. but I was hoping to try and find a way to get a bit of spin to slow it up a bit.
 
JB said:
I have to ask here, how much spin difference do you think a shaft is going to play on short game shots, or even in your example of 50 yards. Even shafts designed to create more spin (DG Spinners) are creating only several hundred RPMs.
Click to expand...

Next to nothing around the green, but at 50+ yards I see significant discrepancies in spin for me depending on shaft (always too much with the wrong shaft). But my point was the opposite for most players in that you can't expect spin to work in your favor if you are playing shafts that are too heavy/stiff for you.

And that's not to suggest that the OP is playing the wrong shafts. Just a general recommendation for anyone looking to improve their spin on approach shots.
 
Gulby said:
No, not at all. I play the bump and run, but I guess the reason is I hit it too hard all the time. I guess easy solution is to ease up. but I was hoping to try and find a way to get a bit of spin to slow it up a bit.
Click to expand...

Its certainly an option. For short shots, easiest way to judge spin is to hit it like you would a putt, if you are really struggling. Ball in the back of your stance. Weight pointed towards the target and butt end of the club delofting a bit. Then however hard you would hit the putt, you would chip the ball. With even a small amount of practice, you will have it down pat.
 
-CRW- said:
Next to nothing around the green, but at 50+ yards I see significant discrepancies in spin for me depending on shaft (always too much with the wrong shaft). But my point was the opposite for most players in that you can't expect spin to work in your favor if you are playing shafts that are too heavy/stiff for you.
Click to expand...

What is significant? I mean at 50 yards using a wedge you are talking up there in spin. Robots show several hundred which would not change a person much. Our testing shows less than 500. Can you be sure contact is not the issue here, leading to compression of the ball? Genuine question.
 
JB said:
What is significant? I mean at 50 yards using a wedge you are talking up there in spin. Robots show several hundred which would not change a person much. Our testing shows less than 500. Can you be sure contact is not the issue here, leading to compression of the ball?
Click to expand...

Sure club speed and compression is playing a big role. But an example for me would be a 65 yard shot. When I played the J15 CB's with DG Spinners in a 54* my ball would go 10 yards higher and several yards shorter compared to making the same swing with a 54* SM5 Vokey with X100. The J15's would spin the ball back 4+ feet. The X100's still spin the ball back a foot or two at that distance for me which is plenty for me. I also felt like I had less control with the Spinners which led to less predictability from shot to shot - even on well struck shots (for me) that went relatively straight. And it's 10* worse in wind speeds of 15+ mph (from either direction).

Is it enough to make a discernible difference from shot to shot or in average scores, I don't know. But it is a factor and in my opinion, worth consideration when trying to find the best clubs for you.
 
-CRW- said:
Sure club speed and compression is playing a big role. But an example for me would be a 65 yard shot. When I played the J15 CB's with DG Spinners in a 54* my ball would go 10 yards higher and several yards shorter compared to making the same swing with a 54* SM5 Vokey with X100. The J15's would spin the ball back 4+ feet. The X100's still spin the ball back a foot or two at that distance for me which is plenty for me. I also felt like I had less control with the Spinners which led to less predictability from shot to shot - even on well struck shots (for me) that went relatively straight. And it's 10* worse in wind speeds of 15+ mph (from either direction).

Is it enough to make a discernible difference from shot to shot or in average scores, I don't know. But it is a factor and in my opinion, worth consideration when trying to find the best clubs for you.
Click to expand...

Honest question again. How do you know that is a shaft spin issue if the two heads are different, no monitor is being used to judge spin, etc?
 
Gulby said:
No, not at all. I play the bump and run, but I guess the reason is I hit it too hard all the time. I guess easy solution is to ease up. but I was hoping to try and find a way to get a bit of spin to slow it up a bit.
Click to expand...

If you're already hitting bump and runs too hard, trying to get the ball to spin will probably only make you try and hit it harder, and you might find yourself going even further past than before. Instead of worrying about spin, I'd focus on learning how to gauge the roll out and practice your touch on those. I'd almost just try to get the ball to pop up a little in the air, and then see how much roll you're getting based on how hard you hit it. The check will come with proper ball contact as you get the hang of it more.
 
