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Course rating and handicaps.

ironinsand

ironinsand

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Has anyone encountered this issue?

The purpose of the Course rating/slope/handicap system is to provide you with a handicap that adjusts to the difficulty of various courses. Here in CA I noticed something odd about the relative course ratings between Woodley Lakes and Tierra Rejada.

Woodley is flat, open with few serious hazards, no water really in play, shallow traps and flat greens. TR is uneven, with lots of water, blind shots, multi-level greens and deep traps. Does anyone have any thoughts on why the course ratings for them are virtually identical?

Woodley from the white tees is about 6500 yards and has a course rating of 70.5. TR is the same yardage from the blue tees and is rated 70.6.

My handicap at Woodley would be an 8 and at TR only a 9.

Images of Woodley Lakes (the photog had to go away from the fairways to get any shots over water)…
http://tinyurl.com/m3onrz


These are some images of Tierra Rejada.
http://tinyurl.com/mwxgtz


You can see from the layout one is far more challenging than the other.

The reason this is an issue is when someone who posts many scores on a harder course plays in a tournament on an easier course they blow away the players who don't play the harder courses. But the handicap system is supposed to adjust for the difficulty.

Iron in sand
 
course rating is mainly based on distance. Slope rating should account for variations in difficulty. The harder course should have a higher slope rating. Say 140 vs 120. Then, the way the system works, if you play at the hard course, your differential gets brought down (by 113/140), so if you play to a 15 say, your adjusted differential is about 12. Then when you go to the easier course, you're supposed to adjust that to get a course handicap which might be 13, so at the harder course you're a 15, but at the easier course you're a 13 and vice versa.

That said, I suspect the slope rating system doesn't make up all of the difference.
 
I've played both and do see a difference between the two. If one removes driver from their hands on many of the holes and just play target golf,TR won't be as difficuilt.That's what I've found with my experiance.

What I do not like about TR is haw drasticly different the front and back nine are.By far the front is harder due to all the blind shots.

Try and play the Front conservative and see what happens.
First hole,I dont go for it in two.Second is a simple par 3.The third hole I just hit a 3 wood to the top and hit a mid to lorn iron.The par five, Ijust play to reach in 3 and don't play around with that false front. The nest two hole I just hit hybrid to remove trouble off tee.The par 3 is tough for how short it is.Just play for the middle and get your par.
The down hill elevated tee shot,I just hit mid iron safely and hit short iron into green.#9 i also remove trouble by hitting 3 wood off tee cas depending on where yo land the lie can be a pain.Hit mid iron to a lay up spot and just try for par and hope to sink putt.

I hope this helps for the next time.
 
I know Woodley farily well. I grew up in No Hollywood and played there regularly when I was first starting to learn the game. Very flat, easy course. I don't know Tierra Rejada at all. One factor can be wind. I recall Wooley can get somewhat windy, so that is taken into consideration when courses are rated.

I agree with Ty's post. IIRC, Woodleys' slope rating is very low. But yes, I've found that when two players with similar handicaps play together, the one who plays harder golf courses usually has the advantage.
 
ShortButCrooked said:
I know Woodley farily well. I grew up in No Hollywood and played there regularly when I was first starting to learn the game. Very flat, easy course. I don't know Tierra Rejada at all. One factor can be wind. I recall Wooley can get somewhat windy, so that is taken into consideration when courses are rated.

I agree with Ty's post. IIRC, Woodleys' slope rating is very low. But yes, I've found that when two players with similar handicaps play together, the one who plays harder golf courses usually has the advantage.
Click to expand...

The wind is much more a factor at Tierra Rejada since much of it is on top of hills.

A one shot difference between the two courses is a joke. I know how to win more tournaments at my home courses (Encino/Balboa); I just need to start posting 5-6 scores a month at Sterling Hills, Tierra Rejada and other 129-140 sloped courses.

Here's a shot of number eight at TR. The tee is not far from where the camera is. The fairway (right) runs diagonally and is about 120 yards below you. You have to carry that valley to reach the fairway. Go over it and you are dead. See any level lies out there? That's #1 on the left with two water hazards along the left side.

4756.jpg
 
The rating and slope system is supposed to take these factors into account...


1. Topography - Difficulty of stance in the landing area and the vertical angle of shot from the landing area into the green.
2. Fairway - The effective width and depth of the landing area, which can be reduced by a dogleg, trees or fairway slope.
3. Recoverability and rough - The existence of rough and other penalizing factors in the proximity of the landing area and the green.
4. Out-of-bounds - The existence of out-of-bounds in the proximity of the landing area and around the green.
5. Water hazards - The existence of water in the proximity of the landing area and around the green.
6. Trees - The strategic location, size, height and number of trees.
7. Bunkers - The existence of bunkers in the proximity of the landing area and around the green.
8. Green Target - The size, firmness, shape and slope of a green in relation to the normal length of the approach shot.
9. Green Surface - The contour and normal speed of the putting surface.
10. Psychological - The mental effect on play created by the proximity of obstacles to a target area.

I i S
 
That looks like a nice course. What city is it in? No question, it is much more difficult than Woodley. Woodley at 70.5 from the middle tees is too high. And it sounds like the 70.6 for TR is too low.
 
Look at the "Bogey Rating" of the courses:

To find the number, the bogey golfer should take the slope rating, divide it by the set factor (5.381 for men, 4.24 for women) and add that to the course rating.

That will give you a good target score for a bogey golfer, and is a truer yardstick.



*the formula is taken from an article that appeared in Avid Golfer magazine a few months ago, I photocopied the page.
 
ShortButCrooked said:
That looks like a nice course. What city is it in? No question, it is much more difficult than Woodley. Woodley at 70.5 from the middle tees is too high. And it sounds like the 70.6 for TR is too low.
Click to expand...

It's near the junction of the 23 and the 118. Simi Valley I believe.

Its fun to play. I played there last weekend for $60 (after 1300). The kind of course where you need a few extra balls. The greens run at 9 and are perfectly consistent.

I i S
 
Gummi Bear said:
Look at the "Bogey Rating" of the courses:

To find the number, the bogey golfer should take the slope rating, divide it by the set factor (5.381 for men, 4.24 for women) and add that to the course rating.

That will give you a good target score for a bogey golfer, and is a truer yardstick.



*the formula is taken from an article that appeared in Avid Golfer magazine a few months ago, I photocopied the page.
Click to expand...

No need to do all that math. That's what the slope rating does for you if you have an established handicap index. The slope rating and your index should make all the required adjustments.

The bogey rating is used in the calculation that produces the slope rating. Slope is a number representing the relative difficulty of a course for bogey golfers compared to scratch golfers.


It all sounds good, but I just think they don't rate the courses very well.
 
You've gotten a lot of answers so since mine probably wouldn't help anyway we'll just leave it at that!

I will say, "Welcome Back" though! Long time no see!
 
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