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women equality in sports

Smallville said:
Because they hit the ball so far is actually what makes me relate LESS to the men's tour. The LPGA distances are more in line with what I see on the course on a regular basis. (Just the distance, not the level pf play, of course).

I relate better to the women who hit drives 230-260 than the guys where the #185 guy is 270. 190 yard 9 irons and PW's? How many actually relate to that? Some here, but not many.
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I can't dunk a basketball but that doesn't mean I feel like I should watch the WNBA.
 
tgtt said:
I can't dunk a basketball but that doesn't mean I feel like I should watch the WNBA.
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Never said I don't like to watch the PGA. Did I? I don't think I said that. If I did, please show me where I said that.

I was replying to a post who said men RELATE to the men's tour because they hit the ball so far. I am not a long knocker, which is why I RELATE to the women's tour better, for how they hit the ball.

Or are you just trying to stir things up again?
 
Simmer down everybody. A civil conversation can be had.
 
Tadashi70 said:
What goal are women fighting for?
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That's an excellent question Freddie!
For me, the goal would be to have gender be invisible when it comes to sports, golf in particular. That it doesn't matter if the event has an L in front of PGA or not - anyone would still want to tune in and watch because they know it will be good golf. We'll know we've gotten there when we start having discussions on the amazing shots a player made in any given event without discussion of gender and we won't have discussions like these. It really shouldn't matter because golf is golf, no matter what gender is standing behind the ball.

I've been thinking this whole female in Golf/sports thing this morning (instead of listening to my Python programming instructor...oops!) I think the real question is what's causing the underlying issue of lack of viewer interest/significant sponsorship for LPGA events or the more general gender inequality in sports? Is it that the majority of viewers, spectators are male and relate better to male to male competitions? Or is it that females in sports aren't commonplace enough to make gender a non-issue? Or is it the lack of standout players within the LPGA (i.e. Annika)? We need to understand the fundamental problem in order to address it. I can accept that we (females) are never really going to drive the golf equipment market. I would like to get to a point where our needs are at least seriously considered and not as much of an afterthought.

What led to the equity in male/female prize money for tennis major events? Can that trigger be replicated or applied to golf?

(BTW, I find it interesting that I am the only female in a class of 20 students in this programming class. It's not just sports that struggles with this issue. )
 
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I wonder if some of the OP's opinion comes from the fact that the military are putting more women in combat roles. But, they are requiring the female soldier to meet the same physical requirements as the male soldier.

It's tough to be in the foxhole with someone who you know isn't strong enought to drag/carry your a$$ back to safety, should that need arise.
 
This may be a complete non sequitur, but I know of at least a few people that chose to watch the 2013 Morgan Cup coverage over a certain PGA event which aired at the same time.


I'm sorry, but the "men are bigger and stronger" arguments in this thread just don't really work in my opinion. Strength and size are just not the most important factors in golf athleticism. There are so many women in the LPGA that just plain play great golf. The talent may not be as deep as the PGA, but I would posit that that's because you can make a pretty decent living at the bottom of the PGA, but that doesn't work out so well in the LPGA. The total purse for most LPGA events are barely equal to the winner's share of a PGA event. The lack of equity between the two pay scales is completely driven by sexism - on the parts of networks, sponsors, and viewers alike.

Low end PGA tournaments are sponsored by companies like John Deere and still end up with weekend coverage by CBS and NBC. Low end LPGA tournaments get regional groceries for sponsors and may be lucky to get late night hours on the Golf Channel.
 
When I read " There's a reason why we don't have men competing against women in most sports." in deleebar's post (I seem to be having problems with the "reply with quote function"),

I thought of KellyBo and Buckjob winning the competition at this year's Outing. It was the great skill of both players - gender had nothing to do with it.
 
I wonder how much more attention the LPGA would get if it was marketed as much as the PGA is.