I agree with much of what CRW is saying. For short little touch shots its very tough to generate much spin, you simply can't use the speed required to impart significant spin, unless you play a flop and thats just a whole new danger. Learning how to play the bump and run or a high soft shot that releases very little because of its trajectory will be hugely helpful. Developing a good bump and run can be huge to one's game. These feel shots require a bit of imagination, a touch of vision to see the shot and loads of practice. Put in the time and you will see the benefits.

As for spin in the longer ranges, its not a secret. You need a descending blow and a good golf ball suited for you. If its not happening consult a pro and have them make some adjustments.
 
JB said:
Honest question again. How do you know that is a shaft spin issue if the two heads are different, no monitor is being used to judge spin, etc?
Click to expand...

Because I have hit both on a monitor numerous times and know those two heads made very little difference in spin for me. Nothing at all quantitative when trying to make the same style shot. Certainly not enough to assume it wasn't me from shot to shot.
 
To the OP, you have described shots from on the fringe out to 150 yards. Those are all different situations and different shots. The stop and hop shot that I think you are actually asking about is from, I don't know, 30-50 yards? Can you clarify if you are asking about a particular shot or if you are looking to generate more spin on all s***s into the green?


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I typically chip with anything from 8i to gw depending on the distance and any obstacles. I have found that using my 8 and 9 iron and playing the chip more like a putt leads me to a much closer proximity to the hole. Also helps because I play NXT Tour S balls and I know they are going to hop a couple times and release nicely.
 
tequila4kapp said:
To the OP, you have described shots from on the fringe out to 150 yards. Those are all different situations and different shots. The stop and hop shot that I think you are actually asking about is from, I don't know, 30-50 yards? Can you clarify if you are asking about a particular shot or if you are looking to generate more spin on all s***s into the green?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I guess it's broken into 2 shots, 1 chipping around the green 10 yards to 30 yards which i just want to slow up and not roll for 10-20 feet, then on my full wedges 80-140 yards I want to bounce then stop, or spin back
 
I struggled with what I perceived as your problem from what I read on your first post. On half shots from all over the green and from different distances where a bump and run just doesn't fit right I needed help.
Long story short I lacked proper shaft lean with hands before the ball and a lack of acceleration through the ball. I was releasing the hands early, hitting it fat and the dreaded deceleration.
For me the easiest way to work through this issue was done on a launch monitor so you can see the spin increase on different techniques of theses short chips. It also helped a ton on the 100 yard shots that just wouldn't stop. Yes the bump and run is near fool proof and using different clubs as the terrain changes gives you a lot of options. But to learn that short shot and maintain consistent spin, hands ahead of the ball, accelerate and ball first, its fun to hit that shot. It takes a lot of practice and you will frequently go back to old habbits. Once mastered it opens up a lot of opportunities. But,,,,, it takes a lot of practice.
Knowing when to hit this shot is just as big of a struggle.
 
JB said:
Is a simple bump and run not an option?
Click to expand...

The toe-down bumper has been a game-changer for me. Prior to, I tried to get way too cute on short game shots all the time.
 
JB said:
Honest question again. How do you know that is a shaft spin issue if the two heads are different, no monitor is being used to judge spin, etc?
Click to expand...

Here is the reason I asked. Here Roger Cleveland discusses the shaft part of the equation.

Check out the 9:30 mark.

 
Short shots around the green I use trajectory to stop the ball unless I'm in a bunker where based on swing speed alone I can generate enough spin to stop the ball. 30-60 yards is usually my 56 slightly toe'd in with shallow angle of attack will give me hop, hop check or hop, hop release depending on needs.
 
Last edited:
Gulby said:
No, not at all. I play the bump and run, but I guess the reason is I hit it too hard all the time. I guess easy solution is to ease up. but I was hoping to try and find a way to get a bit of spin to slow it up a bit.
Click to expand...

look at club selection and landing spot. It sounds like around the green you are already play a bump and run based on the 10-20' roll out you are talking about. For chips around the green I use a pw or even 9i sometime a 7i depending on where the flag is. If it's close then I use the pw. Key is to find the club that will land about 1/3 of the way there and roll out to the hole. I have been told to get the ball on the ground ASAP and lye it run like a putt.

for the longer shots in the 30-50 yard range to get the ball to hop and stop the swing should be shallow and out to the right trying to hit a draw and keep the club low and "around" the body to help keep the ball down and get it to stop once on the green.

Check out video in first post http://www.thehackersparadise.com/f...adley-Short-Game-Tip&highlight=Keegan+Bradley
 
I have noticed a few speaking about toe'd. Can someone explain please
 
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