As far as men being stronger. Watching on TV, distance doesn't do a whole lot for me. You can't even see the whole drive anyways. You see a close up of them teeing off, and then an aerial view that's zoomed in way too far. The precision shots are much more fun to watch on TV.
 
I don't think it's so much the drivers that really sets men apart when you watching on TV but the five irons from 230 yards and shots like that which stand out more.

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toughestsoldier said:
I don't think it's so much the drivers that really sets men apart when you watching on TV but the five irons from 230 yards and shots like that which stand out more.

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So if its a distance thing for you, I would assume you would much prefer to watch Bam Bam Lincicome play to that of Luke Donald, Zach Johnson, Brian Gay and a host of other PGA Tour players?
 
toughestsoldier said:
I don't think it's so much the drivers that really sets men apart when you watching on TV but the five irons from 230 yards and shots like that which stand out more.

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Really? I can go watch people hit 230 all day long. Pretty much every golfer, pro and amateur can hit 230. Doesn't matter what club it's with; not sure how many players are hitting 5i 230 btw. If I'm watching for power, I want to see 300+ yard drives
 
Serious questions...

1. "Where exactly is the inequality that was the basis for this thread?"
2. Regarding money, marketing, etc..."People a whole lot smarter and in the know are making these decisions and we know that we live in a capitalist society, so doesn't it hold that if women's sports could create the cash stream of men's sports, they would then be marketed and paid accordingly?"

My opinion is that "women getting paid less" is business related due to the politics that come with them generating less revenue, however Augusta's treatment of women = women's inequality.
 
Jericho said:
Serious questions...

1. "Where exactly is the inequality that was the basis for this thread?"
2. Regarding money, marketing, etc..."People a whole lot smarter and in the know are making these decisions and we know that we live in a capitalist society, so doesn't it hold that if women's sports could create the cash stream of men's sports, they would then be marketed and paid accordingly?"

My opinion is that "women getting paid less" is business related due to the politics that come with them generating less revenue, however Augusta's treatment of women = women's inequality.
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One can make that case in sponsored events. Majors are not necessarily part of that and the reason that others sports similar to golf, have gone to equal pay for both parties (see tennis) in the championship events.
 
JB said:
One can make that case in sponsored events. Majors are not necessarily part of that and the reason that others sports similar to golf, have gone to equal pay for both parties (see tennis) in the championship events.
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Men should be paid more in tennis. At least in golf the competition is the exact same for both sexes.
 
I think a lot of equality and pay differences between mens and women's sports has to do with "supply and demand" along with limited available time.

In general, men's sports have higher ratings on TV which in turn means sponsors are willing to pay the bigger bucks, etc. On the 2nd issue, people have limited time available to watch sports so most people have to prioritize what they watch or do. Both women and men's golf are considered fringe sports to the average sports fan. NFL, MLB, and Footbul in Europe are king.

I bet if the PGA could they would play the FEDEX Cup before the NFL & college football season starts because I'm sure that kills the ratings for the tour championship.

In college sports, men's football and basketball pay for all the other sports teams.

On the looks issue, a excellent example of how that matters for women players is Anna Kournikova. I know she never won a major...she might not have won a tournament...but she has made millions...just because she looks like a model.
 
Sorry, i meant on the professional level. And certainly don't mean to say that any jo-schmoe can play on the women's tour. I meant there's a reason why there's men's track and field and women's track and field, or the WNBA and NBA, or the PGA and the LPGA. Like i said, i'm pretty sure there are A LOT of women (not just LPGA) that can hand me my butt in golf.

LeeB18 said:
When I read " There's a reason why we don't have men competing against women in most sports." in deleebar's post (I seem to be having problems with the "reply with quote function"),

I thought of KellyBo and Buckjob winning the competition at this year's Outing. It was the great skill of both players - gender had nothing to do with it.
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tgtt said:
Men should be paid more in tennis. At least in golf the competition is the exact same for both sexes.
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So would that mean in events that they both play best of 3 rather than best of 5 for some, they should be paid the same?
If one wants to make the case for workload, it cant be done, because that is a limit set, and half the matches dont go that far. Athletic competitions normally do not wage their competitors by the hour.
 
I agree, the requirements for size and strength in golf isn't what it is in let's say basketball. But it still is a factor. If it wasn't, why aren't the women competing with men? There is no denying that the women in the LPGA have skills to spare, but it's also about skills and physical ability. I know this is stating the obvious, take Tiger and put him in the LPGA and take InBee (hottest LPGA player) and put her on the PGA. Who wins more? Who has more top tens? Who has more majors? There's an obvious difference so why do we have to pretend like there isn't? It has nothing to do with deep talent (while i agree with your point on that). You just can't compare men and women's golf on that professional level.

SharkHat said:
I'm sorry, but the "men are bigger and stronger" arguments in this thread just don't really work in my opinion. Strength and size are just not the most important factors in golf athleticism.
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JB said:
So would that mean in events that they both play best of 3 rather than best of 5 for some, they should be paid the same?
If one wants to make the case for workload, it cant be done, because that is a limit set, and half the matches dont go that far. Athletic competitions normally do not wage their competitors by the hour.
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Limits are irrelevant. I believe the average men's match is twice that of the women's. And, if the women bring in as much revenue as the men in tournaments where they play only 3 sets then they absolutely should be paid the same. If they bring in more then they should be paid more as well.
 
tgtt said:
Limits are irrelevant. I believe the average men's match is twice that of the women's. And, if the women bring in as much revenue as the men in tournaments where they play only 3 sets then they absolutely should be paid the same. If they bring in more then they should be paid more as well.
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Many non major tennis events are only 3 sets for men. I think men's and women's tennis being more equal has a lot to do with how it is staged. During majors they both play at the same time, on the same courts, with the same rules (no smaller ball, no shorter tees), with the same fans going back and forth between matches...and the same tv coverage. That generates a lot more intrest...because it's the same event. You can't really do that in golf.

I know they are both playing Pinehurst next year, which is great, but it's not the same as tennis, where they are doing it at the same time.
 
This is a tough subject. I think that in the end it's all money driven (as far as how much money events bring in from sponsors and attendance) and not really a gender thing. The same topic comes up within college athletics when deciding which programs get what amount of money.

It sucks that it comes down to whether or not your sport brings in money, as I do feel bad for the women who work just as hard, if not harder, than some men at their craft. I mean look at the year that In Bee Park has had, and then I look at how much money she has made. It's kind of sad that with the year she's had, she wouldn't even crack the top 20 on the PGA tour money list for this year.
 
I had a thought today while I was at work. public relations people tell you there's no such thing as bad press. that's one of the few things that women sports lack. your intentions as an athlete are always to be on the right side but at the same point drama and turmoil in all of those kind of things to draw attention also. all of the things that happened with Tiger and his injuries or his infidelity all of that draws attention and it's easy to sell an item when its in the lime light.

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JB said:
So if its a distance thing for you, I would assume you would much prefer to watch Bam Bam Lincicome play to that of Luke Donald, Zach Johnson, Brian Gay and a host of other PGA Tour players?
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toughestsoldier said:
I had a thought today while I was at work. public relations people tell you there's no such thing as bad press. that's one of the few things that women sports lack. your intentions as an athlete are always to be on the right side but at the same point drama and turmoil in all of those kind of things to draw attention also. all of the things that happened with Tiger and his injuries or his infidelity all of that draws attention and it's easy to sell an item when its in the lime light.

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Still would like to hear your thoughts on the above.

As to the second, TW was massively famous before the incident and if anything has taken a hit since.
 
Im going to say not so much List or Linicome but Phil,Dj ,Rory Woodland. Like I stated earlier it's not the guy for the Nile is the driver hits the guys who did the 270 yards 3w in to the pin and shots like that that will impress me. What i miss is Tigers old 2i stinger.

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By the way I appreciate everybody being calm collected and factual and not making this just a big pissing contest like i could have.
 
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